edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 NB Pease was and is about seven miles from my house and shop. I started going there right after he left West Springfield. He always had stuff.....it was amazing. And at reasonable prices. After I started driving my car there, he became much less guarded than he usually is. About 25 years ago, he would allow us to pick through thr inventory ourselves. He was closed on Wednesdays, but that was the day I usually visited. Over the years he always refused rides in my car that I drove over. When we became very active buying and selling cars....about 2000, we would actually socialize to an extent. The day that really changed thing is when I pulled up to the shop in a Model J. He was blown away. He still refused a ride. He has sold off 70 percent of his stuff and stoped replacing it about ten years ago. We went in and bought large amounts of inventory before he began to liquidate. I spent eight hours picking through fittings from pre war cars.......the impossible to find stuff you need for the big boy toys. I must have bought three hundred pounds of stuff. It was a truly a unique place in the car hobby. In the old days, we would bring visitors there just to see everything. Here is an interesting bit of info....... He actually did own a bunch of cars.....mostly 1934-1940.......for many years he owned a very famous car that’s on this forum.........Matt Harwood’s Lincoln from hell. 🤫 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Skelly Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) Hi Ed, What primary reasons cause you to scrap a particular Pierce? I would think wood rot in the body would be the end of any but the most desirable body styles such as a roadster, touring, convertible or coupe. Another exception would be an early model. Edited January 13, 2022 by Jim Skelly (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 You can buy a 90 point car for less than the cost of doing the wood......not to mention the two years to get it done. Economics dictate most projects today as parts cars....... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Ed, you should, if you haven’t already, start recording all of this information or fun interesting car facts (If you will), on paper or electronically. So if you never get around to writing your book the stories will live on. Some guy like Walt could then write it and make a fortune selling it to guys like me and other car guys. Then he could spend that fortune having all the fun with wine, women and Crown Royal you missed out on! Seriously it would be a great car book to read. dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) More photos of the ghost of a Pierce Arrow...........understand anything not saved is because we have half a dozen better spares inside, inventoried, cleaned, and inspected. We only toss stuff beyond redemption..... Edited January 13, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, edinmass said: More photos of the ghost of a Pierce Arrow...........understand anything not saves is because we have half a dozen better spares inside, inventoried, cleaned, and inspected. We only toss stuff beyond redemption..... You’re not a real cay guy unless you knock some cars in the” head”. Economic reality. Like an old picker/ scrapper said to me “ look at it this way I’m making the other ones more valuable “ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Better to see someone who knows what it takes to get a car "saved and preserved" dismantle what is well beyond hope then just let it remain abandon someplace and rot into the ground so that none of the parts can ever make another worthy survivor more whole and once again function. All preservationists and historians are mostly realistic be it the restoration/preservation of a building, object , etc. no sense thinking that the Titanic can be raised and then with effort be restored. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Pierce Arrow scrap, but if that was a frame section and rear axle from a Type 57 Bugatti or 1932 Ford there would be a bidding war going on. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) Not just a type 57 , but rather any model of Bugatti. I know it's a matter of 2022 supply and demand, but for many cars any part is almost a treasure. What makes these PA's so undesirable ? Top quality car, quite limited production. Known for decent road manners. Why are some cars ; perhaps not even as worthy in an apples to apples comparison , potentially rebuilt from a wheelbarrow of junk and a shovel full of rust ? And yet a reasonably complete PA 12 sedan is only worth salvage . With what , 70 % of the car ending up in the scrap bin . The current , much more deteriorated car seems to be about 85% scrap. Is the sedan body , Classic car market segment that depressed ? Up here in an area where any Classic is a very rare thing I don't get a good read on the hobby . 