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Upcoming auction in Va. 1915 Model T


pkhammer

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Same weekend as the Mid Atlantic Pre-War Swap meet in Luray, Va. May 13-14. 1915 Ford on the 13th and heaps of petro collectibles on the 14th. Come a buy it so I don't. 😁

 

http://www.larryswartzauctioneer.com/in-person-auctions/?az_feed_pos=%2F%2Fwww.auctionzip.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fauctionview.cgi%3Flid%3D3657630%26feed%3D129%26group%3D0%26state%3D%26kwd%3D%26zip%3D%26category%3D0%26nojava%3D0

 

 

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PK:

 Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I will be at an antique radio meet at Kutztown PA. Thursday and Friday. I am going to try and make the Pre-War Swap meet on Saturday.

 Checking out the auction photos it is interesting that the 1915 T has a straight rear fender. I have only seen rounded ones on the 1915 and up.

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The straight top rear fenders look to be either 1913 or 1914 style. I would have to see the inner skirt to know which. It is "possible", although often argued as not possible, that a very early 1915 touring car could have had carryover 1914 style rear fenders. Problems producing the new style 1915 open car bodies resulted in significant delays in production. Limited numbers of runabouts were built during December of 1914 (way less than a hundred!), and about two thousand total in January of 1915! The touring car follow with similar numbers about a month later. It was March of 1915 before production of the new style got up to usual Ford numbers. Production of the 1914 style cars continued into April of 1915 to supply dealers with cars to sell. So, although officially, the 1914 style cars continued getting the 1914 style rear fenders and gas headlamps, while the 1915 style cars were being assembled with the new 1915 style rear fenders and electric headlamps? It is "possible", and some empirical evidence used to exist suggesting that it did happen at least a few times? That SOME FEW 1915s may have left the factory with the 1914 rear fenders, and maybe a few 1914 style cars with 1915 style rear fenders. IF (big IF!) it did happen, it was anomalies, not normal production, and most hobbyists do not agree with keeping them that way. Hence "some empirical evidence used to exist".

It is more likely that someone replaced the original fenders with these because they didn't know any better, or simply liked these better. I know a few people that have done that.

Era photos showing 1915s with earlier rear fenders are rare, but have been seen (I have seen three or four good ones). The argument still stands that even those could have been replaced very early for some unknown reason.

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Don't think anyone can just "assume" those 14 style fenders came with the car when built. They could have been later replacements made anytime during the life of the car. 

Terry

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Terry B, My only point on the fenders is that there may have been a few that left the factory that way. However, most likely, the original fenders were replaced at some point with the wrong ones. IF (big IF again) those were the original fenders? The car would likely have several other very early characteristics. The earliest 1915 style open cars were notorious for some of them having the last of the twelve rivet rear ends, some had the 1914 style brass throttle and spark quadrant, some had a very short term spark and throttle quadrant used only for a few months and found on both the earliest 1915 style cars as well as the last of the 1914 style cars being manufactured at the same time. That quadrant was stamped steel, with "teeth" folded up around the outer/lower edge! Those I have only seen a few of in all my years of searching and looking (I would like to find one for my February 1915 runabout).

Earliest 1915 style open cars also often had transitional oil side and tail lamps that look very much like the common 1915 brass trimmed lamps, but nearly all parts of them were actually quite different (I have the tail lamp for my February 1915, although, even in February that tail lamp might be too early?). No records exist detailing the oil lamps used for those couple months. But many era photographs do exist indicating that they were used for some while. A few other early variations of tail and sidelamps were used on the early closed body 1915s which began production around September of 1914. Those variations were discontinued about December of 1914, before the open body 1915 styles began to be actually produced.

Four rivet bracket front fenders were very common on early 1915 open model Ts. That is another thing that hobbyists replaced in early restorations in the mistaken idea that they were making the car "more correct".

 

The car in this auction looks very interesting. I wish the photos were a lot better to see more details. I would be very curious to hear what it sells for?

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