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'25 Nash Touring - back to the road we go, with a twist!


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Things are moving much slower due to some family illness but I did get a 2 hour chance to pull the transmission apart this AM. Removal wasn't too hard to do with my cherry picker, supporting the tranny and allowing me to pull it backwards and lower it to the floor.

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I expected to see some evidence of metal on metal contact but found nothing. No dings, dents, or shavings.

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The friction disc is in OK shape, I'm going to have it relined since it's out. These old discs are held together with 3 brass staples and so is this one (you can see them at 1 o'clock) so it's been some time since it was redone.

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The throwout bearing carrier looks to be toast, too many years without lubrication. It's heavily worn on the inside at both ends allowing it to do the hoochie coochie side to side, it's so bad the threaded end is worn nearly knife thin. 

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The inner diameter looks something like this now...

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The pins on the throwout bearing actuating arms have eaten into the outside due to the side to side motion, along with some minor wear from the pressure plate arm collar...

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I thought about welding it up and also having it sleeved but with all those oil galleries on the ID I don't think it would fly. I've already sent inquiries out to Ft. Wayne clutch and the machine shop one town over. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't been working on the Nash much, mom passed away so I've been dealing with that. I've forced myself out into the garage a few times to get the outsourced work going but that's about it over the last 3 weeks.

 

The machine shop is fabricating a new throwout sleeve for the clutch...

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I spent an hour this AM pulling the flywheel for a trip to be resurfaced this week. Came off pretty easy, no drama. Notice anything?

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I think I may have found the source of my potential leaking rear main. There was a lot of oil on the shelf at the base of the block inside the bell housing with a clear trail leading up to the camshaft cover plate. That little 3 bolt cover plate is pumping it out like a demon.

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A close inspection reveals some blue rtv (or course!) and what looks to be a nasty gasket.

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One thing most of the seals on this engine share is they are junk. RTV where there should be paper, paper where there should be cork and poor surface preparation all around. I think I'm going to leave the rear main alone, correct this and see what happens.

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I have been there with the loss of parents.  It tends to be (rightly) all consuming.  My condolences at a difficult time though I applaud you for seeking some emotional shelter doing something with the car that is fulfilling.  All the best!

Eric 

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Thanks guys, means a lot.

 

It's been a rough year, first with my blood clots/ongoing recovery and now this over the last month. We're all trying to adjust to life without mom and recover from the events of the last 3 weeks. I was hoping to have the NASH done and take her for a spin but alas it was not to be, hold your loved ones dearly!

 

I'm hoping to get some serious work done on it over the upcoming holiday but that depends on if the machine shop gets done and if I get my friction plate back from Ft Wayne. I dropped the flywheel off at a local shop Monday to get resurfaced. It wasn't in bad shape but since it's out...

 

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Sorry to hear of your moms passing Jason, I offer my thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

I hope you and your wife are ok, and you and the rest of your family are able to take time to honor your mom during this new season of life.

Maybe the Nash challenges can be a welcomed mechanical distraction amidst the emotions and logistics and such, and maybe even provide appropriate focused reflection time for your health and thoughts of your family.

Mario

 

 

 

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I talked with Ft Wayne C&D Tuesday. They called me up because their book didn't have the friction material thickness listed for the Nash. They were hoping I had it, Noooooope! Me neither, lol. The tech was very knowledgeable and after some talking about the condition things were in we both agreed on a thickness that should work. Great folks to deal with.

 

In other news I had discovered that the throwout sleeve is NOT supposed to rotate independent of the transmission input shaft, it's only supposed to slide forward and backward while LOCKED to the shaft via a large woodruff key... that someone forgot to put back in at some point. No wonder the clutch was making noises, with the ends of the sleeve wallowed out it would allow the pressure plate fingers to wander back and forth independently causing general chaos. 

 

The machine shop is still working on the new part, hopefully I can get it soon. They'll call when it's ready, I'm not prone to bugging craftsmen.

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In other other news I've been working on cleaning the brake equalizer assembly and driveshaft I removed prior to the trans removal.

