alsancle Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I can't decide if this is more interesting or the GTO I just posted. I think the GTO is a much better idea. I can tell you from personal experience the Stutz is a 30k plus engine rebuild. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1929-stutz-model-m-cabriolet/ This 1929 Stutz Model M cabriolet is a non-running project finished in two-tone red and black over a tan vinyl interior. It retains a 322ci inline-eight paired with a three-speed manual transmission. Equipment includes a tan convertible top, luggage rack, ventilating windshield, rumble seat, cowl lights, and dual side-mount spares. The car was purchased by its late owner in the 1960s and reportedly spent approximately two decades on display at the Buffalo Transportation Pierce-Arrow Museum in Buffalo, New York, prior to 2018. This Model M is now offered on dealer consignment with two keys, historical documents, and New York registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 AJ, This checks several boxes and preys on my weaknesses. Thanks for posting it, I don't regularly cruise BAT, but bounce over when someone brings a car to my attention. I wonder where this will end up. my Hoosier roots are "pinging" on this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 The motor number is from the 1930 range, and I wonder why they painted the windshield frame and left the chassis oily, filthy and rusty. Its vinyl interior is no-no, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Not an Stutz expert, just a fan. But I always think of M's as having bolt on wheels ? Did some early cars still have knuckle drive Buffalo's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 The 29 is Buffalo and somewhere in production they switched to the bolt ons. You will see them both ways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rg171352 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Wasn’t this car sold at an estate sale in the last two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 This car is almost screaming at me "bid, bid bid!" I know it has a lot wrong with a, but what a car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, ericmac said: This car is almost screaming at me "bid, bid bid!" I know it has a lot wrong with a, but what a car! No, it’s screaming I need fifty grand to become a driver that is reliable. And someone who knows what they are doing.........that 215 Gemmer is gonna be hammered also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 I like the clock and piano key that comes with the car...well it is coming from a museum then. ...interesting differential out back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, prewarnut said: I like the clock and piano key that comes with the car...well it is coming from a museum then. ...interesting differential out back. Timken worm drive. Lowers the entire car 4-5"s. Also used on the eight cylinder Stearns Knight and probably a couple of other cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, edinmass said: No, it’s screaming I need fifty grand to become a driver that is reliable. And someone who knows what they are doing.........that 215 Gemmer is gonna be hammered also. You know I agree. There is a 99.9% chance those duraluminum rods are still in there. George is making steel ones now, right? I would say that if someone was going to pour their blood, sweat and tears in to a prewar car this would be a pretty good one to do it with. Edited October 3, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 9 hours ago, edinmass said: No, it’s screaming I need fifty grand to become a driver that is reliable. And someone who knows what they are doing.........that 215 Gemmer is gonna be hammered also. Maybe so, I’d put all the money in mechanical, and drive it just as it is…..neat car 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 My two bits, for what it's worth, is if one is going to commit a significant portion of the family fortune and share of time to a project, this Stutz would be worth that commitment. As long as the major expense and difficulty is understood, go into it with your eyes open, motivated by the prospect of enjoying of one of the great cars of that era upon completion. And if you take the plunge, please take us along and share your experiences with a blog of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 4 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: My two bits, for what it's worth, is if one is going to commit a significant portion of the family fortune and share of time to a project, this Stutz would be worth that commitment. As long as the major expense and difficulty is understood, go into it with your eyes open, motivated by the prospect of enjoying of one of the great cars of that era upon completion. And if you take the plunge, please take us along and share your experiences with a blog of the process. i think a nice running driving one of these sold for 100 something at Hershey a few years ago. 10 years ago Steve Snyder sold the short wheelbase version that was running but with an Engine noise for around 50 K. What I am unsure of is which car I would rather play with. This coupe or this Custom body car. Base price will probably be noise in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 I went back and found the other car I was thinking of. Same body, but on a later SV chassis. Also long wheelbase. Sold for 143k all in back in 2015. It was a decent older restoration. You would spend a couple hundred grand to make the subject car as decent as this one was. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf15/hershey/lots/r113-1931-stutz-sv-16-convertible-coupe/180664 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, alsancle said: I went back and found the other car I was thinking of. Same body, but on a later SV chassis. Also long wheelbase. Sold for 143k all in back in 2015. It was a decent older restoration. You would spend a couple hundred grand to make the subject car as decent as this one was. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf15/hershey/lots/r113-1931-stutz-sv-16-convertible-coupe/180664 AJ, I'm not trying to start a fight or stir up controversy, but I am curious. What would have been the "close contemporaries of this stutz? Packard 740 Convertible coupe? Pierce A or B convertible coupe? Lincoln L conv coupe? Cadillac 353 Conv coupe? I started a thread on "Roadsters" that are Classics from the earlier years. I'm curious how this Stutz fits into the pecking order of the 1930 era. I realize it isn't a Roadster, but if you compare apples to apples (wheelbase, engine, price, reputation)......where does this stutz fit into the "beauty contest"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 By the time the Model M came along, Stutz was just about out of the major market........The SV and DV were great cars as well, but in very small numbers, many or most with outdated coachwork. Don’t get me wrong....I’m a HUGE Stutz fan and I would kill for a DV-32. That said.....the worm drive was outdated and old fashioned. They attempted to adapt, but no money was available. Most cars, 1932 was a leap in chassis and engine performance.......except Stutz, who’s steering box and chassis were unchanged from 1929 but still being used in 1933. