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1967 430 sputtering/stalling at idle/park


60s GM Fan

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Okay so my 67 430 runs well when I'm driving but it'll sputter/stall at a light or sometimes in park.  I noticed it does appear to be running a bit rich.  Is this a mixture issue or something else?  I noticed that I have one of those metal fuel filters in between the fuel pump and the carburetor and I know those can be problematic sometimes.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

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I would check the pressure you are getting out of the fuel pump, as it's not unheard of that the newer ones fail out of the box.  I would also examine that extra fuel filter, as there was not one there originally.  It may be restricting fuel enough to cause some vapor lock symptoms.  

 

I had a similar problem develop on my 67 Electra.  One solution was to install an electric fuel pump and filter along the frame rail to "assist" the manual pump, and that helped, but I was still getting some symptoms similar to yours.  We finally dug into what was a recently rebuilt carburetor and found that the gasket used under the air horn was missing a tiny piece which caused an air leak under certain conditions.  With the right gasket in there the problem was solved.  I technically didn't need the electric fuel pump but I've left it on for now.   

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A fuel filter issue would cause problems at cruise, not at idle.

 

Not saying this is your problem, but we have had many prospective "carburetor" customers relate the same symptoms. My first question is always "have you or someone else installed an electronic conversion in the distributor? If so, upgrade to points and condenser". The upgrade fixes LOTS of these issues. Cannot recall when someone called me with electronic conversion issues at cruise, always at idle.

 

Jon

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Agree with Chris--start with basics--especially with  points and  condenser , many times i have found

that previous supposedly good mechanics  have changed  electronics  but  not correct.

Always   do electrics first then go to  fuel  and other items. .What happens alot is the points can actually  close up 

because of  no lube on   distributor cam  over years, and  end up with a gap of   from 5 to 8 thou, this causes alot of problems 

as it  developes  pits and holes in   points , so condenser can not do its job correctly--always change both  points and condenser.

Like John said   check spark plug wires,   and  advance system on distributer  and vacuums.

Edited by Wayne R (see edit history)
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The only filter on my 67 Electra originally (other than the sock on the fuel sender in the tank) was in the fuel inlet in the carburetor itself.  When I had my sputtering at idle issue that was the first thing I checked and it was clean, but I changed it anyway.  By the way, I run the original points set up and I also changed those and the condensor out, along with the cap and spark plugs and that made no difference.  I do agree though, if you run an electronic replacement for your points, to go back to points and see if that helps.

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With all of the glory sung (in former forum posts) about the Pertronix electronic ignition replacing ignition points, I find it interesting that an "electronic ignition conversion" would cause an idling issue.  FWIW

 

What I CAN mention is that there should be some special "point grease" which should be applied to the rubbing block on the point set so that the rubbing block will not wear before its time (used to be about 12-15K+ miles, back then).  When it wears, the point gap and related "dwell" reading will change, which will also affect the base ignition timing, which when not correct, might contribute to the idling issues you mention.

 

Check and adjust the DWELL to spec, FIRST.  Then set the base timing SECOND.  Then adjust the idle mixture screws and hot idle speed screw, if needed.  If the distributor has the "window", you can adjust the points with an Allen wrench with the engine running (very convenient!).

 

I had an issue on my '68 LeSabre 350 with it intermittently and randomly dieing, even while running on the Interstate.  If I could "catch it before it died", I could wildly pump the accel pedal and it would keep running.  When it happened one night on the way to my shadetree shop, I decided it was time to do something.  I noticed the fuel pump was moving as the engine was running.  Not knowing how old it was, I figured that was a good place to start.  Changed the pump, started the engine, and it ran/sounded better than it ever had since I got the car.  So, end of problem.  I'd already done the plugs, wires, and such.

 

Generally, if the car is runing so rich that it will not stay idling, there should probably be black smoke coming from the tail pipe.  With the spark plugs having soft, black soot on them, too.

 

The common fuel filter is the one in the carb fuel inlet.  The OEM could have been a paper element fuel filter, but the common one was the gold "rock" filter.  To me, they should be more prone to clogging than an external "can" filter, due to their smaller size and surface area.  FWIW

 

One check . . . with the car hot and idling, when it starts to die, let it die.  When it does, remove the air cleaner assy and see if the accel pump has any output when you move the throttle level.  Usually, you can hear the pump either sputter, pump fuel, or pump air, by observation.  This test will determine if you have a fuel supply issue.

 

ALSO check to see that the gas cap is correct for the car!  NOT to forget to check/replace ALL of the rubber fuel line hose in the system, front to back.  Ethanol'd fuel deteriorates the rubber from the inside out, so that might be an issue/flow restriction, too.

 

Hopefully, when this issue is fixed, you can confidently enjoy the car.

 

Just some thoughts and observations,

NTX5467

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On 10/26/2021 at 9:54 PM, NTX5467 said:

I find it interesting that an "electronic ignition conversion" would cause an idling issue.  FWIW

Well known and documented issue with Pertrtonix Ignitor II on low idle cars, like a Powerglide Corvair.

 

On 10/26/2021 at 9:54 PM, NTX5467 said:

but the common one was the gold "rock" filter.  To me, they should be more prone to clogging than an external "can" filter, due to their smaller size and surface area.  FWIW

I agree, and that's why I install inline filters where they are hidden, not on top of the engine. I know, harder to change, some locations drain the fuel tank on you while changing them😲, but cleaner install with no extra rubber fuel line on the engine. WIX 33032 for 5/16" lines, 33033 for 3/8" lines. Sure, metal, can't see inside, but no leaks from all the separate sections of the aftermarket glass type.😉

 

On 10/26/2021 at 6:17 PM, dmfconsult said:

I would check the pressure you are getting out of the fuel pump, as it's not unheard of that the newer ones fail out of the box.

True! And pressure too high is a common issue. The spring rate is too high.  To those that do no know, the spring is the item that makes the output pressure. The cam link does NOT produce output pressure, it just causes the pump to suck fuel in.

 

Old vacuum gauges had a fuel pump pressure section, just connect the rubber hose to the output line of the fuel pump (might take some creative rubber hose /adapter work) and crank the engine a few revolutions. Specifications are in the shop manual for hour car. Since the car runs at cruse, I would not check volume specification. 

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
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  • 2 weeks later...

beware that the float in the Quadrojet's can have issues and that new floats are available.  Unless your carb kit has a new float you may want to look at Quadrojetparts.com.  They have plastic and brass floats available. 

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