98% of the cars I encounter are very bread and butter. The other 2 % are owned by the 1 %. I don't personally desire to own a PA sedan. But they do seem in my eyes to be very worthy cars. If I won a lottery I would be looking for a Kissel like Ron Hausmann's current project. Although I suspect he found the last one. Concours restored cars do very little for me. It would only be Ron's starting point that I would be interested in. Do a minimum of what is necessary to be structurally sound and dependably road worthy. Ed, your treatment of Great White is my ideal ! And just enjoy it . Different strokes. P.S. , at least Ron is providing a great series of photo's of his car and all the details of its construction. If nothing else I can see just how they are built . Its the nuts and bolts, castings and forgings of these cars that fascinate me . Not the chrome , paint and leather. Edited January 13, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) You don't comprehend the scope of our inventory. We can deliver great bodies with good wood, great fenders, ect. Fact is, the car in the photos is 10 times worse than you think. When a running driver V-12 is a 50 k car...........the rusty pile of scrap has no value. We do save everything that we can sell, and after 35 years we know what is in demand, and what is not. Little things like brake shoes are saved.....not to sell, but to send out ahead of time so when doing a brake job we can disassemble and assemble in the same day. All hardware, fittings, special linkages, ext.....are all saves. Would you like to buy a Pierce V-12 engine? We have more than thirty of them on the shelf from 1932 to 1938. Probably have 75 wheels. forty transmissions. Fenders, doors, hoods, radiators, the list is endless.........."we got that" for Pierce Arrow. Edited January 13, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 Carburetors anyone? Notice finished hardware correctly plated and read to go for rebuilds.......we usually do 5 carbs at a time, so we have tons of parts and hardware ready for an immediate turn around. Last count on Delco distributors is more than 80 of them....... There is probably 25k just in plated hardware in the cabinet........ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) No I don't understand. Like I said, I live in an area 1/2 the size of Europe { Western Canada } ,where the number of classic cars could probably be counted on a couple of person's fingers and toes. So things like your parts inventory are completely beyond my experience. Edited January 13, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 hours ago, 1912Staver said: Not just a type 57 , but rather any model of Bugatti. I know it's a matter of 2022 supply and demand, but for many cars any part is almost a treasure. What makes these PA's so undesirable ? Top quality car, quite limited production. Known for decent road manners. Why are some cars ; perhaps not even as worthy in an apples to apples comparison , potentially rebuilt from a wheelbarrow of junk and a shovel full of rust ? And yet a reasonably complete PA 12 sedan is only worth salvage . With what , 70 % of the car ending up in the scrap bin . The current , much more deteriorated car seems to be about 85% scrap. Is the sedan body , Classic car market segment that depressed ? Up here in an area where any Classic is a very rare thing I don't get a good read on the hobby . 98% of the cars I encounter are very bread and butter. I suspect Pierce Arrows were never 'cars of ones youth' in Western Canada, although there were/are at least a couple of restored examples in the Lower Mainland: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/54502-25-years-ago-this-weekend Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jim Skelly said: Hi Ed, What primary reasons cause you to scrap a particular Pierce? I would think wood rot in the body would be the end of any but the most desirable body styles such as a roadster, touring, convertible or coupe. Another exception would be an early model. Ed, Just curious, what would you do today if you or John found a car like I once owned. The car was a 1934 PA 840A Club Brougham. It's not the most beautiful PA but it was one of only two or maybe three of that model to have survived. The car had been hauled from the California desert to a well known LA classic car wrecking yard during the early 50's. It resided there until the later that decade when it was purchased and moved by a friend to Spokane Washington, using a tow bar. It had been sparsely used as a parts car for my friend's project PA. When I purchased the car it was missing a few parts (back wing windows, trunk latch and some side mt. hardware and rear fenders) but the car was dead straight, absolutely no rust and no wood rot. The engine was stuck but it was subsequently determined that the only thing wrong with it was a collapsed lifter. The engine showed no internal wear. The car needed a full restoration so what would you do with it? Edited January 13, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, 8E45E said: I suspect Pierce Arrows were never 'cars of ones youth' in Western Canada, although there were/are at least a couple of restored examples in the Lower Mainland: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/54502-25-years-ago-this-weekend Craig Of the PA's you posted at least one of the owners is still alive and active in the hobby.. But the current Vintage Car Club of Canada roster does not list him as owning a PA . He may still own it but just not list it anymore. He does still have a number of very nice cars. Last time I was talking to him he mentioned that he was selling off some of the older cars as he was finding them not as enjoyable to drive as he got older. He did however just buy back a remarkable, early { 1915 era } speedster conversion of a top tier U.S. prestige make that he sold 5 years or so in the past. One of my favorite local cars. I posted a photo of it in PFindlay's thread on surviving British Columbia pre- war cars. Edited January 13, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 He must be getting 'up there' in years. I took those photos in 1986; some 36 years ago by the time summer rolls around. Hard to believe it's that long ago Vancouver hosted a World's Fair!