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Locomobile Custom Body info. and pictures


alsfarms
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I ran across some interesting information on the Demarest Custom body builders that left a big foot print, along with other custom body builders, on Locomobile, at the pre-1930's time frame.  The 1925 Locomobile 48  Demarest Limousine is spoken of elsewhere in these Locomobile forums.  This could be a chat room to discuss custom body builders used by Locomobile.  If you have evidence on your Locomobile of the original body builder, please share here.  I will share this interesting Demarest information.

Al

 

Aaron T. Demarest (1841-1908) was born in Nyack, New York in 1841 and came to New York in 1855. In 1860 he went into business for himself on Park Place. After a short interval Mr. Demarest, with his partner, Gabriel C. Chevalier, moved to 628 Broadway, between Houston and Bleeker Streets, where they remained for almost thirty years. In 1890, they moved uptown into more elaborate quarters at 335 Fifth Ave. (at one time they also had property on 13th Street)

In 1873, Demarest & Chevalier purchased what was left of the New Haven, Connecticut firm of Lawrence, Bradley and Pardee Company from the sole remaining owner, William H. Bradley. Lawrence, Bradley &. Pardee were successors of the famed James Brewster. Under Demarest, the 61-67 Chapel St. factory grew to employ over 100 workers before closing down in 1916 when Demarest halted all carriage production and concentrated on building automobile bodies in their New York City factory.

In 1890, Demarest moved their New York City warerooms uptown to more fashionable quarters at an Astor-owned building at 335 Fifth Ave and 33rd St. Three years later, The New York Times reported:

“Many Fine Carriages Burned – Hotel Waldorf’s Guests Watch a Fire in the Demarest Carriage Warehouse.

“The guests of the Hotel Waldorf were aroused from their sleep at 3:30 o’clock yesterday morning by the clattering of fire engines in Fifth Avenue and Thirty-third Street, and when they looked out upon Fifth Avenue they saw the carriage warehouse of A.T. Demarest was in flames. For two hours or more they watched the flames with interest.

“The Demarest building is a five-story brick structure, across the avenue from the Waldorf, at the northeast corner of Thirty-third Street and Fifth Avenue.  It is used chiefly as a storage house for carriages. The top floor, where the fire started, was used as a repair shops, and the paints, oils, varnishes, and seasoned wood stored there furnished fuel for a fire that illuminated Fifth Avenue for many blocks….

“There were over 200 vehicles of all kinds, valued at $150,000, in the building. In the repair shop were twenty fine carriages. Most of these were entirely destroyed and the fire extended to the fourth floor.

In 1902 Demarest suffered a major stroke and withdrew from the day-to-day activities of the firm which at the time was run by Gabriel C. Chevalier, the firm’s secretary, and two members of Demarest’s immediate family; his brother, William R. Demarest and son, Warren G. Demarest.

Following Demarest’s stroke, New York’s Fleischmann family (of Fleishmann’s yeast, vinegar and gin fame), provided the financing for Demarest’s factory manager, Justus Vinton Locke, to open his own firm, Locke & Co., which would later become one of Manhattan’s premiere coach builders. Locke was an engineering graduate of Central New York’s Hamilton College and had served his apprenticeship at Healey & Co. He later went to work for Demarest and became superintendent of their New York City branch during the 1890s.

Another coachbuilder who worked for Demarest was Paul Ostruk, the founder of Brooks-Ostruk. Trained as a coachbuilder in his native Czechoslovakia, Ostruk emigrated to the United States in 1908. He worked for a number of New York City coachbuilders before being hired by Demarest, which is where he became friends with a Demarest customer named Mr. Brooks, who offered to help Ostruk form a firm of his own.

The following item appeared in the July 9, 1908 New York Times:

“A.T. Demarest Poisoned – New York Manufacturer is Taken Violently Ill After Eating Clams.

“Greenwich, Conn., July 9 – A.T. Demarest, a wealthy carriage manufacturer of New York City is seriously ill at the Kent House, a summer resort, the victim of ptomaine poisoning contracted two weeks ago while attending the graduation at Yale of his grandson, Francesco Whitmore.

“On the day following commencement he went to a shore dinner at Savin Rock and it was there, he believes, that he was poisoned eating clams. On his return to Greenwich he was taken violently ill. For several days he was in a dangerous condition.