The u-joint at the transmission came off without much fuss. The whole driveline is caked in the typical petrified ancient grease/dirt combo.

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Took a few sessions to get it clean but I won in the end...

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The u-joint itself is a heavy duty affair, still tight after all these years. It's greased via a zerk that pumps down a hole in the splined end of the driveshaft into the u-joint housing. 

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Once things were clean I painted the bits and installed the graphite rope into the spring loaded cover that allows for the movement while rotating. 

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The 1/4" packing just pushes into a grove, easy stuff. 

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Assembly is nothing complicated, the split retaining ring is also held in place via the same spring. Hand pressure is all that is required to assemble. The opening contains a set of 3 discs, 2 leather and one steel to act as a grease seal for the splined driveshaft. 

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I can relate to every single problem that Lahti35 has run up against.  It just seems like that if previous owners would have paid more attention and taken better care of these automobiles back in the day we wouldn't be having all of these problems right here and now.  The vacuum tank issue is exactly what I am looking at right now.  Instead of trying to push a pin back into those ears I am going to use a miniature stainless steel machine screw and carefully double nut the end so as to hold things in place and be a permanent fix.  This gentleman is after my heart with the way that he is addressing the details.  Excellent work my friend!

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  aka Doo Dah America

AACA Life Member #947918

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De-gunking continues... Some use of the wire wheel got the driveshaft cleaned up...

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Then painted...

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I also got my flywheel and pressure plate back from the shop next town over. It's an oddball pressure plate and he wasn't sure if he would be able to do it. He thought he might be able to grab it on the ID as long as it laid flat, which it did. Sitting on his table it was only .001" off.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I spent some time cleaning up the parking brake drum and mechanism today...

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The drum itself had some scoring and was coated in a fiendishly hard, gravel impregnated, dried grease. It really gave the braided wire wheel a run for it's money. It was so hard when I tried to go after it with a screwdriver it fooled me into thinking the interior was a rough casting for a bit.

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Once I had the concretion removed It was time to deal with the working surface, not pretty for sure!

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I was able to chuck it up in my lathe and face the surface. Some coarse sand paper on a backer followed by some finer paper gave good results.

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Paint followed and it was set aside for reassembly.

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After an afternoon siesta due to the heat and humidity I got back on it in the evening to do some heavy degreasing. The parking brake assembly wasn't as bad as the drum but it was right gunky too. 

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After some preliminary cleaning to remove the worst of it I broke it down and did each piece. One of my favorite bits of restoration is peeling back the layers of time to expose casting marks. Things haven't been this clean since assembly at Kenosha. It's interesting to see that the machined surfaces themselves are somewhat rough and not finely finished, no need on these parts I guess. It adds some nifty character to the old girl. The linings themselves are OK, and will stay in place on the shoes.

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Since I was filthy and it was starting to get dark I jumped on the transmission case/bellhousing quick. The days are getting shorter, adding a bit of urgency to the project in the process. I do enjoy a nice late summer evening working in the garage though, wish it would stay like this! 

 

The trans case was leaking from every where it possibly could. The gaskets I pulled off were just thin paper with poorly prepared surfaces. I hit the mating surfaces with the braided wire wheel until they were spotless. Extra care will be taken upon reassembly to seal a good as humanly possible. Tomorrow will be final cleaning and painting of some of todays parts.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Wow! can I ever relate to what is being done here.  The brake shafts on the rear axle of my Buick were so gunked up with dried petrified grease that one wheel had not had brake action in decades.  This old dried grease and other crap does not give up without a hard fight.  Hang in there Jason, you're making some seriously good progress.  Been where you're going and it does get better as time goes by.  I had to keep telling myself that or I could have sat down and cried a few times.  There had ought to be a number that guys like us could call and talk to other members of the support group for mental encouragement - there were several times that I could have used that service.  Hang in there my friend, you're doing great.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

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21 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

One quick question for you - the U-Joint looks almost like what is on my Buick.  When I finally got things cleaned up the name 'SPICER' was stamped into the body of the unit.  Would your joint happen to be SPICER also?