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said: Ed, Just curious, what would you do today if you or John found a car like I once owned. The car was a 1934 PA 840A Club Brougham. It's not the most beautiful PA but it was one of only two or maybe three of that model to have survived. The car had been hauled from the California desert to a well known LA classic car wrecking yard during the early 50's. It resided there until the later that decade when it was purchased and moved by a friend to Spokane Washington, using a tow bar. It had been sparsely used as a parts car for my friend's project PA. When I purchased the car it was missing a few parts (back wing windows, trunk latch and some side mt. hardware and rear fenders) but the car was dead straight, absolutely no rust and no wood rot. The engine was stuck but it was subsequently determined that the only thing wrong with it was a collapsed lifter. The engine showed no internal wear. The car needed a full restoration so what would you do with it? Thats easy......with good tin and wood, we would have assembled all the missing pieces and tried to sell it as a project. A two door car that is a project will still sell at the right price. We recently parted out a very solid 1932 sedan. The body and fenders went to a family that had a car with bad wood and some rust........they are swapping bodies, and then selling their original. There are a lot of Pierce Arrow cars......well over 2500. Fact is half today are now probably parts or dead end projects. The supply of finished cars is large enough to keep the market saturated.......that goes ten times for Cadillac and Packard.......and also for Lincoln. Fellas.....there is NO SHORTAGE OF CARS, just a shortage of turn key cars. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Time does fly. I had just met the woman who became my wife a few months before Expo. We visited Expo a few times over the duration of the fair. Times were very tight for us. I was working as a mechanic at the time but saving every nickel possible so I could finish school. Future Wife was doing similar so she could attend Nursing School. But we had my rat bag old MGA and enjoyed life as much as we could. Still have both the MGA and the wife. Wife is in reasonably good working condition, MGA needs a good go through. 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I think what you are really saying Ed, is that the shortage is not the cars . But rather the most limiting things in many / most of our lives. Time, space and money. Having all three seems to be an increasingly rare thing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, edinmass said: Thats easy......with good tin and wood, we would have assembled all the missing pieces and tried to sell it as a project. A two door car that is a project will still sell at the right price. We recently parted out a very solid 1932 sedan. The body and fenders went to a family that had a car with bad wood and some rust........they are swapping bodies, and then selling their original. There are a lot of Pierce Arrow cars......well over 2500. Fact is half today are now probably parts or dead end projects. The supply of finished cars is large enough to keep the market saturated.......that goes ten times for Cadillac and Packard.......and also for Lincoln. Fellas.....there is NO SHORTAGE OF CARS, just a shortage of turn key cars. Your comment re surviving numbers is interesting. In comparison Studebakers of the 1928-33 era which were built in much greater numbers have not survived to the same extent, especially cars that are not four door sedans. I am sure the same is true of other mid price cars - such as the larger Grahams and Reos and others. I am sure there are probably quite a few projects out there but, as has been noted by others, the economics don't stack up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 21 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Really interesting look at part of the hobby few get to see. I think the same thing happened to Model A Ford Fordor sedans 40 years ago. Are there people out there scrapping the same era Packards, Cadillacs and Buicks? Dave Tacheny of the Buick persuasion in Minnesota, parts out Buicks routinely. He tells me that he's cannibalized hundreds of old Buicks. The other thing he says is "there's nothing special about a Special". Any part that a Special has that fits the larger series means the Special, even if a #1 car, just became a donor. Also, since none of the Buick guys are likely reading this thread, I'll admit to cutting up a rare 1940 Buick convertible that was restorable, but it gave its all to make another one complete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 edinmass, I often notice your CV takes up a whole page/screen, you giving any thought to condensing it? Save on scrolling for your fans Others also have fairly long CV's, AACA should encourage members to be "scroll conscious". Just a suggestion/thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, kgreen said: Dave Tacheny of the Buick persuasion in Minnesota, parts out Buicks routinely. He tells me that he's cannibalized hundreds of old Buicks. The other thing he says is "there's nothing special about a Special". Any part that a Special has that fits the larger series means the Special, even if a #1 car, just became a donor. Also, since none of the Buick guys are likely reading this thread, I'll admit to cutting up a rare 1940 Buick convertible that was restorable, but it gave its all to make another one complete. kgreen: Yes another fellow of the Buick perusuasion is reading this. My very special, still running and solid but torn and bent 37 Special is on its way to Winnipeg as a parts car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Ed, there may not be a shortage of cars but in my case there is a definite shortage of cash! Unless of course you want to dig into those famously deep pockets that never get opened that AJ is always saying you have and give me some ( I did not say lend) so no payback. dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Gunsmoke said: edinmass, I often notice your CV takes up a whole page/screen, you giving any thought to condensing it? Save on scrolling for your fans Others also have fairly long CV's, AACA should encourage members to be "scroll conscious". Just a suggestion/thought. What is a CV? The list of junk at the bottom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, edinmass said: What is a CV? The list of junk at the bottom? Yes, all the stuff you made up and stuck in your signature. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) I actually need to update it and add some stuff.........🤔 Does that mean I can’t list Stearns Knight wrench? Edited January 14, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 CV? As I sit here struggling with my tablet, trying to follow the forum, I notice that that "long list" of stuff isn't there? I guess it is a "mobile device" thing? We still have no internet connection to our computers since the Christmas snow storm. A lot of things just do not work the same on the tablet. Interesting reading about some of the Pierce Arrows that wind up in the scrap piles. A sad fact of life to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I'm still waiting to find out what classic this is going to be resurrected as 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 14 hours ago, SC38dls said: Ed, you should, if you haven’t already, start recording all of this information or fun interesting car facts (If you will), on paper or electronically. So if you never get around to writing your book the stories will live on. Some guy like Walt could then write it and make a fortune selling it to guys like me and other car guys. Then he could spend that fortune having all the fun with wine, women and Crown Royal you missed out on! Seriously it would be a great car book to read. dave s Its hard to sell something that is given away free! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, edinmass said: What is a CV? The list of junk at the bottom? Curriculum Vitae...it's Latin for a resume. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 45 minutes ago, 3macboys said: I'm still waiting to find out what classic this is going to be resurrected as It will be some Pebble Beach special class winner with a story to match. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 minute ago, edinmass said: It will be some Pebble Beach special class winner with a story to match. The floor sweepings that Ed is frequently talking about.... And Ed will write the compelling and expansive story of the future Pebble special class winner while under the alfluence of incahol....but only Crown Royal. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 13 hours ago, edinmass said: 's Thats easy......with good tin and wood, we would have assembled all the missing pieces and tried to sell it as a project. A two door car that is a project will still sell at the right price. We recently parted out a very solid 1932 sedan. The body and fenders went to a family that had a car with bad wood and some rust........they are swapping bodies, and then selling their original. There are a lot of Pierce Arrow cars......well over 2500. Fact is half today are now probably parts or dead end projects. The supply of finished cars is large enough to keep the market saturated.......that goes ten times for Cadillac and Packard.......and also for Lincoln. Fellas.....there is NO SHORTAGE OF CARS, just a shortage of turn key cars. Thanks for confirming the answer I had hoped you would give. It seems to me that some people who deal in as many cars as you do can lose sight of what the car is and begin to look at anything as the accumulated value of it's parts. While I know that this is realistic in today's world of the hobby, it still bothers me when I see 80 years of history wiped away. In a way it reminds me of the street rodders in the 90's who liked to brag about the restored of original car that they used for their street rod project, just to watch a purist squirm. Do you know this car? There is a good chance that it was the car that i owned. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) Actually it's not the car I was thinking of............so no, I have not seen it. Edited January 14, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 11 hours ago, 3macboys said: I'm still waiting to find out what classic this is going to be resurrected as Looks like going to the scrap for recycling. So the answer to your question is a Toyota. Now that Ed knows what his PA's will become I bet he will be a bit more conservative as to where the scraps go! On the other hand, next time you buy a new car you can think about the bit of classic in its DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 idly wondering why the wood work on these is so costly... Obviously crsftspersonship is required. but it doesn't look a lot more complicated than a wooden boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 11 hours ago, 3macboys said: I'm still waiting to find out what classic this is going to be resurrected as The next big Brass Era car shown at Pebble Beach but was thought to be extinct... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: The next big Brass Era car shown at Pebble Beach but was thought to be extinct... And I know which dealer found it in a barn...........🤐 Edited January 14, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 19 hours ago, edinmass said: ".....there is NO SHORTAGE OF CARS, just a shortage of turnkey cars." With Groucho eyebrows flexing, eyes rolling, cigar smoke curling; "Ed...Ya just said the secret woids!" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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