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1932 series 60 axle removal help


32buick67
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I have been searching the forum, and I found many great instructions and advice, but I wasn't able to find enough info.

 

Does anyone know the procedure for removing the rear axle?

 

I can see the castle nuts and cotter pins inside the pinion assembly.

There is about 1/16" play in the axle, do I need to tighten up the castle nut?

 

I am looking at replacing these seals (reddish-brown seals at the end of the shaft just below the inner bearing race).

The seals are allowing differential lube into the wheel bearings.

The differential lube is also very overdue to changing.

 

  • 5.0304, #220976, main tube oil seal collar right, 1931-1932 series 60
  • 5.0304, #220977, main tube oil seal collar left, 1931-1932 series 60

 

Thanks,

Mario

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You will need to remove the spider retaining center casting  to get to the axle lock nuts.  Center picture, at the bottom you can see the retaining bolt.  Rotate the Ring gear 90 degrees and remove this retaining bolt.  Then you can remove the center shaft that 2 of the spiders ride on.  With the shaft removed you can remove the center spider retaining piece.  this will allow you to remove the cotter pins and the retaining nuts so the axles can be pulled out.  The spider gears and brass bushings will most likely fall out when the axles are pulled, so note their positions for reassembly. 

 

Bob Engle

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Thanks Bob!

 

Any guess as to why the fluid in the differential was milky brown with bubbles which don't pop after sitting for days, and why there might be some dark black oil also in the case?

Is the brown oil from water, and black oil from burning?

Attached is the differential case cover.

 

I can only guess that the oil hasn't been changed in decades and water was in the differential somehow.

I was told the car hasn't seen rain in 20+years, which could mean that water got inside somehow before then.

Could condensation form inside of sufficient quantities over time to cause old oil to turn milky brown?

The car has been in MN for at least 30yrs, and we get some extreme weather (awoke to -21F air temperature at my house this morning).

I am just not sure how the water could have gotten inside the differential, if that was the case.

 

 

 

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Success!

 

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The key was busted in the left shaft, and it was strange because the broken pieces were in the bottom of the keyway (the key looked fine externally, but upon removal, the pieces remained in the keyway.)

 

 

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The really cool part, IMHO, is the Buick engineering for the axle shaft seals.

They are a red bronze material, and are designed for RIGHT and LEFT because they are grooved to drive the oil back inside the tube toward the differential case.

I don't plan to replace these with conventional seals, they are going to remain, and I think the reason the oil was flowing out past the seals was due to water in the differential case, which overfilled the tubes.

The mystery is still how the water got inside...

 

Time to find a key and make some spider tabbed lock washers.

 

 

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Edited by 32buick67 (see edit history)
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Knowing what the top of the engine looked like and now the differential, This car must have been in some deep water.  Look at the rust on the top of the rear cover. On the differential, water can enter at the torque ball as there are no seals there.  Water can enter at the pinion gear adjustment just forward of the pumpkin housing.  Last it can enter at the axle seals which are made to keep oil in not necessarily water out.  Gears look in excellent condition.  Once you clean up the internals of the differential, put some gear marking compound on the ring gear and check whether you need to make a pinion adjustment.

I would consider taking a look inside the transmission at some point.  Crud in the engine, crud in the differential  How did it miss the transmission?

 

You're becoming a 1932 60 series expert!!

 

Bob Engle

 

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Thanks Bob, any success I have is due to others, for sure, just ask my wife!

 

I noticed the numbers etched on the pinion gear face, and there is a procedure in the 1932 Spec&Adj shop manual that I am going to evaluate lash as best I can.

 

There aren't any vents on the diff housing?  Maybe there is enough pressure relief through the pinion bearings up into the torque tube?

 

Tranny is next on the list after I get the rear finished.

 

Mario

 

 

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Prussian blue wear marks shows what looks like to be a clean wear across the face of the teeth in the forward direction.

Reverse direction didn't give much indication on the teeth contact points that I could discern.

Pinion to ring gear lash is 0.006", so its within the spec of 0.008".

Factory etchings are shown on the pinion toe face for setting depth adjustment for those who might be interested.

 

I measured about 12 pints of total fluid drained from the differential, which is far more than the 7.5 pint spec requirement.

