Peter Gariepy Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 See the AACA Home Page for the formal press release.PEter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Peter, do you know if there will there be more information forthcoming, either in the club magazine or online? This "press release" only has three sentences. A little more information and perhaps a comment or two on potential future actions (if any) would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Not a clue Dave. If i hear more i'll certainly post it.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I think this sucks, Done this right it would have been a good class with good historic cars. And NO, it wouldn't have made more Hot Rods out of old cars.Oh well, I guess the squeaky wheel bearing gets the grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Peter,At first I was against class #37, but then after hearing conflicting stories, I figured that it would be best not to pass judgement without seeing and reading the facts first. Without opening a can of worms, I am wondering what will happen when someone tries to enter a replicar in an AACA meet. Like it or not, those Model 'A' replicars that were built on the pinto chassis will be eligible for AACA next year (they started building those in 1979). On top of that you also have the Chord and Auburn replicars that have been out just as long. At any rate, the good part of the end of class #37 will mean the end of all of the complaints. Either people were shooting from the hip not knowing the facts about the class, or the facts weren't being shared, but either way the whining is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Historical Hot Rods will continue to be discovered, restored to their year of consturction, and admired at car shows, and featured in magazine articles and on TV programs. AACA will NEVER be mentioned, who was the winner in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 I'm glad the AACA made this decision.Good job AACA Board of Directors - you investigated opportunties for the club, and based upon feedback from the membership you decided not to go forward with those opportunities. You did your job. Thank you!---------I consider myself a "car guy" -- antiques, hotrods, race cars, lowriders, rice rockets, modified muscle cars - you name it and I like it. I prefer antiques over the rest but that doesnt deminish my appreciate for cars that don't fall under the "title" of antique.Mixing two genre's of cars - antiques and hotrods - is very confusing. It's like the NHRA accepting restored to original 32 Fords - it just doesnt make sense. Antique car enthusiasts expect antique cars at AACA events - not hotrods. If i want to see and appreciate a hotrod then i'll go to a hotrod show. Does this hurt the AACA? Absolutely not. If I saw a hotrod in a magazine, and it referenced the AACA as it's affiliated club I would immediately be confused - and the AACA loses in that scenario.Just like the CCCA doesn't bend in it's classification of cars, nor should the AACA. Lets be proud of who we are, antique car enthusiasts.Just my humble opinion.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hoover Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Very well said Peter!My personal thanks go out to the AACA Board of Directors for this decision.Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Having read the press release, my eye was drawn to one word in the second paragraph, PRESERVATION. I for one have always felt that meant preserving the vehicle as it was built and delivered by the factory. I do not believe that preserving something that someone may have subsequently done to a vehicle to alter it from its original form falls under that mission statement.Of course, that is just my opinion. Regardless, this entire matter of Class 37 is going to leave one side or the other in this issue unhappy. When it came in, 1937HD45 and like thinkers were very pleased and others were very unhappy. Now everything has done a 180 and those who lauded the change on this forum are now faulting the reversal of policy. You can bet that the formerly unhappy are now happy. This thing was a no win situation for AACA from the beginning. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The issue is dead amd we all will have to accept it. However, I think it is unfortunate that this display class was not given a chance. With all due respect to you Peter and the esteemed Mr. Scotland, why does AACA have a competition class??? It flies in the face of both of your posts, in my humble opinion! Anyway, we all will find something else to argue about down the road. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 what about the trucks with the gold leaf lettering of company logos, or even commercial bodies for that matter. weren't the old trucks shipped as cab and chassis? or is that differant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Steve ~ Good question about why a competition class and not a hot rod class. Maybe it is because most "old car" people are interested in racing in one form or another, while some of them hold a certain level of dislike or even antagonism toward hot rods. Also the blurring of the line between "hot rod" and "street rod" during all of this debate has probably caused the rift to widen. I believe the failure of those "in charge" to adequately have all of the rules in order and clearly explained to the membership before moving ahead created the situation where MANY members and some Regions were ready to leave AACA over the issue. There was no such feeling when the competition classes were established. I believe the Board finally found themselves in a "damned if they do and damned if they don't" situation. In the end they did what they believed to be in the best interest of the AACA.By the way, the esteemed Mr. Scotland was my late father who passed away 14 years ago. The title was not hereditary. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />nearchocolatetown ~ AACA judging rules have always said that the cab and chassis must be judged as to the way they came from the factory. If it was NOT delivered with a factory body, then the aftermarket body would be judged for workmanship and condition and must be authentic to the year of the vehicle. As an example, a 1934 truck with lettering such as this ---THE ABC ROOFING CO. ESTABLISHED 1938 PHONE (303) 555-1212 --- would receive a deduction for the lettering. Having a 1934 vehicle lettered with the established year of 1938 is impossible, and there were no area codes and 7 digit phone #s in 1934.