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'25 Nash Touring - back to the road we go, with a twist!


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3 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Fortunately, the Kellog style ignition switch is a more robust unit for rebuilding as opposed to the DELCO pot metal units.

 

It is at that, I am happy to have the Kellog switch! Unfortunately I do have a pot metal speedometer to contend with, it once moved but has swelled into a solid block, LOL. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I've had a devil of a time finding something comparable to the original top end oil line... 1/8" is too small, 5/32" is too big and everything else I could locate had such thin walls I was dubious about it holding up. 

 

In the end I was able to find some brake line and ferrules at a vintage Citroen supply company, it's 3.5mm which is just a tad under (.006") the original funky Nash size. 

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I hoped I could snake the new line in from the bottom end with the valve cover off the top but it was not to be, too many bends. I removed the pushrod cover and was able to get the old line out where I solved a minor mystery...

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When the engine was rebuilt the oil line to the top end was positioned incorrectly. The crank counterweight for #4 cylinder was beating it every time the crank went around. With that much flexing going on it's no wonder the line failed at the ferrule. When the new line gets here this weekend I'll install it and rotate the crank to verify there is no contact. 

 

The line itself T's off from the center main bearing, sneaks up a small void between the crankcase, then heads up through an oil feed trough for the lifters before ending in the rocker shaft oil distribution/filler tube. 

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I got my carb kit in the mail so I've been picking at that between other jobs. 

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The float is catching a bit on the back wall of the bowl so I'll have to shave it a bit for free movement. I attribute this to the arm it attaches too, it's bent slightly. I'll dig into this later when it's time to do final assembly and coat it with fuel proof dope. I did sand the bowl slightly to make sure it was flat and take out a few old dings.

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The original choke spring was broken and only remnants remained so I fashioned a new one out of piano wire. It took a few tries to get it just right but it's working again.  

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I've been picking away at the wiring for the ignition as the supplies show up. I noticed some differences in the way the ignition switch was wired vs. the factory wiring diagram, this may account for the voltage drop I was seeing at the coil... I'll know more on that when the switch is reinstalled, testing on the bench as the factory wired it shows no voltage drop. The original wires did show some drop but I never found any particular wire I could point to as the culprit. The new wires are of course reading better than the old when tested so there should only be improvement. 

 

The new loom arrived and I put it to good use (found an oil can too!)...

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Since the horn pulls its power directly from the starter lug and I was in the neighborhood I did that small harness also.

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I tucked the new fuse panel up under the dash out of the way. Old loom and lighting wiring on the left, new ignition loom and wiring on the right above the fuse panel.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I've found a few goodies for the Nash too...

 

I found this dog bone on Epay and it was used but no abused, matched the condition of the car well. A short time later ran across this large size Boyce meter also in similar condition to the car. I got the two of them together and it looks good, I'll have to change out the face for a Nash or Boyce one but it looks right at home and is fully functional.

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I have a thing for these accordion luggage racks so I had to pick one up for this car also. I found a heavy duty one, it weighs a ton but fits the size of the car well. I'll fill it with a suitcase or something after I restore it. It's missing one rivet but that's an easy fix.

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Last but not least I found this spotlight with a mirror. I liked the setup of the mirror kind of sticking out like a lollypop so I snagged it. It will need a restoration as well, I small fun project for a lazy day.

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I'm hoping to start her up in April, so far we're on time and on target. Michigan still has some winter weather to spit at us so no rush. There is the Ford F250 to get back to shortly though so I don't want things piling up, lol.

 

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1 hour ago, r1lark said:

Nice work. Impressed with the spring you made for the carb!

 

Did you purchase a full wiring harness from a company, or are you making it all yourself?

Thank you for the kind comment! I looked around for a spring but couldn't find one. Bobs Auto had one that was close but must have been for a slightly different Marvel carb as it would not connect to the choke arm on my 10-89. I needed one that would poke through a hole in the arm with enough left over to bend a tab on it. The only other one I found just had a "U" shape that slipped around the arm and tension held it in place. I chucked up a slightly undersize drill bit in my lathe and wrapped with wire 3 turns while holding tension on it, when released it sprung back a bit to the correct size. From there it was a matter of bending the ends how they needed to be. 

