34 Buick clutch issue

[Rayp34]

Hi all, I am seeking some advise re the clutch release bearing on my 34 Buick series 40. The bearing is sintered carbon. With the clutch adjusted such that it works correctly the carbon release bearing is still in slight contact with the clutch pressure plate side . The friction generates lots of heat. I don’t think this is normal. 
anyone have any suggestions please?

[F&J]

22 minutes ago, Rayp34 said:

carbon release bearing is still in slight contact with the clutch pressure plate side . The friction generates lots of heat. I don’t think this is normal. 

Correct, it should not touch the pressure plate with clutch pedal in "up position". It will self destruct if run like that. There needs to be a gap.

 

There is a return spring that pulls the carbon bearing away.  I just sold my 34 model 40 parts, so I don't know if the return spring is near the bearing or if it is on the linkage. 

 

One more thing to check if it does have the spring still working; make sure the linkage is not sticking due to rust or lack of lube at pivot points.

[Rayp34]

Thanks F&J, I have no return spring on mine and can’t see where one could be fitted, also. no mention of a return spring in the service manual. Hoping someone can advise where the return spring should fit. A photo would be great if anyone can help

[F&J]

2 minutes ago, Rayp34 said:

if anyone can help

There are many prewar Buick owners here, but they might see it quicker if you post this in the Buick forums, under "pre war Buick".  It's further down the page of the complete list of forums. 

 

Also, If it feels like it does have some spring return "feel" as you use the pedal by hand, it could have another issue "IF" you are forced to adjust the clutch that tight to the plate, to eliminate grinding with car not yet moving.  If a clutch disc is wet from oil or grease, the trans can grind when trying to go into first or reverse when it is adjusted with proper gap.

 

Adjusting it too close can sometimes stop that grinding, but the bearing won't last.

.

 

[Kornkurt]

Most of these carbon T/O bearings have a grease zerk on them.  Keep them well greased.  That will help on clutch shudder and T/O bearing wear.  There should be a good picture of the clutch linkage assembly and any return springs in a Buick Master Parts Book from the era.  

[Buick35]

I'll try to look at my 35,40 series tomorrow and see if I can take a picture.

[Rayp34]

Thanks Konkurt and Buick35,

Really appreciate any help on this.  I have greased the T/O but it gets so hot after about 10mins the grease just burns off.

[Buick35]

Hi,Here's a picture I just took of the clutch spring,I hope it helps,Greg. Please send a picture of your car.

[Rayp34]

Thanks Greg. I can see I should have a return spring. I have fitted one now using a brake drum return spring but I still have the same issue. There seems to be insufficient travel of the clutch release arm.

 

[Rayp34]

Could my problem be due to wear or incorrect adjustment of the clutch release fingers? Any thoughts please?

Ray

[F&J]

10 hours ago, Rayp34 said:

Could my problem be due to wear or incorrect adjustment of the clutch release fingers? Any thoughts please?

Ray

Finger wear, or fingers out of adjustment would be somewhat uncommon.  Because you had enough adjustment left to have the carbon face touch the pressure plate with pedal not depressed, I would not think the fingers are worn "too much".

 

Trying to diagnose this car is difficult by not being there in person.

 

We need to go back to first post where you said :

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2022 at 5:31 PM, Rayp34 said:

With the clutch adjusted such that it works correctly

Tell us several things:

What was the exact problem that made you decide to adjust the clutch rod ?

-Were the gears grinding when you pushed the clutch pedal down to try to go into first or reverse after starting the engine? 

-Did the clutch ever work properly since you bought the car, OR did this problem start recently, or got worse over time?

- I'm trying to find out if this car always had some issues with the clutch or grinding gears.

 

I saw something in your pics.  It sure looks like a weld bead was added to the "J-hook" that pushes the fork, that I have circled on the pic below . 

To me, if that really is a weld and not just grease build-up, it could mean 2 different things:

-A former owner who restored the car, while painting the trans, bell, etc, maybe he saw a bad worn spot and simply welded it up.

-BUT, it could be that the former owner was also chasing a clutch issue, and tried building the hook up.  We simply don't know. That's why I asked if your clutch ever worked perfectly.

 

if it never had a perfectly working clutch since you bought it, OR if this problem started to show up later and got worse with time, my first thought that is far more common, is that there is oil or grease buildup on the fiber clutch disc. That is IF the gears try to grind as you try to get into first or reverse after starting the engine. If it was grease/oil, it likely will grind far less if you tried to put it in 3rd gear after starting the engine.

 

This is why I asked the questions at the beginning of this post. We need better info/wording on what the initial problem was....as in what exactly was it doing before you felt the need to adjust the clutch?

 

 

[Rayp34]

Thanks all. I believe I have solved the problem but haven’t taken it for an extended test drive yet. It’s been raining here for the past 2 days.

The hole in the arm that the adjustment pin goes thru has worn into a very elongated hole. The adjustment pin was riding in the lower part of this long hole, thus reducing the travel of the clutch release lever. I made up a washer with a tab to fit in this worn hole so that the adjustment pin is held in the upper part of the hole. This gives the release lever all the travel required to pull the carbon throw out bush clear of the pressure plate.

[Rayp34]

This together with the addition of the return spring seems to have solved my problem.

Ray