Chris Gamm Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Unable to find anything on the web that looks like this engine (scroll down engine picture is last). Closest was the 1915 Buick, but head is different. Holley Bros model H carburetor, Delco ignition, looks to be a modified Model T pan, aluminum block and transmission. Any help is much appreciated Edited January 19, 2022 by Chris Gamm (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Looks like a modified Model T oil pan. Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Is it a path finder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) Pathfinder Series XIII A Five-Passenger Touring 1913. Claimed to be the last surviving Pathfinder. This car has a 281 cubic inch L-head 4-cylinder engine. A later, larger model had the V-12. So far, no photos. http://worldofclassiccars.blogspot.com/2016/03/pathfinder-series-xiii-five-passenger.html?spref=pi Edited January 19, 2022 by f.f.jones Added info (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagefinds Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Packard had a V-12 they called the twin six in late 1915 for a few years but I can't say that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sagefinds said: Packard had a V-12 they called the twin six in late 1915 for a few years but I can't say that is it. To me not the same https://www.autozine.org/Archive/Packard/classic/Twin_Six.html https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1337949/1915-packard-twin-six-for-sale-in-norwalk-ohio-44857 Has images on engine Edited January 19, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 The rocker arms look a little like those used on Duesenberg aircraft engines in the teens, although this is not one of those engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagefinds Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 You are correct,definitely not Packard. I don't know where the Buick suggestion came from,I don't think they ever even had a V-8 in those days. Pathfinder is the only other one I've ever heard of. Those arms that open the valves are a little reminiscent of the Rochester-Duesenberg walking beam 4-cyl powerhouse engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 28 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said: To me not the same https://www.autozine.org/Archive/Packard/classic/Twin_Six.html https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1337949/1915-packard-twin-six-for-sale-in-norwalk-ohio-44857 Has images on engine The teens-vintage Packard Twin Six was a flathead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I'm wondering if this is an aircraft or marine engine. This Sunbeam Mohawk is similar in configuration, but clearly not the same engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 The crisp and artful design of the manifolds and valve setups suggest to me European, but pedal arrangement is LHD. Maybe an early Duesenberg prototype? That rocker arrangement is a big clue, maybe a Bugatti prototype?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 The "teacup" style drain sump and lack of rolled edges on the model T modified pan suggest that the pan is circa 1914. That drain sump became smaller and flatter in 1914. About 1916, the edge was rolled over slightly to make the pan stronger. It certainly looks like something someone altered or modified extensively to adapt to some different application. Any indications whether it was originally a twelve? Or maybe two sixes? I am trying to understand why the pan change? Possibly a total loss aircraft converted to sump splash oiling? Very interesting engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 This is the pathfinder V12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Some discussion here which includes a familiar photo - So far I have not found what valve actuating system the Weidely V12 used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 4 hours ago, nzcarnerd said: Some discussion here which includes a familiar photo - So far I have not found what valve actuating system the Weidely V12 used. when I posted this back in 2018 I was amazed that there were so many early V-12 cars built. If you scroll down in my post you will see a distributor that is a duplicate of the picture you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said: when I posted this back in 2018 I was amazed that there were so many early V-12 cars built. If you scroll down in my post you will see a distributor that is a duplicate of the picture you posted. Yes that was why I posted the link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 All - in 1917 and 1918 Kissel offered a “Kissel Double Six” model, which used a Wiedley 12 engine block. Only one survives today in Denver. Somewhere I have those technical pictures, but not now. It’s possible that this is one of these engines. Weidley 12 engines were also used in some period trucks. Ron Hausmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) Here is a view of a Kissel Double Six Edited January 20, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 All - Here are a few pictures of the internals of a Kissel Double Six Wiedley engine. The subject engine is not a Kissel Double six insofar as the Kissel had overhead valve springs, whereas this one has side valves. And some of the configurations don’t match. The subject engine has side rocker arms, which are very similar to those I’ve seen on some Duesenberg walking beam engines. I sure feels like it’s a duesy to me. Ron Hausmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Gamm Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 Thank you all for your input!!!!! The local auction has gone above my wallet, but still has 45 mins left if anyone is interested. https://hibid.com/lot/108965106/believed-to-be-1916-packard-12-cylinder Again thank you all for the wonderful input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) The flat galvanised plate at where the flywheel may/would be does not look of the time . An aircraft or marine engine adapted for another purpose? Interesting layout Sold for 3,180.00 USD Edit Holley carb shown another image from the auction MOHDER (German?) Bore 2 7/8 Stroke 3 13/16 CU IN 297 HP SAE 40 (but may not be correct - buyer beware) Edited January 20, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagefinds Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Weidely must have been very versatile,I had a 4cyl Cletrac crawler tractor motor made by them. Noteworthy of a later model V-12 would be GMC putting two V-6 engines together in some of their farm and work trucks in the 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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