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I'm filling up with regular Gas costing $3.39/Gallon and the car specification calls for using the High Priced gas.


Doug Novak
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Count your blessings. Here in southern Ontario regular (with less than 10% ethanol) is 1.35 per litre. There are 3.79 litres in a US gallon which makes it $5.11 if my calculations are right. Our "illustrious" Prime Minister plans on raising the "carbon tax" even higher in the years ahead. 

Edit  I should have added the currency exchange to that equation. It comes out to $4.04 USD.

Jim

Edited by J.H.Boland (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Willy said:

I only use premium because it has no ethanol - for my chainsaws, garden tractor, '47 Ford 9N, weed eater, 1998 Winnibago - at $4.49/gal. The only vehicles I use regular are our Subaru and '52 Dodge pickup. 

Our premium gas has ethanol or we can buy premium minus the corn for about $1.00 more. 

 

Ethanol in your 52 Dodge might harm some parts.

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Here I can get 87 non ethanol for about the same price as ethanol premium. Regular with ethanol is about $3.70, premium or 87 non ethanol is about a dollar more.

Just to clarify, I use 87 Non-Ethanol. The Rambler 6 is pretty low compression so higher octane is just wasting money.

Edited by AL1630 (see edit history)
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I think Doug is asking what GRADE is best for

his 1960's and 1970's cars.  The price is interesting,

but he wants to know what grade we are using.

 

Doug, we might give you better answers if we knew

what cars, with what engines, you have.  I use premium

(93 octane) for my cars from 1957 up to the early 1970's,

when compression ratios were reduced for running on

low-lead or no-lead gas.  For cars in the early 1970's or later,

my cars do fine on regular unleaded (87 octane) gasoline.

 

Whether your cars are driven daily or not should not affect

the octane you use.

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Depending on the car model and engine, premium fuel might have been the recommended one to use.  As a pump jockey in the late 1960s I would see some of the fuel filler caps had “premium fuel only” marked on the cap.  At that time the price difference between regular and premium was less than a nickel.  In the 1970s the changeover to low lead and unleaded fuel along with a decrease in engine compression made more engines run good on lower octane fuel.  If you have high performance V8s it would seem premium fuel is still required.  If it’s a Chevy 283 with a two barrel carb most likely it will run fine on 87 or 89 grade fuel.  One big issue is making sure the fuel system is fitted with ethanol compatible pieces.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Willy said:

I only use premium because it has no ethanol - for my chainsaws, garden tractor, '47 Ford 9N, weed eater, 1998 Winnibago - at $4.49/gal. The only vehicles I use regular are our Subaru and '52 Dodge pickup. 

 

  I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane!  Am I mis-informed?

 

  Ben

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1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane!  Am I mis-informed?

 

Yes ethanol raises octane (prevents pre-ignition or pinging) But that does not necessarily mean premium has more ethanol than regular. In fact you can easily have a regular with ethanol while the premium has no ethanol. Ethanol might be added to a very low grade gas to bring it up to Reguilar octane level, while a high grade gas may rate as premium octane level without the addition of any ethanol.

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1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane!  Am I mis-informed?

 

It's complicated. Yes it raises octane. Maybe that explains the crappiness of the fuel that makes up the rest of E10 blend, considering that in many areas both are 87 octane.

 

6 hours ago, Doug Novak said:

What grade GAS are you using.

 

E-10 blends. I drive my cars regularly and don't think I can depend on getting ethanol-free everywhere, so I figure I have to get the car running at it's best on E-10.

 

E-10 has a well established reputation for turning to varnish faster than fuel without Ethanol. I have not done any controlled testing, but based on rotten gas I have encountered I think it is probably true.

 

Even if it does not rot faster, Ethanol has a well established reputation for attacking fuel systems, promoting rust (and the attendant leaks and fuel sender problems) in gas tanks, attacking elastomers in carburetors and fuel pumps, and even attacking the metal castings.

 

I try not to leave any E-10 in a car while it sits over the winter. If I didn't use a car much, and only used it locally, I wouldn't use E-10 at all.

 

 

 

 

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I use regular gas (with ethanol) in my 57 T-Bird. There are no stations local to where I live that dispense non-ethanol gas. 

As for the octane I use, that is strictly regular 87. The original 57 312 CID engine had a 9.7 compression ratio and was supposed to need premium fuel. My car has replacement heads that lower the compression ration to 8.8. I have never had spark knock (detonation) using regular gas. As long as your car runs well on regular gas, does not have spark knock, and does not diesel when the engine is stopped than that is what I would stick with. 

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1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

  I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane!  Am I mis-informed?

 

  Ben


Yup, raises octane and delivers less energy per gallon, and has a lower specific gravity. And on paper the stoichometry ratio is the same......but it isn’t.

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If you guys keep talking about Premium, or Super or whatever everyone is going to get confused. It would promote apples to apples comparisons If you call these out by octane and the percentage of Ethanol.