Four days later, July 13, 1908, the Times announced his death:

“Greenwich, Conn., July 13 – A.T. Demarest, the New York carriage and automobile manufacturer, died tonight at the Kent House following, it is said, ptomaine poisoning. Mr. Demarest had been ill for more that three weeks, but a week ago it was thought he was recovering.

“Aaron T. Demarest was the president of the firm of A.T. Demarest & Co. of 335 Fifth Ave. which had been engaged for the past six years in making bodies for automobiles in “addition to carriage building, in which the firm has engaged in this city for forty-eight years.

“He was born in Nyack in 1841 and came to New York in 1855. In 1860 he went into business for himself in Park Place. After a short interval Mr. Demarest, with his partner, Gabriel C. Chevalier, moved to Broadway, between Houston and Bleeker Streets, and remained there for thirty years, when they transferred the carriage business to 335 Fifth Ave, the present address.

“Gabriel Chevalier said last night that Mr. Demarest had a stroke of paralysis six years ago and had not taken an active interest in the business since. His death last night was due, Mr. Chevalier said, to a second stroke of paralysis brought on by Mr. Demarest having gone to Yale during the great heat so see his grandson, Francesco Whitmore, graduate. In addition to his grandson, he is survived by two sons, Warren G. and John Howard, and a widowed daughter, Mrs. F.B. Whitmore. William R. Demarest, a brother, and Warren G. Demarest, the son are directors of the company and Gabriel Chevalier is Secretary.

A new 9-story building  (117’x66’ – 7700 sq ft per floor) was constructed by A.T. Demarest & Co. in 1909 at the southeast corner of Broadway and 57th St (224-228 West 57th Street aka  1758-1770 Broadway). It was designed by the famous New York architect, Francis H. Kimball, who also designed the new factory Peerless distributorship next door.

At the 1911 New York Importer’s Salon, Demarest’s large exhibit attracted the attention of the New York Times reporter:

“Demarest & Co. will place the 38 horsepower English Daimler Silent Knight show chassis in the space this morning.  The other cars they are displaying are three Italas and three Renaults. All the bodies having been built in their own shops. One Itala is a 30 horse power with a green limousine body, another is a 20 horse power show chassis, and the third is a 15 horse power dark blue folding front landaulet.

“The Renaults shown in the Demarest space are a 12-16 horse maroon extension front landaulet, with one-fourth windows at each side in front; a 14-20 horse power green landaulet, with a detachable top over the driver’s seat and folding window pillars arranged so the body can be changed into an open one for touring, and a 20-30 horse power maroon limousine.

Demarest also built a large number of bodies for the luxurious Simplex/Crane-Simplex/Simplex-Crane automobiles of 1907-1919. They also supplied bodies for the American Singer as well as the F.R.P., Porter and Hol-Tan as well as imported chassis such as Benz, Panhard et LeVassor, Renault, English Daimler and Itala.

Few Demarest bodies are known to exist but the Owl's Head Transportation Museum in Owl's Head, Maine has a 1905 Panhard with a Custom King of Belgium touring body by Demarest. At the time of his death, the great bandleader, Don Ricardo, owned a 1911 Benz with Demarest Victoria Touring body originally owned by C.M. Hayes, President of the Chicago Grand Trunk Railway.

Demarest also exhibited at the 1912 and 1913 Salon but they were noticeably absent from the 1914 edition and all subsequent salons. In 1915, A.T. Demarest & Co. discontinued their New Haven factory, and two years later the firm’s board of directors accepted a very lucrative offer by William’s Durant’s General Motors Corp. to buy out their lease on the 57th St. property.

Both the A.T. Demarest building and it’s Peerless sister structure were acquired in 1918 and combined into one office building by the recently-formed General Motors Corporation for its initial major corporate headquarters. The building was used by General Motors for over fifty years, until its purchase in 1977 by the Hearst Corporation to house offices of its Heart Magazines division. The A.T. Demarest/Peerless building was designated an official New York City Landmark in 2000.

The Demarest board - William R. Demarest, president; Warren G. Demarest, vice-president & treasurer; and Gabriel Chevalier, secretary - elected to sell the business as well and on February 7, 1919, F. Neubauer, W. Farrell and A. Cordes incorporated the A.T. Demarest Co. Inc. with a capitalization of $50,000.