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 What Ed said. State of the art 1928 but dated by 1932. Both the coupes have 145” wheelbases. Which was Packards custom wheelbase. It is more interesting than your basic Packard or Caddy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 And just like that the steam car idea gets pushed back in the corner... Stutz is very cool! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 11 hours ago, John Bloom said: AJ, I'm not trying to start a fight or stir up controversy, but I am curious. What would have been the "close contemporaries of this stutz? Packard 740 Convertible coupe? Pierce A or B convertible coupe? Lincoln L conv coupe? Cadillac 353 Conv coupe? I started a thread on "Roadsters" that are Classics from the earlier years. I'm curious how this Stutz fits into the pecking order of the 1930 era. I realize it isn't a Roadster, but if you compare apples to apples (wheelbase, engine, price, reputation)......where does this stutz fit into the "beauty contest"? The late years Stutz are essentially a progressive engine type in an increasingly archaic chassis. Varying on price and wheelbase, pretty much those you listed would have been 'cross-shopped' at the time, though the Stutz considered a 'niche' maker. Beyond the standard factory-bodied styles, Stutz offered an extensive choice of custom-bodies with style and verve. A custom-bodied DV-32 would be the choicest and most expensive. Not to cast aspersions, but Stutz was trading on its performance reputation to a degree by these late cars. A first 298 ci then 322 ci straight eight, even with overhead cams, still puts it among the smaller-size Classic powerplants of that era. Ed will give you the experienced perspective on them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 Steve, the OHC and later DOHC is what distinguishes late Stutz from all the flathead eights everybody else was making. Because of the worm drive they always sat lower than everyone else too. There was done very cool styling with the custom bodies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 AJ: OHC & DOHC plus lower stance were their claim to fame by then, which with the extensive selection of custom coachwork made Stutz a unique choice. Otherwise, a custom-bodied DuPont G could also fulfill the role. They mounted a faux-valve cover on the flathead eight to make it look the part... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Any guesses on a hammer price from those more informed than me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29StutzM Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 With the introduction of the "M", Stutz made only minor changes to their 8 until the DV came out and the M and SV engines were both underrated horsepower wise. FYI-not sure what the bumper is on this car but it is not the stock 29 Stutz bumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I like the low roofline on this car as well, very sporty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) Steve: Any Stutz is cool! That said, it’s the DV-32 cars that entertain me. Properly built and tweaked they run great.........seems the DV in our garage has pop up pistons, hot cams, and tricked out carb and ignition. How to describe it? SCARY FAST! I tend not to drive it much.......it’s too fun to spin it up to 3500 rpm.........pulls hard and is a joy to drive. Only down side to them.......the very interesting ones are seven figures plus.........not for poor car mechanics! Edited October 4, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Ed: True, Any Stutz is cool, that's why there are "Stutz Nutz"! Someone, please find the DV-32 Continental Coupe by Waterhouse...even if you have to make it out of thin air! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Ed: True, Any Stutz is cool, that's why there are "Stutz Nutz"! Someone, please find the DV-32 Continental Coupe by Waterhouse...even if you have to make it out of thin air! Steve How about it’s Irish twin......the Waterhouse Convertible Victoria? 😏 I must confess, I was driving it last week! 😎 Edited October 4, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 57 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Ed: True, Any Stutz is cool, that's why there are "Stutz Nutz"! Someone, please find the DV-32 Continental Coupe by Waterhouse...even if you have to make it out of thin air! Steve the one last seen at an auto show in Maine around 1932? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 5 hours ago, John Bloom said: Any guesses on a hammer price from those more informed than me? 30-40k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, alsancle said: the one last seen at an auto show in Maine around 1932? This one...haven't seen images of the "Irish twin......the Waterhouse Convertible Victoria" or maybe it doesn't come to mind just now... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Here is the open car……looks substantially different today…….less junk on it, better colors. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, alsancle said: 30-40k Sounds light to me…….and I never say that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, edinmass said: Sounds light to me…….and I never say that! 40k plus 30k engine rebuild, plus 15k more to get it moving and you have 85k in to a running driving car that is cosmetically compromised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 2:50 PM, alsancle said: 30-40k sold for 60k. I don’t know what I'm talking about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 So 105 K to get it, then get it running and driving , yet still looking long in the tooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, alsancle said: sold for 60k. I don’t know what I'm talking about. I love it when I’m right......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, edinmass said: I love it when I’m right......... twice a day… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I know much money still to be spent, but 60G's does not sound too outrageous. There might be hope yet . Another decade of this trend and who knows ! Trouble is I will be in my mid 70's in a decade and possibly running out of time. But still the dream lives. Greg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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