 

I am making the wiring harness myself. I did buy the cloth wire from YnZ, they have a wide selection and it's very nice quality and easy to work with. I upgraded my crimpers for this project to a pair of Channel Lock brand cutter crimpers, way better than my old multi use tool. They have a wide crimping area and crimp 95% of the connector length at once. Price was well worth it.

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Made in USA too, awesome!

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, r1lark said:

Thanks for posting the Channelock crimper. I have several other brands, but have never been very happy with them. Will get a pair of the Channelocks.

It was a tough choice, lots of options out there! I though about going for the ratcheting type but gave these a try instead. 

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Can you post a picture of a good crimp made with those? I'm in the market for a pair of crimpers, but have not looked into those ones yet. The Channellock factory is about a half hour from where I live, so I'm quite interested.

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On 3/30/2022 at 12:15 PM, ryan95 said:

Can you post a picture of a good crimp made with those? I'm in the market for a pair of crimpers, but have not looked into those ones yet. The Channellock factory is about a half hour from where I live, so I'm quite interested.

No problem....

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I tested the oil gauge a while back an it's OK so I put it back in the cluster. I also made new wires for the ammeter and put it back in the dash. The gas gauge (in center between oil and amp) is a mechanical unit and will be renovated later when I drop the gas tank.

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I pulled the oil pump this afternoon to clean it and give it a once over...

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Right off I noticed the bailing wire on the relief valve.

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Once I pulled the pump apart and cleaned it up I set to work on the relief valve.

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It's a pretty simple affair, however, the machining was was not so good. With the valve closed I blew into it and it leaked pretty good. I chucked the plunger into my drill to smooth and polish it's face. I then used some valve grinding compound and gently mated the body and plunger together until I got nice contact all around. 

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Once complete I cleaned it all good and assembled it with a cotter pin (no bailing wire) and set it aside for installation. No leaking this time when blowing into it, holding pressure now.

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I moved onto the gears and they looked good... at first!

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I cleaned up the old gasket material (I felt like the gasket was too thick when looking at it from the outside) and tried to assemble it dry to check the fit. I noticed there was some up a down play in the pump shaft before disassembly so I was thinking there was excess clearance between the gears and face plate. The face plate rocked on the pump body like a teeter totter when I set it on. I found the driven gear in the pump was not sitting right, the hole drilled in the pump body is not parallel with the drive shaft hole resulting in a cocked gear that sticks up in the center of the pump. The plate will never fit right without a thick gasket and even then the clearance isn't right in the pump. It's hard to get a pic of but you can see it with the eye easily.

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You can see the left gear sticks up more towards the center, the drive gear sits flat with no issue. I have two options, find a new pump or have the current pump bushed and trued to correct the issue with the driven gear. Not much luck finding a pump today, will look into machining this week if no pump can be had...

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Revee Enterprises in Cazenovia, NY. did the bushings on both my Buick Standard and Master oil pumps. They were both pretty sloppy. The Standard pump is steady at 22lbs.now.

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The bronze driving gear off of the camshaft was replaced with a better one. But the coupling pin on the pump shaft was just about worn thru. I replaced it with a piece of drill rod.

 

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21 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Revee Enterprises in Cazenovia, NY. did the bushings on both my Buick Standard and Master oil pumps. They were both pretty sloppy. The Standard pump is steady at 22lbs.now.

 

This will be my route most likely, I've got feelers out now for the machine work. The pump will never be right unless the driven gear is corrected.

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I decided to replace the other wire conduit that runs out of the firewall today. This one is well hidden, it pops put the top near the ignition conduit and runs down behind the vacuum tank to junction panel that feeds the headlights and tail lights.

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The wiring itself is very simple, one wire for the tail lights and two for the headlights (high/low beam). The whole thing in less than 3' long, took longer to get to it than to make a new one. The old one was dry and crunchy...

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The new one was built and installed easily, clipped back into place and the vacuum tank remounted over it. A previous owner had put some crude rubber strips around the U bolts holding the vacuum tank to the firewall in an effort to secure it better I suppose. I did not reinstall them, they looked funky and served no real purpose.