The new owners re-located the new firm to a leased factory located at 521 E.72nd St., which is on New York’s upper East Side between York Ave and the East River. Hugo Pfau remembered frequenting the new firm during the late twenties at  to check up on repair work they had undertaken for LeBaron.

Demarest also built some of the early LeBaron-designed bodies, including the first Locomobile Sportif introduced in 1923 and a sporting roadster fitted to a 1923 Peerless V8 model 66 chassis. Later that year LeBaron designed a pair of bodies for the well-known female architect, Theodate Pope Riddle.

She owned two 1915 Crane-Simplex chassis, and wanted to update their coachwork. Under LeBaron's guidance, Demarest built a new Coupe-Landaulet and Sedan Limousine and fabricated completely new radiators, hoods and fenders that did not betray the 8-year-old chassis.

Demarest continued to build bodies into the late twenties, but by 1930 most of their work involved collision and paint work. They also refurbished older bodies and mounted them onto new chassis, a job that often involved extensive rebuilding of the cowl and rear quarters.

© 2004 Mark Theobald - Coachbuilt.com

 

Edited by alsfarms
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Wow, quite striking that company history and potentially influence may have been dictated by ingesting bad clams! Also of note I am concerned I never knew this when ordering seafood on many occasions at the local place off the beach in East Haven where they play bocci not far from there....🙄

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I've never been sick from shellfish but it is no joke if you do get sick.

 

It doesn't really say when Demarest completely shutdown.  Sort of seems like Derham where they lasted a long time doing repair and modifications.

 

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I have read that several times over the years. You never supplied a photo of a dividing window in your Demarest Limousine. Is yours a sedan limousine which is a variant without a division window for less formal buyers?

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Hello George,

I thought I had taken plenty of very good pictures, inside and outside of the Demarest Limousine.  Not only have I determined that I have not done the best regarding pictures, but my photo file system is not really organized the best either!  That said.....yes, my 1925 Locomobile 48 Demarest Limousine is the formal design with the divider window.  I have most of the phone? communication hardware with the speaker horn just behind the chauffeur.  I will post the best side picture, I have, where you can see the body structure that supports and guides the division window.  This same picture is also showing the status of the unrestored Demarest Limousine.  Are there any other original or unrestored, mostly restored or fully restored Demarest Limousines that I can use for reference as I bring this one back to life?  George, thanks for your comment and question.

Al

IMG_20210630_141253218_HDR.jpg.25d085a2269ccd2a35ec0c2614696acf.jpg

 

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That is a very good question regarding this jewel in the rough.  My first thought is to do all mechanical to make it run as it should, then proceed with other refinements.  This Demarest Limousine is rather typical with around 25K miles on the clock so I am not anticipating many very worn out mechanical components.  Sadly, this automobile spent its life in the Connecticut area with much more humidity before coming to Utah for the dry climate and retirement.  As such, the aluminum splash aprons and hood panels are flea bitten and need serious repair or replacement. To answer your question about large parts missing, gladly I can say no!  Engine, transmission, radiator, hood, fenders are all present but in need of various amounts of repair.  I am missing small pieces, however, such as, tail lights, Bausch and Lomb headlamp lenses, hood hold down latches, and probably a grundle of other small assembly pieces.  Undoubtedly, the interior will be the big chunk to swallow.  Fortunately, my hourly rate and doing my own work will allow me to financially save enough along the way to complete the interior.

Al

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I didn't know Locomobile 48's were built as late as 1925. Enjoyed reading about Demarest and Peerless and their conjoined buildings which became the General Motors headquarters. I've seen a picture of a '23 Peerless Roadster with Demarest coachwork mentioned above.

oo1923PeeLebDem.jpg

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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Jeff, Thanks for your posting the sales literature regarding Peerless.  I am interested in Demarest Custom bodies as they relate to Locomobile but also other Demarest custom bodies as they relate to Peerless and others.  If you know of other makes sporting Demarest bodywork, please post here to educate us more fully on the scope and influence of Demarest on early classic era automobiles.  I see some significant similarities between the Demarest Limousine shown above and offerings by Pierce-Arrow.

Al

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Hi Al,

  Tried to go to the coachbuid.com site, but part of it's shut down for maintenance.