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

My u-joint is not marked, nothing. Must be a NASH unit!  

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I had a bit of time this afternoon so I dug into the leaking rear camshaft cover. The cap was stuck to the bearing shell well, took a bit of force to pry it loose. More blue rtv and a paper gasket underneath.

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I believe I found the reason for the leak. One of the holes in the gasket was oblong and looks like it went right to the edge of the sealing surface, the rtv somewhat filled the void. The gasket looks home made and somewhat crude.

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The cover was somewhat rough on the backside so I sanded it flat, taking no chances on this. I'm 98% sure this was the major leak and not the rear main seal. The way the oil dripped from the bottom of the bellhousing did not indicate a major rear main leak upon close examination, one can hope!

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I reassembled the camshaft cover with anaerobic sealant on super clean surfaces so it should be good. I then installed the flywheel back onto the crank. Nice to see things going back together. 

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Been busy cleaning transmission bits for painting here and there also. Degreasing followed by a soapy wash and set to dry by a fan. I've found some interesting previous repairs during the takedown. Several seals made of string wrapped tightly around shafts, the tractor mechanics have been busy!

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Ft Wayne called today and my clutch disc is done. Probably be back by the end of the week. Things are movin' along...

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, JO BO said:

Have a 1926 Special Six parts car touring ..wonder if the parts are interchangeable  if so you should come and pick it up for just $500.    Or someone else could do a speedster project. 

I don't think many of the parts interchange, certainly not the engine. The advanced series has a different layout than the special. I wish they were the same, life would be easier! Thanks for the offer!

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I think this is one of the best threads on this forum. Your work is exactly what so many don't get...the thoughtful and careful repair of a machine that has obviously suffered from a lot of ham-fisted "mechanics". I'm partial to pre-1930 cars and so few of them are getting this sort of attention today. Good work!

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4 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I think this is one of the best threads on this forum. Your work is exactly what so many don't get...the thoughtful and careful repair of a machine that has obviously suffered from a lot of ham-fisted "mechanics". I'm partial to pre-1930 cars and so few of them are getting this sort of attention today. Good work!

I don't take that lightly, especially coming form you. I've seen the great work you are capable of in your thread. Many thanks for the kind words!

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Still cleaning up parts...

 

The throwout bearing was locked up, it had no purpose since the throwout bearing carrier was missing its key and spinning on the shaft. I figured it was toast but a dip in some solvent got it moving a bit so I left it in the can of thinner for a few days hoping it would come back to usable. I took it out tonight and it was moving well. A few blasts of carb cleaner in the I.D. seam blew out a bunch of schmutz and got it turning great. Some light oil after a final thorough cleaning yielded a perfectly serviceable bearing, good deal!

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After cleaning a bunch of bolts and washers I moved onto the input/output bearing housings. These castings are setup with shims for the bearings to set the clearance for each. The front housing had one shim, the rear housing had a shim or two... or nine! Thick ones, thin ones and everything in between, lol!

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Spent an hour this AM on some odds & ends. 

 

Laid out a transmission shifter cover on some cork, the old gasket was paper and had ceased keeping oil in the transmission long ago...

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I ordered some 1/4" felt last week for my '26 model T gas tank, also put it to use in the Nash where the pedals and steering column comes up through the floorboards. I'm sure there was something there originally but it's not there now... Pretty big open holes around those pedals, no need for that.

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Both turned out great, the slits in the floor board felt will have to wait until I get the pedals back on the tranny for accuracy.

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I've got to pick up an O-ring to seal the reverse idler shaft from leaks, the rest of the transmission bits that breech the case can be sealed with anaerobic sealer. I'm looking forward to oil staying where it belongs for a change!

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I was hoping to have the clutch brake done today but USPS has lost my rivets for the time being... In the mean time I did get the casting dressed and the friction material cut. 

 

This nasty thing was still working through all the abuse that had been heaped upon it by the out of control throwout bearing carrier.