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When I inspected the car I found the parking brake out of adjustment. I pulled the floorboards to get to it and attempted to adjust it but found it wouldn't work properly. 

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I found that the threaded clevis bolt that regulates the band adjustment was locked up and not letting the right side band move. The culprit turned out to be this thin washer. When I disassembled it originally I found the washer bent, I figured that was the issue, pounded it flat again and reinstalled. Nope same issue. 

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I noticed when I slid the washer over the threaded clevis that it would catch really easy, which is probably why it was bent. No idea if it was factory after 97 years but I thought a thicker washer might cover more of the threads and avoid sinking into a groove and locking up the assembly.  Old washer on left, new thicker one on right...

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I had these thick washers left over from another vehicle and the OD was right but the ID was a bit too small. The thickness was right on though...

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Some careful work with a die grinder and the ID got to the right size no problem...

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Once I reinstalled the assembly with the new washer and adjusted it there was no more catching, both pads now move freely and without issue. After the test I buttoned up the assembly with cotter pins and locknuts. The parking brake now engages at 1/3 and locks up at 1/2 travel. 

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I was unable to find a local machine shop that was interested in straightening out the bore of the driven gear in the oil pump so I sent it off to Egge Machine for a quote, they should get it Tuesday so well see what they say.

 

I also got news that the new venturi block is complete and on the way for test fitting so that meant it was time to get back to the carburetor...

 

I did some measuring to get the height of the low jet in preparation for setting the fuel level in the bowl. From everything I've read I could find 1/16" below that jet is where you want the fuel level to be. I found my optimum number looks to be 0.858" below top edge of the bowl.

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I transferred this to the inside of the bowl with pencil and then made a light mark with a dremel on the far side interior so I can see it when it's mounted on the car. So far so good!

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I then set about testing the float dry to make sure it had it's full range of movement. I could tell I had an issue as it wouldn't drop back when I pressed down on the valve side to raise it. Since it was catching on the front of the float near the top of it's travel I had to shave it back at a bit of an angle to get it to rise to it's maximum height and drop back freely. 

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Once shaved the float worked great, no catching and I couldn't blow air past the fuel valve when seated. I pulled it apart in preparation for coating with alcohol proof dope to prevent any sinking due to ethanol laced go juice. 

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I coated the float by itself once and let it dry. I then assembled it and coated the float again as well as the brass screw/retainer and end of arm it attaches to. The dope dries pretty fast, not much time needed between coats.

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I took care of the last bit of cleaning up the ignition this afternoon.

 

The coil looked pretty sad, you could tell somebody had just spray bombed it poorly. 

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I carefully applied some paint stripper to the metal bits as well as used a dremel wire brush on the fine bits and some lacquer thinner on the bakelite body to remove the paint.

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I cleaned the assembly after stripping in preparation for painting. Looking better already!

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The mounting grommets were shot too so I buzzed over to the hardware and found some new ones.

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Painted with new grommets...

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Once I had the mounting hardware and resistor cleaned up I put it back on the firewall and hooked it up to the new wiring. Looks clean now, all the contact surfaces have been cleaned, no rust and paint to mess with conductivity. 

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I installed the fuses I picked up earlier in the week for the new fuse panel and started checking things with a multimeter. The coil is now getting the full 6V it needs instead of the 4-ish volts it was when I inspected it, good deal. I had the wife hop in and roll the Nash over with the ignition on while I pulled #1 spark plug lead for a test. My reward for the day was a nice hot blue spark, much improved over the inconsistent yellow spark at initial inspection. Getting closer!

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The new venturi block came in... This is a project headed by a fellow forum member who is working with a fabrication shop to produce these. I saw his posting about it and inquired about reproducing the 111-3 venture in my Marvel 10-89. I sent him the measurements a bit ago and he sent me one to test fit once it was made.

 

The fit is good, snugs up right tight to the carb ID. 

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Once the carb is assembled the low speed jet fits in the venturi well.

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I also installed the new float...

