Saw This In Owego, N,Y. - cycle car

[Dandy Dave]

Testing them. I would do an olms test on the secondary winding. To do this you need to connect to the plug tower lead to the lug with the yellow wire. With an early system like this you should get a reading of 3 or better I would think, may even get 8 or 9. If you get an open reading the coil is shot. If you get a closed reading the coil insulation has failed, and it is shot. The secondary winding is not internally grounded in the coil box like common model T Ford type vibrator coils, or common round coils. These are considered closed circuit systems. The A-K Unisparker is an Open Circuit System, and that is why it has all the extra posts to connect to. The primary winding should not read anything for olms but should be connected. If it is open, then there is a problem. Also, these systems used a bank of 8, -1.5 Volt dry cell batteries. This equals 12 Volts. To do a bench test I would connect a 12-volt battery to the + and - leads. Connect a spark plug to the plug lead and ground it to the yellow wire on its base. Connect a wire to one of the timer posts. Not Both. Then with the other timer post just flick the wire across it momentarily, and if the unit is good, you should see a spark jump across the plug electrodes. Doing this completes the circuit and excites the secondary winding. Also, I have found that these units do have a condenser that is internal in the coil box. It is connected to the wire that goes to the points which is where it should be. It is not accessible unless you tear the coil box apart which may destroy it. Good luck fellows. And may the force be with you. 🙂 Dandy Dave.         

Edited March 6, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Jim Mead]

Hello Markus, that looks like a Model T Ford Unisparker to the right of your spare coils, no?

[Jim Mead]

Thanks Dave. Two things, I don’t think your explanation of how to test the primary winding is fully explanatory, Which Markus and I need, as in which wire goes where. Second, I’d be careful about Voltage. I have had a lot of these coils, both with integral switches and plain, some cleary marked 6 Volt and some 12 Volt. I presume the distributor doesn’t care. 
And I’ll second the thought that the Unisparker points, and or spark plug spark, is so fast and so minimal (hot?)

that it can’t be seen by the naked eye in daylight. I wasted an evening and well into the night once trying to test mine until reading that warning in an ancient Dyke’s Manual. 

[Jim Mead]

And going back to the O-We-Go, Oldcarfudd has it right. It’s a belt, not a chain. 7/8” “Linkbelt”, originally harness maker made 1 1/4” Leather V block belt.   How I found 198 ft of NOS Linkbelt is a story unto itself…..

[Dandy Dave]

33 minutes ago, Jim Mead said:

Thanks Dave. Two things, I don’t think your explanation of how to test the primary winding is fully explanatory, Which Markus and I need, as in which wire goes where. Second, I’d be careful about Voltage. I have had a lot of these coils, both with integral switches and plain, some cleary marked 6 Volt and some 12 Volt. I presume the distributor doesn’t care. 
And I’ll second the thought that the Unisparker points, and or spark plug spark, is so fast and so minimal (hot?)

that it can’t be seen by the naked eye in daylight. I wasted an evening and well into the night once trying to test mine until reading that warning in an ancient Dyke’s Manual. 

OK, I'll borrow another photo and post where the leads go. If these units are marked 6 or 12-volt then go with that as a battery source. The internals will be the same principal with a different number of windings. Agree that you may not be able to see the points move, but you should be able to see a spark at the plug. Dandy Dave. 

[Jim Mead]

Thanks Dave, thats a big help to us all. Agree you can see the spark at the plug, but it’s dang small and blue/white. My Mantis mini rototiller does the same thing. Electronic ignition. Again, the Mantis people tell you it can’t be seen when you call. 
Don’t ask me how I know. 
 

Sort of belies the advantage of the “shower of sparks” boasted of by buzz coil ignition advocates. It only takes one…….

[Dandy Dave]

Here. I can't make it any simpler. Do it inside in low light. Not outside on a sunny day at high noon. When the wire is flicked a spark should be seen when it is pulled away breaking the current. Make sure the switch is on Start or Battery. Dandy Dave. 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Jim Mead]

Perfect, thanks Dave…..

I’m a pretty good hammer mechanic, but I’m light on electrical skills. Your comments about open vs. closed ignition coil construction was helpful 

[Dandy Dave]

Marcus2 could hook up the loose timer he has and do the same thing as the loose wire providing the points are good and adjusted correctly. Just spin it by hand to make and break the signal. Dandy Dave.

[markus2]

Thank you again for all these recommandations !
I also found this on YouTube:
 

 

 

[Dandy Dave]

There you have it then. Just like I said. Dandy Dave. 

[markus2]

There are no mentions on any Atwater box about voltage, so I will start with a 6v battery, I guess.
Let see how it will sparked !
Many thanks again for all your comments and help.

[Jim Mead]

Markus, note that I started a new thread on Monarch motors. The first post gives some lubrication information. 

[Dandy Dave]

Found this info also. It says the voltage should be stamped on the box along the bottom edge. Looks to be on the right side on the two top units. Dandy Dave!

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Jim Mead]

I’ve seen the stamping in both 6 and 12 volt. Thanks for confirming and location, Dave !

[markus2]

 

[Jim Mead]

Wow ! Great to see another Owego built Monarch running !  Markus, I have yet to get up to Norwich to take a photo of the Harley-Davidson timer we are using on the O-We-Go that I promised you. 
Sad week here in that Willis Ives’ Grandson, Richard “Rich” Ives, has died at age 78.  Rich was a very active and dedicated volunteer for our youth in Baseball Little League, our High School Music Department and especially the annual High School Musical. Rest in Peace. 
Willis Ives was the principal behind the Ives Motorcycle Corporation. Makers of Reliance and Monarch Motorcycles and Monarch Cyclecar engines. 
 

[West Peterson]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:45 PM, Dandy Dave said:

Always glad to help out. Actually all you needed was a Thomas mechanic as they used the A-K Unispark system also to start it and then were switched to mag to save the batteries.

 

There is something to be said for the patina on older cars that have not been fully restored. They also turn a lot of heads when they are at a show or on tour. The more I know the better I like them in their working cloths. Dandy Dave!

I agree, but I'm not a fan AT ALL of fake patina.

[8E45E]

As seen in the link in this thread: 

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/40-us-car-makers-you-might-not-know/ss-AA10qus0?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9a8b34f66f2e477e804aa92d233c0e81#image=29

 

Craig

[oldcarfudd]

Wes, in general I agree with you about fake patina.  But it has its (limited) place.  Several years ago, someone on the west coast uncovered a 1913 Oakland that had been garaged for decades.  The upholstery was cracked but useable (probably with a couple of gallons of linseed oil), the paint was all crazed, but it was mechanically sound and clearly a survivor, and the new owner wanted to keep it that way.  Only two problems: one fender was totally missing and one wooden wheel was rotted out.  The fellow had a new wheel and fender made, but he couldn't leave them bare and a fancy restoration would have looked ridiculous.  So he had the new parts aged to look like the old ones, an used the car as a driver.  Totally appropriate, in my opinion.

[F8L]

I have acquired a monarch cycle car engine and it looks like it was repurposed for a different application and has been modified with tractor parts 

 

I will most likely build a motorcycle frame for it over trying to delve into the cycle car world 

 

but definitely prefer to find a more correct ignition and functional carburetor

[Layden B]

2 possible carbs:

Schebler Model B , one updraft and one side draft   $250 each