  You may have already read this -- but Jacques-Leretrait.blogspot.com has a couple of pics of Demarest coachwork -- most I have never seen. I'll try to forward a save-and-paste of their listing. If that doesn't work, I'll try to individually send some.

 

a. something about Ostruk, failed paste

b. ATD logo 

A.T.%2BDESMARETS%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-.jpg
 
 
- 1860 - 1918 / 1918 - 1930 -
A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BPANHARD-LEVASSOR%2B6cyl%2B-%2B40%2BHP%2B-%2B1905.jpg
Demarest 1 - PANHARD - LEVASSOR 6cyl - 40 HP - 1905
 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BWESTIGHOUSE%2BDEMI-LIMOUSINE%2B-%2B1907.jpg  ...Demarest 2 - Westinghouse Half Limousine - 1907

 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-.jpg
 
 
A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BMERCEDES%2BMODEL%2B50%2B-%2B1911.jpg
Demarest 3 - MERCEDES MODEL 50 - 1911
 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BPACKARD%2BSIX%2BVICTORIA%2BPHAETON%2B-%2B1912.jpg
Demarest 4 - PACKARD SIX VICTORIA PHAETON - 1912
 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BPACKARD%2B3-35%2BCOUPE%2BCHAUFFEUR%2B-%2B1920.jpg...
Demarest 5 - PACKARD 3/35 CHAUFFEUR COUPE - 1920
 

 

 Demarest 6 A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BLOCOMOBILE%2BROADSTER%2B-%2B1924.jpg Roadster Locomobile 1924

 

 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BLOCOMOBILE%2BMODEL%2B48%2B-%2B1925.jpg Demarest 7 - Locomobile -48 - 1925

 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BCRANE-SIMPLEX%2BCOUPE%2B-%2B1915.jpg  Demarest 8 - Skull-Simplex - 1915

 

 

 

A.T.DEMAREST%2B%2526%2BCO%2B-%2BBODIES%2B-%2BROLLS-ROYCE%2BSILVER%2BGHOST%2BSEDAN%2B-%2B1921.jpg Demarest 9 - Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost Sedan Convertible - 1921

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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Number 7 may be the missing Loco Floyd Durham car with the custom radiator with the large S on the front shell. It’s been forty years since I have seen it. I think it’s a 1928.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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It was certainly a special.......one of the most unusual cars I had ever seen as a youngster. My guess is that It was an earlier chassis with a 1928 body on it. Sold new in Connecticut as memory serves me. The entire car was bespoke. Owned by a world class collector who has passed on. He only had fantastic stuff.....a 90 hp Simplex was parked next to it.

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Can anyone clean up the quality of the #7 Demarest picture labeled as a Locomobile.  I can almost make out front brake drums on the car.  That may make it a 1925 Locomobile chassis.  I just can't make out other details clearly.  The radiator badge looks rather more like an "R" to me not an "L"?  Front hubcaps don't look like later series Locomobile stamped design.  Maybe with the picture tuned up a bit, more of the Locomobile details could be determined.  Let's do some more sleuthing.

Al

Edited by alsfarms
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18 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Jeff,

I think your Demarest 7 is miss labeled.  That sure looks like a Rolls Royce to me not a Locomobile.  What do you think.

Al

 

 

......I had to hand type many of the captions -- it took 2 hours -- and may have gotten some wrong.

......It reminds me of a wealthy old boy who could afford anything and had a faux R-R built based on something else. Mr. Edward Stotesbury, who had the huge mansion built near Philadelphia, Whitemarsh Hall. He did have a 1925 Locomobile:

      (from the Stotesbury site, described as a 1925 Locomobile Model 48 Convertible Sedan)

      (I knew I had seen that somewhere. The stotesbury.com site goes into some detail of the various incarnations of the car)

1925 Stotesbury Locomobile

 

"In 2004, Clark Rittersbach of Platinum Classic Motorcars in East Rochester, NY completed a painstaking restoration of the original 1925 Stotesbury Locomobile. Various attributes were reconstructed in the spirit of the original Stotesbury style.

The restored car weighed 5,330 lbs., was 142 inches long and had a 525 cubic inch, 6 cylinder steam engine that would produce 95 HP at 2,200 RPM."