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I had cleaned the casting some time ago but noticed today that there was quite a ridge on the face where the friction material goes that wouldn't let it sit flat.

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I was able to file it flat and increase the contact area substantially. I didn't go crazy, just enough to smooth things out.

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For the friction material I had a choice. I could use oil resistant woven stuff or a composite material not rated for oil. I do have concerns about oil contamination from the throwout bearing but I opted to go with the composite. I was concerned the woven material might fray and the original looked like a sort of brass impregnated composite anyway.

 

I found a person selling composite discs very close to my requirements. All I had to do was put a hole in the middle and countersink the holes for the rivets when they get here...

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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USPS delivered my rivets today😀

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I had an hour so I got to work and installed the friction ring on the now painted casting.

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A few nights ago I cut some new leather washers for the U-joints where the splined driveshaft goes. They sit under a sheet metal retainer of the same shape. The front U-joint had both washers but they were pretty loose. The rear U-joint was missing its leather washers. I used some heavy leather and a sharp hobby knife to cut them out, no problems. 

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I also ordered some goodies for under the hood. New hose clamps, radiator hose and a fan belt to replace the ancient ones currently in service. I have some 600W oil on the way for the transmission and rear end also. 

 

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Holy ventilation Batman! What is going on here now...

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The plan for this weekend was to replace the radiator hoses and clamps because they are old, gnarly and not matching. The original clamps as seen in the owners manual look like the typical GM split type. The current hoses had some Ideal type adjustable units throughout. 

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Once I drained the coolant to change it I cut the hoses off and found a cute repair job on the water pump neck...

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I'll have to deal with this now while it's accessible, I've got feelers out for a new pump or at least the cover with the water neck. No idea what that impeller looks like underneath, it would be good to have a spare. 

 

I had planned to pull the radiator shell for polishing but found I couldn't remove it without the radiator coming out too. The neck on the radiator was bent forward causing the motometer to lean towards the front some, that turned out to be an easy fix. Some tapping around the neck on the top tank straightened it no problem. Then I got to looking at the radiator close and ruined my afternoon.

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It appears to be the original round tube radiator that has had some repair work in the past and some current issues. There is some damp under the top left tank area and some crusty growth around the old pinched and soldered tube on the right. I've got a big decision here, run as is or send it to the brassworks for a $$$$$ recore with a 18-24 week wait. Winter is coming so now would be the time. I want a reliable car, not worries about a leaking system. 

 

I hate to walk out of the garage with a bee in my bonnet so I spent some time polishing the radiator shell (somebody did a so so job of re-plating it back in the day, not the best prep job with some pitting not filled). It turned out well, solid driver quality. 

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I also polished the motometer assembly, the base had a bit of rash but it did shine up pretty good. You can see the before and after on the dog bone, left side is pre-polish and right is after.  

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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I also set about replacing the gear oil in the rear end this weekend...

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Pulling the cover was uneventful and the gear lube in there was fairly recent. It had good color and a "low" odor, definitely not the typical rancid funk of a well used and aged product. Things looked good inside, no metal chunks and a good wear pattern. 

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However as with the rest of the car, laziness had struck here also. The cover gasket looked to have been used over again and the flanges/bolt holes were bent or pulled in from over tightening.

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Speaking of overtightening... What's this!

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Somebody beheaded a bolt at some point. I tried to use a punch and rotate it counter clockwise but it was a no go. Out came the welder to attach a washer and nut. Laying under a car and trying to weld a small nut over a broken stud where you can't reach it laying down, and you can't sit up, and you can't see the target makes for an interesting weld job, lol.

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I won in the end, threaded hole ready to go in spite of the shameful welding. I couldn't find an old bolt in my stash so I lathe'd the modern marks off a new grade 3 bolt and stripped the zinc coating in weak acid as a replacement.

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After I cleaned up the mating surfaces on the axle and the cover I took the bends out of the cover's flange and tapped the bolt holes flat. 

