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1923 Buick 44 Roadster Bows


Brian T. S
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Hello, new to this forum.

 

I need some help.

 

I'm trying to figure out if I have the right size bows, when I lowered the bows they were catching on the bolts for the bow saddles and the top side behind the doors versus by passing and laying on the trunk. This is for Buick 1923 44 Roadster. See attached photos.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Brian

 

 

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Brian,

    New steam bent bows are stored and shipped with wires to keep the ends from expanding.  I know that steam bent wood bows also tend to get wider at the ends as the wood ages.  This may just be a case of your wood bows drying out and expanding.   I suggest you might try soaking the wood and wire the ends together with a turnbuckle in between to gradually bring the curves back to fit as the wood dries.  Repeat as needed until the bows stay fitted.

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Brian, 

   Can you lower the top and take a photo of where you see the interference.  That looks like the correct bows and socket assembly.  Do your have your top clamps?  I am wondering if you are lowering the top lower than it should be?   I do not believe that the top assembly should be resting on the painted surface (correct me if I am wrong). 

Attached are 1923 model 44 top clamps photo from the parts book.  Also the"seat iron stud". (BE is black enamel, NP is nickle plated) that hold the top clamp or top rest.  I am not understanding why the listing is calling out a rear seat iron stud and a front seat iron stud for a model 44?  These iron studs screw into metal brackets that are held into the wood around the rear toneau.  Do these dimensions check with what is on your car?

Notice also that the last bow does drop below the seat iron stud when you look at the clamp picture.     

 

Welcome to the forum.  You have a beautiful car.  I have many of the details for installing your replacement top and back window.   

 Hugh

IMG_8438.JPG.3b2c5a58791066b7ef48e647e8ff22e8.JPG79312838_RearSeatironstud-BEisblackenamel.45short.JPG.37b0a4760f6fea8a088855969538c87f.JPGIMG_4519.JPG.668256f06586261751c48d3e3aa3f6fb.JPG

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 1923 models 44 and 54.  Perhaps the strips on the toneau did not come on the model 44?  I am also understanding that the top clamps were not kept outside the car during normal driving.  The top clamps and the "seat irons"  were stowed until needed.  From the 1924 factory photo (fur coat).  Notice how the canvas covers the sides of the top at the rear and there is no bolt sticking out, or clamp.  Other photos from 1924 and 1925 show the same thing.   Hugh 

1923-44.JPG.1704e7edfd94f33ae09db72a70923ba1.JPG1923-54.JPG.7f5a59e79d1e9ea03a14c21813df1038.JPG1919474522_1924Buicksalesphoto.jpg.214fb411855e8614b2e6fffcc0d61c27.jpg627551056_1925Model54.jpg.43beccc3c3433eeb33cb2171e65da814.jpg1721072709_1925-44Buickroadster.jpg.4b6d4e7b3f4f54767eebfaaa8bdeaccb.jpg1501031917_HaroldLloydandwifeBuick1924-54or44.jpg.784a91f470a4194d5af78c494c090908.jpg

   

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Hugh,

 

Thanks for this post and the previous! Also, thanks for all the great research! I'll try to get down to the car and take some photos with the  bows in the down position. I don't have the top clamps or seat irons but can have my brother make the seat irons with the info you provided. If you know where I can find some top clamps please let me know. Additionally, any information and assistance with getting the top re-done will be greatly appreciated. I'm excited to get this car completed and start enjoying driving it.

 

Very respectfully,

 

Brian

 

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Hugh:

 Thanks for posting the photos of the other roadsters. I have some of those saved and had shared some with you. I particularly like the one with Harold Lloyd admiring the 1924-54 Sport roadster.

The 1924-45s and 55s were originally only available in Maroon. Evidence later indicates that they were also available in the 1925 color Sagebrush green. Probably when Duco became available. Apparently, tops were also available in black as opposed to the ads that show only Burbank cloth.