 

If you travel across a good portion of the country (and I just did!) you will find some fairly bizarre fuel marketing, at least compared to the Pacific Northwest.

 

Here in Washington "Unleaded" or "Regular Unleaded" is 87 octane, usually with Ethanol, but if is without they will advertise it as such and charge more.

 

Mid-grade is 89 octane, priced above Unleaded, and was the supposed replacement for 88 octane "(Leaded) Regular" when that went away. Leaded Regular had been cheaper than unleaeded, so that made no sense but it is what they did. They must have needed something to put in the nozzle. It almost always contains Ethanol.

 

Unleaded Super or Unleaded Premium is 92 octane, and occasionally 93. This is the most expensive, and almost always contains ethanol.

 

Occasionally all 3 grades will be offered in non-ethanol versions, with a big sign saying so, but that is fairly rare.

 

Now, if you travel to the center of the country......

 

In at least 2 states I drove through, 87 octane "Regular" (no Ethanol) and 87 octane "Super" or "Premium" (with 10 percent ethanol) were the two choices. Regular was more expensive than Super.

 

I encountered 85.5 octane gas in a couple of places. That doesn't exist in Washington.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg for fuel labeling weirdness as you cross state lines. Given an hour to think about it and dig through my gas receipts I could probably come up with a lot more.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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The mountain states such as Colorado and Wyoming have lower octanes to compensate for higher elevation. Regular might be 85 octane, mid grade 87, and premium 90 or 91. In the mid Atlantic are Sunoco has four grades, 87, 89, 91, and 93. Of course there are also different blends based on the season. 

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Of course the original reason to use ethanol was to extend the amount of gas that we were buying overseas. Now that we are an exporter the reason is to keep farmers happy.  I can’t get any fuel within 40 or 50 miles of me that doesn’t have it included.  I run 87 octane in everything I own.  Small engines get run dry in fall or spring depending on what they are. Cars get a good dose of Sta-bil when taking their winter’s nap.

Edited by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)
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8 minutes ago, 1957Birdman said:

In the mid Atlantic are Sunoco has four grades, 87, 89, 91, and 93

Not enough choices! 🤣

 

I've seen a station with five!

 

 

5 Selection Blender Pump.jpg

 

These are all blender pumps around here. Just two tanks in the ground, mixes according to driver request. I think 5 choices just confuses people, but I have an 84 F150 that could probably run on 88, pings lightly on 87.

 

Once computer control and knock sensors became available, most any car will run on 87, just noticeable power loss.

 

No non-ethanol in my county or any other county in Virginia where we still have emission testing. I drive to a neighboring county to by non-ethanol for lawn equipment and generator fuel. Too much trouble for cars unless I'm going that way.

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
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A few Wawa Convenience stores in my area and other parts of Pennsylvania sell Ethanol Free gas which is 89 Octane. They also sell the 87, 89 and 93 Octane Ethanol grades as well. I use the Ethanol free in all my old cars, my lawn mower, gas weed whacker and snow blower. I see a LOT of lawn care companies and even a few people with boats filling up with Ethanol free as well.

 

Last time I checked, the Ethanol Free gas was 35 cents more per gallon than the 87 Octane with ethanol. At that price, the Ethanol free is about 3 cents/gallon more than the 89 Octane with ethanol.

 

FYI, for those coming to Fall Hershey, if you see a Wawa and their sign shows a gasoline price in BLUE, that is the Ethanol Free grade of fuel. Just in case you need fuel for your old vehicle and might want to try a tank of Ethanol free.

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Fuel grade means octane rating, the best for your car depends on the engine's compression ratio but also other factors. If you have a muscle car with 10.5 to 1 compression and a high performance tune meaning advanced timing you will need 93 octane premium and it may still ping on that if you drive it like a muscle car. If you have a basic low compression V-8 cruiser and drive it normally 87 will probably be fine. I have two hobby cars with high compression V-8s and high miles but they have automatics and lazy rear end gears and they are driven as cruisers, they both work great with 87 octane. 

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40 minutes ago, TTR said:

Having never seen anything like that, I’m curiously waiting for OP to show proof of “the car specification calls for using the High Price gas” ?

 

 

Huh?

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Plenty of cars over the years have specified a minimum octane requirement in the owners manual.

 

Original post said:

 

On 10/1/2021 at 11:23 AM, Doug Novak said:

What grade GAS are you using. My cars are 60's and 70's all V8's. NOT MY DAILY DRIVERS.

 

 

 

 

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I live in Prescott AZ. I am at 5,000 ft. elevation. I run 87 octane on all of my cars for 80% of the year. The only time I switch to 92 is in the heat of summer ( that's not all summer). The new NISSAN's (2) run 87 all year round, the two mid 60's VW's run 87 all year round. The 76 Oldsmobile is no problem with 87.  On a 90 degree day my 428 Pontiac Catalina with 10:00 to 1 compression, my 455 Tempest with 10:00 to 1 and my 389 Catalina with 10:25 to 1 will need 92 octane, but otherwise 87 octane. When I lived at the beach ( sea level ) the Pontiac's always needed at least 92 and if I raced them 100LL or 110 racing fuel for sure.