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 thanks hvs, my point is many people keep insisting the aaca is only for "as delivered" vehicles. the can was opened many years ago. the competition class and commercial are not "as delivered". they are always on the mustsee list of classes i look at. i think the powers that be are making a mistake eliminating a class they never gave an honest chance. even though i've never been to pebble beach concours i've followed the success of them accepting historic hotrods. there are really so few i don't think it would ever be a large class anyway. if the aaca is truely for as delivered vehicles, where were all the visored, skirted, foglit, dual mirrored,tissue dispensored cars built? so many of the cars are loaded up with official accessories or painted more desireable colors or optioned up with stuff you know they didn't all come with. how is this differant? nuffsaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 AACA has never had rules that say that if you hang a bunch of aftermarket accessories on your car that you are going to be denied admission to the judging field. It only says that if you do show the car for judging with those accessories that there will be deductions taken for all non authentic accessories. But if you take 2 VW front halves and put them together as one car, that will be denied access to the judging field. It was all built by VW, but not in that form.Frankly, we probably should never have admitted chopped up stock cars, but having made that mistake, if in fact it was a mistake, we should not be bound to continue making more of the same type of mistakes. That is the trouble with precedents, set one and everyone feels that you must continue down the same path forever. Just my opinion for whatever it is worth.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 To all my friends here on the forum. You had to be there, Ballroom Level, Wyndham "C". Documented Race Cars 10:00-11:45am. I walked into the salon looking for Jerry Duncan, not knowing he was not informed about the rescinded class 37. He was in an animated discussion with Jimmy Etter of Pittsburg about not getting the courtesy call he should have received to save him the lousy snowy trip to Philly Saturday morning. I finally introduced myself and explained to him that a lot of Directors and Hershey itself had gotten heated e-mails, letters and other correspondence of dismay and confusion over this class. In the middle of speaking to Jerry, a gentleman asked me how I knew about Jerry coming and that's when I met the great Bruce Lawson of drag race fame. We all sat down, and after introductions from Lynn Paxton of "Roundy-Round" racing fame, I realized I was in the midst of very famous people. I also must say, they were very interested in the preservation of race cars and "Historic Hot Rods". The other speakers included; Don Meyer-NJ, Buster Warke-PA, Gorden White-Va.,and Jim Robinson of PA. They explained the procedures for authenticating race cars and other pointers for getting a historic race car in the AACA race car class. After Lynn Paxton saw that the smoke had stopped coming out of Jerry Duncan's ears(Lynn's words), Jerry had the podium to explain class 37 as he and others had intended it sat up. After his explanation, we had the question & answer session. After basic questions were answered, there were 2 different questions from the audience showing serious concern about class 37 even being started. After Jerry and members of the audience explained how the class was set up, the 2 questionees who were originally against the class said, "If we'd known this, we wouldn't have been opposed to the class". It was a very informative meeting with very knowledgable people. I'm so glad I made that seminar. I learned so much, and I wish I had more time to add other insights. Please "e-mail" me with questions if you like. I'm really behind in my business because of my first Philly trip and can't keep an eye on this forum early this week. Thanks, (You missed a good one, Bob!) Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Didn't want to edit this comment. For those of you who care, On behalf of the AACA I thanked him for traveling to Philly and apologized for his inconvenience. He did get a large round of applause. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Wayne, Glad you had a good time in Philly, congratulations on your award. I'll bet the guy from Pittsburgh was Jim Etter, one of the Race Car Certification Committee members. Bruce Larson may be the first guy to win an AACA National First Place Award with the car he owned and drove to an NHRA class win at the US Nationals. He gave his NHRA funny car to the Smithsonian after he won the Championship that year. Gordon White took his Offy midget to Bonneville after he won his National First Place Award and set a Land Speed Record in its class. Everyone you mentioned is a highly knowledgeable guy in his field of interest. Combined thay have helped with the restorations of some of the most historic race cars to be seen today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Yes, Bob! And these same people were to authenicate class 37 also. Very respectable people who know what they are doing. I feel so sorry for Jerry Duncan after all he did for the club. Lack of comunication was the key to the failure of this companion class to the race cars. It will be done better next time. Check out Bruce looking sharp and Jerry is at the podium. Wayne Sorry about the poor pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Most of you know I had no real opinion one way or the other on this subject. If it had passed, I would have walked through the hot rods and taken a look, but It's no big deal if I can't either. Given the sort of "underhanded" way in which this class was pushed through the system, it is probably just as well that it has been rescinded. I wonder how many members out there that would not have been opposed to it if it had been handled in a different fashion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Model A Hal, Howard and I were just talking about that today. For whatever reason, the correct information was never sent through the regions to explain this new class. Maybe they should begin new classes at "Philly" from now on, where you can have seminars explaining new classes without having speculation as the only information avenue. I understand that a few good ideas have fell through the cracks of misinformation before because of disorganization and misunderstandings. You have to keep your Regions informed to be able to make changes in a club this large, I would think. Just my thoughts(I'm starting to sound like Howard, I guess). <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Careful Wayne. When you start sounding like me you can get your self in a mess of trouble. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_RAH Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Sheesh, You guys remind me of High School debating class. One week we would take a subject, ANY subject and make a case FOR it like our lives depended on it, then the following week make an equally convincing case AGAINST it. Rods, or not rods? Is that the question??? I think not! This entire debate is more political in nature and even more complicated than most are willing to accept. As I see it, in my humble opinion, this class 37 was the final straw in the diversification of, and logarithmic expansion of classes into a good ole' club for all people. No longer just 'Antique Automobiles' (whatever your personal definition thereof means) but a class for everyone. Have you ever heard the story of the frog being thrown into hot water? Of course he will jump right out if the water is too tepid. But, put him in luke warm water and just keep adding classes over time and he will accept his ultimate fate of a club for all people with a class for anything even remotely relevanmt to Automobiles!! I'm sure these Hot Rod 'authentification people' were quite responsible people and very good at their little bit of history, but as was pointed out repeatedly, these modified vehicles do NOT belong in a show of Antique Automobiles. And, I will leave the subject there! Rodger "Dodger" Hartley 1915 Dodge Brothers Roadster 1928 Dodge Brothers Std.6 Cabriolet 1934 Dodge Brothers KC pickup 1958 BMW Isetta 300 motocoupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Binger Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I have a question for Wayne. If what you say is true about the lack ofthe correct information about class 37 tothe AACA membership, then why didyou have to apologize to people for thebad judgment of board members and thejudging committee? They are the onesthat screwed this up. Why can't theyapologize for them selves? Why do youhave to do this for the entire club? Wereyou asked by board members to do this? Inquiring minds want to know. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Dan!, You're asking me to explain to you how the AACA system works? This was my first trip to Philly and I certainly don't know how new classes are put together or who does the followthrough work to ensure that everything works correctly. Guess I haven't read the big book yet. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The thing is, being involved with regional work I, and you, know that committees are set up to iron out little problems and make decisions as to how classes are set up and put together. Then the work is delegated to different people in their respective regions. I'm sure you know all this. Bad judgement? I don't know. I'd say it was too hastily put together for whatever reason and that led to all the confusion and misinformation being spread around. I would have loved to have been one of the guys involved in the committee working on this class. Haven't paid my dues yet I'm afraid. I have no idea why or if anyone apologized to anyone about this mess. I was just basically apologizing to Jerry Duncan as he was the most disappointed and upset about all his work going to "pot" when I first saw him Saturday. He was asked to do this job, not the other way around. I think the directors, saw that there was too much opposition from the regions to keep this class onboard. You should be proud that President Raines and Dir. Russ Fisher rescinded this class and accepted the member's wishes. I hope my thoughts came across correctly on this subject. I wasn't asked by any board member to do anything, but I'll say I was involved in the class by "being at Philadelphia to learn more about the class,the club, and meet the great people that make up our club". I'm a rodder at heart, but I like antique cars too, and I think enough of the AACA to become a life member this year. The thing is, if you're a member don't try to tear a club apart over issues, work with people to solve them. I hope that answers your questions, Dan. I wish you could have been there. We'd have shown you a great time. Just ask Bruce Wheeler or any of my new friends. Thanks, Wayne Burgess(My Real Name <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I have to agree with you Wayne, I am not fully versed on the class #37 issue, but I do know that it definately appears to be the victim of poor planning and poor communication. As good or bad as the class might have been, we can take this as a lesson learned on what NOT to do in the developement of future classes. You can only learn by your mistakes.PS. I go back on the force tonight for the first time since 2/25/02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 RW, great post and I applaud your rational thinking. Congratulations on ecoming a life-member. Everyone is entitled to their opinion BUT the health of AACA should be paramount after everything is said and done. Unlike you, I am a antique guy at heart (brass-era) but as I have said before, I was at Pebble and this class, done right, would not have been counter-productive to AACA.I hope some day it can be revisited. Every club needs to constantly review the needs and wishes of its' members or face distinction. Having too narrow a focus has led some clubs to fall by the wayside. The one overwhelming reason that I have enjoyed AACA (besides the people) is the breadth of history and technology you can see on a show field at one time. I love the competition cars and get a kick out of the two-wheelers. While brass cars are my favorite, I am starting to think of restoring something more modern. This in part, because of some of the cars I have seen at AACA shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassbus Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Too bad. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I would have enjoyed viewing historical Hot Rods in a place where they could have been featured in the correct perspective. Every year I look forward to seeing the historic race cars. To me, that is the best part of the show. ---------------------------------"When you ride with Bill Maher, you ride with a fruitcake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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