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The carb is done except for fabricating the brass keeper that goes over the felt seal for the metering rod, just need to set the float height when it's back on the Nash and open the fuel tap.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Just now, dibarlaw said:

Lahti35:

 I am anticipating my spacer (venturi) blocks from the same source for both, my 1925 Buick Standard 111-2. and Master 111-3. I am anxious to hear how your engine is running after all is assembled.

I will definitely let everybody know, take some video and such. Hopefully the oil pump work is speedy so I can button the engine back up this month.

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I talked to Egge today and the guy who does the oil pumps is on vacation for 2 weeks so they'll check it out when he gets back. 

 

In the mean time I'll keep picking away at more bits...

 

The dash lights were D.O.A. when I got the car. Cracked wiring, all the under dash wiring is bad, and paint overspray galore.

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New wiring with tinned ends like the original.

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Stripping the paint...

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Cleaned!

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During the stripping process I found that these were painted black with white in and around the bulb recess area. I masked off the plated socket and put a coat of white on first.

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Once the white dried I masked off the bulb recess and painted the body black, with the wires installed they are ready to go back into the cowl over the dash.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I got the luggage rack blasted, painted and installed... The only real way to work on it is extended, otherwise it covers a lot of itself with itself so you can't get into the nooks and crannies. It was a treat fighting with it but I won in the end.

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I needed to do the ignition timing on the Nash as I had no idea where it was as there are no timing marks (or any marks) on the flywheel...

 

The procedure per the manual is to rotate the crank to TDC on #1 cylinder during the compression stroke with a special tool that goes into the spark plug hole. You retard the timing all the way at the  steering wheel and adjust the distributor to fire plug #1 at TDC. 

 

The Nash didn't come with a crank and I needed one to verify the timing. I snagged some 7/8" and 3/8" round stock and set about making one. I bent the handle first so it fit my hand.

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Next I measured side to side to see how much room I had without rapping my knuckles into the front apron for the next bend. My old Victor torch proved it's worth again as it made short work of heating the bar to bending temperature.  Once the bends were made I drilled it for the little cross bar that engages the snout on the crankshaft pulley. With the 3/8" cross bar installed I drilled that end of the crank deep enough to catch the bar and plug welded it in place. 

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Once the crank was built I was able to rotate the engine and do the timing procedure. Everything checked out just fine timing-wise, we're good to go. 

 

Quickie job of the day was installing the dash lights and wiring them up to the fuse panel. One item closer to the road!

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I preparation for installing the carb I chased the threads in the manifold with a tap...

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Sprayed some copper coat on the gasket...

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Fabricated the missing part for the carb out of some brass stock to keep the felt packing around the fuel valve...

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Installed the carb at the tail end of the work session, hooked up all the linkages and double checked operation of each. Hopefully it will require minimal messing with to get it to fire initially. Last thing to do will be to set the float height just before attempting a start.

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In other news I got a pic of the new oil line running to the top end. It's now routed through the small hole in the block made for it instead of snaked through a lifter opening incorrectly. The crank now turns without hitting it also. 

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I got the call from Egge today, the oil pump is done and now on it's way home, should be here mid next week.

 

I'm kind of stuck for a bit until the pump shows up so I decided to work on the spotlight.

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I pulled it apart and found the switch/bulb socket assembly to be toast, somebody got after it with some channel locks in an effort to tighten the assembly up but mangled it badly. I'll have to come up with a new switch and socket for it. 

 

I carefully removed the name plate and then blasted the bits in my cabinet.

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I found a bunch of newspaper shims behind the mirror, interesting stuff. There are some tidbits about "the war" so I would assume WWI, I'll return them back to the same spot during reassembly.

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I painted the parts with some high build primer for some sanding to take care of minor isolated rust pitting and hung them up to dry. I'll sand them this weekend when I get a chance. 

 

In other news I've been working on fixing a leaking oil pan. 

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Someone had smeared RTV around the seam in an effort to stop it but we al know how well that works. 

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I picked up some flux and solid wire solder and will practice this weekend on some scrap metal before attempting the real deal. I got some tips after posting in the technical section that have been helpful since I've never soldered steel. We'll give it a whirl!