I let the drained oil sit a few days and noticed the black oil rise to the surface, such that when draining from the temporary pan into a jug, the black oil was sitting on top of a small amount of brown water-laden oil (maybe about 2 pints in volume).

Maybe the tranny fluid will give me more clues about how so much water got inside the differential, the mystery continues until the next chapter...

 

Time to make a cork cover gasket with some Permatex and start prepping to button up the differential, then on to the new 1/4" x 3/8" key and spider lock washers for the axle.

 

Ciao for now,

Mario

 

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I'm not well versed on the 60 series differential, I don't think tightening the nut will change backlash.  The spider gears are trapped between the inner block and the ring gear housing with the bronze washers between the two.  The nut just locks the gear onto the axle.  Clearance should be .008" between the spider and the washers. This will give .008" axle play.  

 

I forgot to mention that if the gap is excessive, you will need to install thicker bronze washers.

 

Bob Engle

Edited by Robert Engle (see edit history)
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Left clearance is 0.012", right is 0.010", so they are really close to spec.

I might just leave them for now and plan on oversized bronze in the future.

The axles feel nice and tight now, what a difference this teardown is making.

 

Thanks for your help Bob!

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  • 6 months later...

The stamped plate that contains the felt seal is mounted against the backing plate  on the outer side.  5 bolts on a 50 series.  Not sure about 60 series.  Excess diff fluid and too thin a fluid can cause leakage problems through the felt seals.  

 

Bob Engle

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7.5pts is all that is needed per spec.

Don't fill to the bottom of the filler hole like other differentials or you will leak, these are different.

 

You might want to pull a wheel to inspect brake linings, they might be oiled now if the rear diff was overfilled.

While in the hub, also consider new drum bearing grease for the roller bearing.  Also, don't use too much grease, only about 1 tablespoon per the spec is enough.

 

The felt is not a seal in the wheel.

 

I and some others use GL-1 90 from Napa, running in hot weather seams fine, no leaks or gear clash.

 

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On 7/25/2022 at 9:00 PM, Robert Engle said:

The stamped plate that contains the felt seal is mounted against the backing plate  on the outer side.  5 bolts on a 50 series.  Not sure about 60 series.  Excess diff fluid and too thin a fluid can cause leakage problems through the felt seals.  

 

Bob Engle

So the 67 was easy, just pull the brake drum and the felt and cork where right there, well what little was left of them. Very easy repair.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/26/2022 at 7:53 AM, 32buick67 said:

7.5pts is all that is needed per spec.

Don't fill to the bottom of the filler hole like other differentials or you will leak, these are different.

 

You might want to pull a wheel to inspect brake linings, they might be oiled now if the rear diff was overfilled.

While in the hub, also consider new drum bearing grease for the roller bearing.  Also, don't use too much grease, only about 1 tablespoon per the spec is enough.

 

The felt is not a seal in the wheel.

 

I and some others use GL-1 90 from Napa, running in hot weather seams fine, no leaks or gear clash.

 

 

Image 8-31-22 at 7.54 AM.jpg

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On 7/26/2022 at 3:43 AM, smillard said:

i have been adding SAE 90 to keep it full, trying to find SAE 160 but so far no luck finding any.

 

My 36 Pontiac also calls for SAE 160. The reason you can't find it is the standard is deprecated, or so I have been told. I believe SAE 160 was an automotive all-petroleum replacement for the 600W (the "W" is not weight) steam cylinder oil many of the automakers had been using a couple years earlier in transmissions and rear axles.

 

Anyhow, the SAE standards do refer to weight, but are a range of weights. One brand of SAE 90 could be lighter than another brand, as long as both fell into the correct range for SAE 90. Today we have SAE 90, 140, and 250. I have not been able to find anyone able to tell me what the range was for SAE 160. I think it is likely that SAE 250 is a closer substitute than SAE 140.

 

There's no overwhelming advantage to the thicker oil, and I would rather run lighter oil when I can get away with it. Less drag means less heat. @32buick67's suggestion of SAE 90 GL1 sounds like a good one to me. GL1 is basically mineral oil without a bunch of sulfur or whatever it is they put in for hypoid gears. It is probably as close to 30s gear oil as you can get, but will be much higher quality today. It should be safe for all of those bronze thrust washers. The next step up would be a synthetic, but if you go there be sure to get one that is safe for the bronze.

 

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