 

Restored Stotesbury Locomobile
Rear of restored Stotesbury Locomobile
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6 hours ago, jeff_a said:

 

......It reminds me of a wealthy old boy who could afford anything and had a faux R-R built based on something else. Mr. Edward Stotesbury, who had the huge mansion built near Philadelphia, Whitemarsh Hall. He did have a 1925 Locomobile:

      (from the Stotesbury site, described as a 1925 Locomobile Model 48 Convertible Sedan)

 
 

 

Horace Trumbauer was the architect on Whitemarsh hall. I have a book on Horace and that house has its own chapter.

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That is interesting "sleuthing" on the subject of the mystery Locomobile.  Does any information exist as to when he commissioned the Locomobile 48 to be customized?  Credit has been given to Demarest as the body builder.  I suppose that is very possible that this is certainly a Demarest "one off".  It would be nice to see more "in period" information and pictures.  Does anyone in this group happen to have current pictures or know of the current disposition of this Locomobile?

Al

Edited by alsfarms
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  • In the fall of 1924, E.T. Stotesbury purchased a 1925 Locomobile Model 48 chassis and had it refitted with a custom town car body and a collapsible roof made by the Derham Body Company (formerly the Derham Carriage Works) on Lancaster Avenue in Rosemont, PA. The Derham brothers designed it so that the car looked like a Phaeton when the top and all of the windows were lowered. Upon delivery, Stotesbury shipped the car to New York, where new fenders, a Rolls Royce style hood, a radiator and custom appointments (including the initial "S" on the radiator) were added.

    It is likely that this car was used by Eva Stotesbury, as Mr. Stotesbury tended to prefer the Peerless, Chrysler and Buick models for his own cars. It probably was sold in 1928, when Eva obtained a new Rolls Royce as her main vehicle."

 

  • Photo Sources: John Deming, Jr.; the Hershey Auction 2005; ConceptCarz.com. Additional information provided by the Lower Merion Historical Society, Platinum Classic Motor Cars, the Auto Collections at the Imperial Palace Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas, PopularMechanics.com, ConceptCarz.com, John Yunis, and John Deming, Jr.
  • Engine of Restored Stotesbury Locomobile
    Front interior of restored Stotesbury Locomobile
    Rear interior of restored Stotesbury Locomobile
    Rear seat of restored Stotesbury Locomobile
     
 
 
 
 
  • These are some more things from the excellent Stotesbury website. Edward Stotesbury was a senior partner in J.P. Morgan's firm.
  • Maybe edinmass will remember details of the Locomobile he saw 40 years ago and see how these pictures compare. The photo credits could give us clues as to where the car is now.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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That's the car! Wondering where it was.........memory from 40 years ago was pretty good! Earlier chassis, and I am CERTAIN it was listed as a Floyd-Derham body........I have no clue, and scholarship is thin at best.....thanks for the photos.....brought back great memories of some other cars also........

 

 

Where is it now? I'll plead guilty to having visited way too many collections and garages............and I have never come across it. So it's in a deep, dark hole.

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This car was parked next to the Loco for decades, and I played chauffeur in it many times..........the stories I could tell......

1929-cord-L29-town-car-driver-side-front.jpg

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Also part of the same collection.......this guy had EVERYTHING! Money wasn't an issue......... 

IMG_2204.jpg.webp

1600px-Den_Haag_Louwman_Museum_179.jpg

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One of my mentors who knows more about coach building than anyone I ever met......and that’s a long list, identified it as Floyd-Durham. He did the majority of the restoration work, and it was 95 percent done before the owner passed and was finished elsewhere. 

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On 1/21/2022 at 7:07 PM, alsfarms said:

Hello George,

I thought I had taken plenty of very good pictures, inside and outside of the Demarest Limousine.  Not only have I determined that I have not done the best regarding pictures, but my photo file system is not really organized the best either!  That said.....yes, my 1925 Locomobile 48 Demarest Limousine is the formal design with the divider window.  I have most of the phone? communication hardware with the speaker horn just behind the chauffeur.  I will post the best side picture, I have, where you can see the body structure that supports and guides the division window.  This same picture is also showing the status of the unrestored Demarest Limousine.  Are there any other original or unrestored, mostly restored or fully restored Demarest Limousines that I can use for reference as I bring this one back to life?  George, thanks for your comment and question.