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Now I see what you were wanting to solder. That kind of soldering is a little different than body soldering. I taught myself how a couple weeks ago for repairing the Moon's gas tank. Find 50/50 lead solder and get some Oatey 30011 flux. Rather than smearing it around like you do with  70/30 body solder, the 50/50 wets nicely and will flow wherever you take the heat. I had to order mine online. I imagine that the hardest part for your oil pan will be getting it clean enough. If it is just soldered together you may want to remove the neck to get everything clean. This will also let you flux it better. Scribe around it before you remove it so that you know where exactly it was.

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11 hours ago, ryan95 said:

Now I see what you were wanting to solder. That kind of soldering is a little different than body soldering. I taught myself how a couple weeks ago for repairing the Moon's gas tank. Find 50/50 lead solder and get some Oatey 30011 flux. Rather than smearing it around like you do with  70/30 body solder, the 50/50 wets nicely and will flow wherever you take the heat. I had to order mine online. I imagine that the hardest part for your oil pan will be getting it clean enough. If it is just soldered together you may want to remove the neck to get everything clean. This will also let you flux it better. Scribe around it before you remove it so that you know where exactly it was.

That's exactly what I've got for solder, I will have to pull the casting to clean. I don't think I'd ever get it clean enough without pulling it apart. It's riveted and soldered from the factory.

 

4 hours ago, viv w said:

I would take the sump/oilpan to a reputable radiator repair shop and ask them to resolder it for you. The radiator guys solder stuff everyday and know what flux and solder to use.

I wish we had a good shop around here but I can do it better at home than the so-so work from our local shop, they've stopped doing good work on vintage stuff for a long time now. Loss of skilled workers or loss of interest in vintage stuff... tough to find good repair shops anymore. 

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10 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

I wish we had a good shop around here but I can do it better at home than the so-so work from our local shop

You got this. Best part of soldering work (and doing it yourself) is if you don't like it you can do it again until you do.

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How was that attached originally? Are there cracks?

 

I would be more inclined to use hard solder (sliver braze) or bronze, unless the existing joint is already soft soldered. If it is, the old soft solder would interfere. With that drain plug in the spot it is, I would guess this needs to be more mechanically solid than you would typically get with soft solder like 50-50, especially if there is damage like cracking. Good luck whatever you do.

 

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On 4/22/2022 at 10:18 PM, Bloo said:

How was that attached originally? Are there cracks?

 

I would be more inclined to use hard solder (sliver braze) or bronze, unless the existing joint is already soft soldered. If it is, the old soft solder would interfere. With that drain plug in the spot it is, I would guess this needs to be more mechanically solid than you would typically get with soft solder like 50-50, especially if there is damage like cracking. Good luck whatever you do.

 

It's riveted on and soldered. No cracks I can see, I think it's just fatigue from age. I'm going to clean it all off and fill it with some thinner and see if I can hone in on the exact leaking spot.

 

On 4/23/2022 at 8:34 AM, alsfarms said:

Have your received your oil pump back yet?  I am curious to here the method used for the repair.  Was it tested before coming home?

Not yet, Egge called me Thursday to say it was done so it should be here this week. Their website states what they do to it (clean, repair, test). They should have had it easy with my pump, I had already cleaned it and rebuilt the relief valve, all it needed was the driven gear shaft bored straight so the faceplate would sit flat. We'll see how it went!

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In amongst painting my garage I was able to get the battery cut off switch completed. The master switch is located on the frame next too the battery but I wanted the on/off located elsewhere, tucked under the dash. 

 

I had this old army surplus choke cable in my parts stash.

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Cleaning cosmoline off of anything sucks but it's got to be done! Brand new under the gunk.

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I found a nice spot under the dash that I can reach without getting in the car. "C" stand for cut off now!

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It snakes out the firewall and down under the floor boards.

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Since the battery is under the passenger side the cable needs to make a left turn. I secured it to the sill with these half clips I found. They worked great and are very secure, no flexing.

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The cole switch is a nice heavy duty unit but the handle needed to be reworked for my application. I fabricated a lever to replace the knob so I could actuate it with the cable.

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Once the unit was painted and installed it worked great. Not having to open the hood to access a switch or cut a hole in the seat riser for easy access was worth it.

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