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I cut a new gasket and put a thin layer of Ultra Black on each side, installed it and lightly tightened the bolts a bit to pull it in but not squish out all the sealer. I let it dry overnight and this AM I tightened the bolts down.

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Along with my new radiator hose and clamps I got some 600W lube for the rear end and tranny. UPS did a nice job of bashing the box around making the bottles leak some. I had a mess going before I even tried to fill the axle. Like my grandfather use to say: "First thing you do when you work on a car is pour some oil on the ground and roll around in it some, then you can go to work".

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Filling the axle was uneventful, slow and boring. It is 600W after all, lol!

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Just found this thread. It’s one of the best I have ever seen here. My condolences on the loss of your mom. Great car and it’s typical of what I usually end up working on. Great catch on the oil line. All your repairs are very well done. You take your time and keep to the details. Also, your not afraid to dig in and do the ENTIRE job without looking for a short cut. Bravo…….you can work in my car anytime……….and I would have faith in all your work. How you service things is exactly the correct approach. Take your time, do it right. The correct fix is often more time consuming and expensive, but in the long run your car will be reliable and correct. I have always wanted a early 30’s big Nash, as my father drove one during the war. I’m certain your car will bring years of enjoyment. You have achieved my very rarely given three thumbs up. 👍👍👍

 

Best, Ed.

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12 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

Holy ventilation Batman! What is going on here now...

IMG_20220925_115825267.jpg.506fd9ebc19c6b25a533683ebc0a42ab.jpg

 

The plan for this weekend was to replace the radiator hoses and clamps because they are old, gnarly and not matching. The original clamps as seen in the owners manual look like the typical GM split type. The current hoses had some Ideal type adjustable units throughout. 

IMG_20220924_134351944.jpg.37fde6280f2ecf42ea3747a8b8d3e3bc.jpg

 

IMG_20220924_134400219.jpg.e719244bef96bd2ba29e91faf08d8bf9.jpg

 

Once I drained the coolant to change it I cut the hoses off and found a cute repair job on the water pump neck...

IMG_20220925_133323563.jpg.8f897cf9a8042395918cbb08c8a2b4be.jpg

 

IMG_20220925_115806183.jpg.5b8cc8ed15aa359578a32f63bd267722.jpg

 

I'll have to deal with this now while it's accessible, I've got feelers out for a new pump or at least the cover with the water neck. No idea what that impeller looks like underneath, it would be good to have a spare. 

 

I had planned to pull the radiator shell for polishing but found I couldn't remove it without the radiator coming out too. The neck on the radiator was bent forward causing the motometer to lean towards the front some, that turned out to be an easy fix. Some tapping around the neck on the top tank straightened it no problem. Then I got to looking at the radiator close and ruined my afternoon.

IMG_20220924_161415227.jpg.99f5f3b52257e8d15f947fff202b6f03.jpg

 

IMG_20220924_161349277.jpg.f04bc5cb373330c4a53127f1677ca650.jpg

 

It appears to be the original round tube radiator that has had some repair work in the past and some current issues. There is some damp under the top left tank area and some crusty growth around the old pinched and soldered tube on the right. I've got a big decision here, run as is or send it to the brassworks for a $$$$$ recore with a 18-24 week wait. Winter is coming so now would be the time. I want a reliable car, not worries about a leaking system. 

 

I hate to walk out of the garage with a bee in my bonnet so I spent some time polishing the radiator shell (somebody did a so so job of re-plating it back in the day, not the best prep job with some pitting not filled). It turned out well, solid driver quality. 

IMG_20220925_164155619.jpg.683909ea40efd0b456b8f2a74302b2a4.jpg

 

I also polished the motometer assembly, the base had a bit of rash but it did shine up pretty good. You can see the before and after on the dog bone, left side is pre-polish and right is after.  

IMG_20220925_164131089.jpg.66817d0bcf079926a70dba196fc5fab8.jpg

 

 

Lahit35:

 In time for the Halloween are we opening another mystery box of terrors? On my 1925 Standard it was first that the engine always overheated even after the Evaporust treatments, back flushing, radiator flushing and checking by the last radiator man in our region. He pronounced the honeycomb good. But there were some small sections cut out/ pinched off. Still overheated. The only cure was a re-core with a modern core from Canada.  No overheating in the last 7 years!