Al

IMG_20210630_141253218_HDR.jpg.25d085a2269ccd2a35ec0c2614696acf.jpg

 

 

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Alan, that body is so very deCausse.  Look at a Series 11 Franklin.  Identical styling.  Series 11 Franklin was 100% designed by J Franklin deCausse who came to Locomobile in 1915 or so and left in '21.  

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9 hours ago, edinmass said:


 

One of my mentors who knows more about coach building than anyone I ever met......and that’s a long list, identified it as Floyd-Durham. He did the majority of the restoration work, and it was 95 percent done before the owner passed and was finished elsewhere. 

Floyd-Durham is sure an esoteric builder. Never heard of nor seen an example. Saw this example online. They sure liked heavy duty door hinges.AD9A39DB-F849-4599-B0A0-4584297B4934.jpeg.5d0f91baf95a3ffa7528c21c6925169a.jpeg

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I also noticed the hinge work on the custom bodied Locomobile spoken of above.  AK, I have noticed some very "stark" similarities between custom bodies built by different body shops and offered to the public on a number of significant and different manufacturers running gears.  A couple of months ago I posed a question to the editors of the Pierce-Arrow monthly publication regarding a sales image of a 1924 or 1925 large series P-A Sedan on the back page.  It looks to be a near twin to the unrestored Demarest Limousine shown above but reputedly built by a totally different body builder.  Check out the comments by the editor regarding my question in a later subsequent publication.  I wonder if many basic style and design parameters were "borrowed" from each other between body shops?

Al

Edited by alsfarms
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> Between the Imperial Auto Collections, Las Vegas*; the 2005 Hershey Auction; and ConceptCar.com, someone may know where this unusual '25 Locomobile went.

> The first paragraph in my entry 10 posts up, from Stotesbury.com, sort of implies the front end mods were done up in New York. Derham was in Philly and Demarest was in New York. The writer was not too specific...but the fenders, hood & rad shell could have been added by Demarest...or one of a dozen other shops in NY.

> Ed, that Cord is really impressive. Given the choice between a '29 Model A Ford Town Car and a Cord Town Car, both rare iron, I guess the Cord would win out for me. Unless my route took me by bread lines, where the occasional turnip or tomato might be hurled my direction.

> Ed...you ever get the little postcard I tried to send you? It had a couple of Whites in Montana that looked a little like your 1915 or 1917.

 

 

* not that they're still in existence

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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 Ed...you ever get the little postcard I tried to send you? It had a couple of Whites in Montana that looked a little like your 1915 or 1917.

 

 

Jeff......Yes! Thank you.....the package got wet, and I couldn't tell where it came from. It's in my files with the White info. It actually sat on my dry for about three weeks before I opened it as it was so wet it needed to dry out. Thank you so much for thinking of me. 👍

 

PS- The card was fine....just the outer envelope was soaked. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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 I wonder if many basic style and design parameters were "borrowed" from each other between body shops?

 

 

To quote Ray Dietrich in an interview he gave in the 70's........"We didn't come up with something new very often, so we always "borrowed" good ideas from other people. "

 

After fifty years of reading about coach building, I think 80 percent of the "new ideas" came over from the continent.....just my two cents. Ed

 

 

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Here is my 2 cents on body design and styling, both from the other side of the pond and the "new world" side of the pond.  Some aspects of styling, to me is too stodgy.  Some of the French, German and Italian are simply beautiful.  I agree, some of what we consider beautiful does have a European flair.  Also, some British styling out of the 30's are beautiful, but not common in our US culture.  For instance the early Bentley, Lagonda and especially the understated Alvis Speed models.  The side pipes on the Locomobile Sport Roadster is another "hit over the fence" style that makes a great and lasting impression.

Al

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Morning Ed,

I have found that nothing is ever a "for sure" thing when it comes to records, verification, finding parts/cars and especially considering this chat on custom body works for our heavy antique automobiles.  Just when I get close to saying "never" I will have a significant and delightful surprise.  I have several "over the fence post stories" that prove the wisdom to the saying "never say never".  It sounds like you have had your chance of never say never proven to be sure after all in your lifelong automobile meanderings. Have you seen very many accurately restored Floyd-Durham custom bodies, on any make, in your travels?.

Al

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