It's amazing the difference 5,000 feet makes.

BTW filled the NISSAN truck yesterday at $2.69 a gallon.   

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19 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

Huh?

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Plenty of cars over the years have specified a minimum octane requirement in the owners manual.

 

Original post said:

 

 

 

 

 

I was, with tongue-in-cheek, referring to a bit oddly phrased title of this discussion and while at the time of posting I also realized my sense of humor may not be obvious to everyone, decided to post it anyway.
 

So basically yes, after 40+ years into cars, I’m quite aware of octane recommendations by many motor vehicle manufacturers, but never seen any (printed) reference to “Price” when they’re recommending fuel.


I apologize for any confusion this might’ve caused

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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On 10/1/2021 at 2:47 PM, Willy said:

I only use premium because it has no ethanol - for my chainsaws, garden tractor, '47 Ford 9N, weed eater, 1998 Winnibago - at $4.49/gal. The only vehicles I use regular are our Subaru and '52 Dodge pickup. 

Premium gas does indeed have ethanol in it.  All states require ethanol in their gas, but some states allow ethanol-free gas to be sold and it is so labeled.

 

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I'm blind too! Did not see the price reference. Going in for cataract surgery real soon!😉

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20 hours ago, kgreen said:

Premium gas does indeed have ethanol in it.  All states require ethanol in their gas, but some states allow ethanol-free gas to be sold and it is so labeled.

 

 

 Latest I was able to find,  2015, only seven states REQUIRE ethanol to be blended in.   

 

  Ben

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48 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Latest I was able to find,  2015, only seven states REQUIRE ethanol to be blended in.   

 

  Ben

I've also searched for a definitive, current answer and cannot find one.  The only data that I can find is that roughly 10% of all fuel consumed in this country contains ethanol (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=27&t=10).  As you have found, most data seems old with no current discussion.

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Will you still want Premium Gas when it goes up to $5.00 per gallon? Or will you want an EV Car.

Will Gas additives such as STA-Bil 360 Marine help make Regular gas concerns less worry some ?

Ethanol Fuel Treatment and Stabilizers are for synthetic corrosion control and said to be for all 2 and 4 cycle gas engines.

I'm not suggesting one way or another to use this product for car engines and they do not mention it, but they do not warn against it?

I assume there is an ethanol treatment out there that is similar and blended for automotive engines. 

 

Earlier question I was asked what cars I have. 

1968 AMC AMX w/ 343 V8, 1969 Chevy C10  with newer /350 V8, and 1974 Porsche 914 with flat 4 cylinders.

The 68 AMC is ready to go to Hershey for the AACA fall National Meet.

Edited by Doug Novak
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The time to worry about fuel economy and required fuel type is when you are picking your car, not afterwards.  If I select a car which requires higher octane (which I did), I will buy premium or blend for octane.  Premium gas is over $5/gal in many parts of the world and in parts of this country too.  Most newer cars will operate on lower octane fuel without detonation, but at the expense of power.

 

The question of materials compatibility with ethanol is more complex.  Fuel treatments are formulated to mitigate certain issues with ethanol, not all. A corrosion inhibitor will not necessarily help chemical swelling of rubber parts. Don't put on a bandage if you have a cough.  You do realize that automotive engines are 4 cycle engines, right?

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If it’s not a daily driver the cost of the fuel should not be a huge factor in enjoying the car.  Guys with boats are used to paying high prices for their gas, I guess old car guys are going to be in the same “boat”.

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I am finally thinking EV would be good, mainly due to consistent $4.50 per gallon and likely rising. Investors are predicting crude oil will go back over $100 per barrel again.

Now WTI CRUDE •11 mins    78.10     +2.22 West Texas intermediate Crude oil, And Brent is $81.73/ barrel. Very strong crude oil prices and that will end up with gas going even higher.

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That spill is pathetic.

"The pipeline is inspected every other year and has been “meticulously maintained,” he said, adding that the most recent inspection occurred last week."

But obviously they missed something!

 

Birds and fish are turning up on shore dead, and the best beaches, Huntington Beach and Newport Beach are getting some oil deposits.

 

 

Disaster relief sought as major oil spill closes beaches, kills wildlife in  Huntington Beach – Press Enterprise

 

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I’ve said this before, but I for one don’t worry nor much pay attention to fuel prices, especially with my vintage cars.
It is what it is and if anything I wouldn’t mind if it was twice as high (or higher), because it would mean less traffic congestion when and where I wish to enjoy my cars.

And the day it becomes a concern means I’m in a wrong hobby.

 

Here’s some prices I encountered on 1000+ mile drive to/from Monterey Car Week in August and obviously just for schnits & giggles + bragging rights, I filled up my Roadster with Premium.

 

F9280CD7-1C4E-409D-BFB6-0F526F46A068.jpeg

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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