207122664_s-l16002(2).jpg.45c867ecda60da8e695fc935e084969a.jpg

1253816134_1924-buick-model-55-sports-touring-automobile-21.jpg.f887898d97f0cb8b1804f471f1fa7c64.jpg

This is the only restored 1924-55 I have seen in the correct colors. I have never seen a 24-54 in Maroon but there was a 24-54 at out Nickle tour in 2016 in the Sagebrush green.

 And note. No pins sticking out at the rear of the tub. I have seen many cars have a loop done in the top going over the pin. 

 Brian:

 I do have many photos of the top treatment on the 1923-54 roadster. If you need a guide for yours.

DSCF1270.JPG.cfdca689f261078be0e213f8d746b99d.JPG All original 1923-54 at Hershey 2011.

 

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Brian, 

    The pictures really help.  Will also want close up's of the top pivot attachment.  You may be missing some spacers that spread the base of the pivot out so that the last top socket does not touch the body.  Something does not look right with what ever fastener is in the top rest hole.  

 

Hugh

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Hugh,

 

Thanks, I'll send a picture, there is no spacer at the pivot point. I believe a spacer on each side would probably fix the problem. As far as the fastener in the top rest hole; when I look at other 44s there is some sort of grommet with the fastener. I am kinda wondering if the bow clamps are an add on. Additionally, we had to rebuild the metal hardware as it was completely rusted out. The cones for the receivers for the bows were completely gone so I may need to straighten/bend them a little bit. All the wood frame had to be replaced on this car so there could be some anomalies with the body. This is both good and bad. The new wood will probably last forever due to modern coatings but there could have been changes in dimensions of the car through that process that is haunting me now.

 

So glad to get this help, wish I would have joined prior to starting this project.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

 

 

 

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These are some photos of the 1923-54 we agreed to buy back in 2010.

With the top lowered and the sockets resting in the clamps it appears that they would appear just a bit above level.

2035152177_1923BuickRoadster_3.jpg.6a4016045911919b93f3dae8774a6a92.jpg

This photo is an example of how NOT to lower a top!! Never attempt to lower the top with the gypsy sides still snapped on. The sides are to be unsnapped and folded in toward the rear window.

1344845494_1923BuickRoadster_6.jpg.c0cba86ac739730c53c109943f3e786e.jpg

 On my 1925 Buick touring. I had to add a spacing collar at the rear pivot because whoever redid the top long ago did long "Lift the Dot" pins instead of snaps to secure the gypsy sides.

DSCF1321.JPG.117666544eda854a21624dd948b5e235.JPG DSCF1322.JPG.8f074fd6c7746fd533b66951cba46f09.JPG

 Note the damage done by laying back the top without unsnapping the Lift the dots.

DSCF1340.JPG.c4f2ed358a2ae7117b40109f4cc2bd1d.JPG

 

1934001978_DSCF1317-Copy.JPG.0fb63d96723363fc31ae23b9ca91f475.JPG 

Also, they had no rests or clamps, so the top was laid in a heap on the spare tire. Causing more damage on the body bead and the top fabric.

DSCF1273.JPG.168a0aa0c0bc38c925fac9ac7d785ad3.JPG

 The original model 54 at Hershey in 2011. 

DSCF1273.JPG.9a27f7fbda10a1936d4eaa55c642faaa.JPGThe top clamp pin cap appears to be an oval head screw with an aluminum collar/washer/ferrule. I know the pin on my cars are 7/16" X 14TPI.

DSCF1273.JPG.168a0aa0c0bc38c925fac9ac7d785ad3.JPG

1673073151_Buick-rood-kl-2-gr1.jpg.fedb759cf215248b535726ecb7e80a92.jpgNote in this photo they had an oops with the gypsy side and the clamp!

 What a shame after this beautiful restoration. The sides have hidden snaps as there is an extra layer of top material to cover them.

 

Edited by dibarlaw
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Great pictures, Larry -- it's really interesting (to me, anyway) to see the original side curtains on that unrestored Model 54!

 

DSCF1273.JPG.168a0aa0c0bc38c925fac9ac7d7

 

Also notice the shiny spot on the paint just below the snaps where the quarter panel wraps around the decklid area.  I'm assuming that was caused by the fabric rubbing while driving with the top down.

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