Not satisfied wjth the frustrations of the 1925 Standard fights, I bought a 1925 Master that has turned out even more problematic. The radiator in it was a hack job from the 1970s. 3 lbs of braze on the bottom of the shell.

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A brazed patch on the bottom tank where the  rusted away original cast iron hose mount casting went thru the tank. The adapted truck modern core was leaking and the bottom tank was also cracked.

DSCF7889.JPG.4dcf660b53241206b8b4b1cf94a95e57.JPG Puller I nade to straighten out the filler neck hole.

 When I was first going to send out the radiator for recore I still had to straighten out the top tank filler neck area. Someone had used a B-F-Hammer to make sure the re-core would fit back into the shroud. Since I coud not use these tanks I secured a 1926 radiator the was to be a good unit......NOT. At least the tanks were good. But I still had to straighten that top tank.

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 The newly recored radiator with modern core.

thumbnail_DSCF7975.jpg.09f2b415c0358245bc52b1547294727a.jpg

 Ufortunately I could not source a re-plateable 1924-1925 Master shell. So I painted the 1926 shell.

thumbnail_DSCF7980.jpg.411f2fc3abac70c4c699041835164c81.jpg

 From what I understand my local go-to radiator man has finally retired and gave up his shop.

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Edited by dibarlaw
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1 hour ago, dibarlaw said:

Lahit35:

 In time for the Halloween are we opening another mystery box of terrors?

Probably past time, things have been going well! I love how all these issues lurk under stuff until the lights get turned on lol. Might need to import some garlic and a cross or two just to be safe.

giphy.gif

 

I think I'll be ok with the cooling passages inside the block, no sludge or gunk in the radiator or inlet outlets to indicate issues. Luckily my shell is in sound condition, though I wonder if that is the cause of my bent filler neck. It was a tight fit in the opening and somewhat off center. I'll have to put it back in the shell now that I have straightened it for a test fit.

 

Less is more so I'm not touching anything that's not broken.... yet, lol. I hope my radiator turns out as nice as yours! I haven't seen any cooling issues with the Nash yet just the degraded water necks and radiator issues.

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Just found this thread. It’s one of the best I have ever seen here. My condolences on the loss of your mom. Great car and it’s typical of what I usually end up working on. Great catch on the oil line. All your repairs are very well done. You take your time and keep to the details. Also, your not afraid to dig in and do the ENTIRE job without looking for a short cut. Bravo…….you can work in my car anytime……….and I would have faith in all your work. How you service things is exactly the correct approach. Take your time, do it right. The correct fix is often more time consuming and expensive, but in the long run your car will be reliable and correct. I have always wanted a early 30’s big Nash, as my father drove one during the war. I’m certain your car will bring years of enjoyment. You have achieved my very rarely given three thumbs up. 👍👍👍

 

Best, Ed.

Kind words Ed, thank you. I just try to do the best I can in my little wood shack.  I've enjoyed your threads for some time, interesting stuff and I love your humor. 

 

The "three humbs up"! Yowza, you made my morning😁

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So I've been watching videos of the Old Car Festival at greenfield village from this year and past. I've been to GFV and the Henry Ford but never to the OCF. Watching videos of the event show me how much I have been missing, sniff sniff.

 

I've decided to set a goal to drive the Nash from home to the OCF in '23 ("if they'll 'ave me" as our British cousins say). I'm a bit over 100 miles away so no crazy road trip here but far enough away to make it a wee bit daring, a bit over a mile for every year the car has been around. This gives me 11 months (among other projects) to get her ship shape. Nothing would please me more than to successfully roll into the parking lot after a 3 hour tour. The gauntlet has been thrown! 

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  • Lahti35 changed the title to '25 Nash Touring - back to the road we go, OCF or Bust in 2023!

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