Useful documents for Dodge/Graham Brothers vehicles

[stakeside]

I have some Dodge/Graham documents that were scanned into the Dodge Brothers forum. I put them in jpg format and will share this useful information. There no titles on the document on the Dodge Club forum so you have to view individually and decide if it is helpful information.

If anybody finds any other useful documents please post on this site.

 

[stakeside]

Here are some Zenith carb documents.

 

 

 

 

[stakeside]

10 minutes ago, stakeside said:

Here are some additional Zenith carb documents.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, stakeside said:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by stakeside (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

Sherm, just in '28 there's about 100 pages already scanned. There's no way to devise an index that I know of. I think the program they use at the library is searchable by key words, maybe not for this batch. I would hope anyone with a particular year car would read all of the papers. There's tons of information in these, maybe even stuff you never thought about. As I said, I have about a 7 inch stack of more of these papers to scan from another source. 

[stakeside]

Thanks for your effort. Greatly appreciated.

On the coming cold winter days there’s plenty of time to run thru the scans.

Biggest problem is looking at documents more than once.

[Mark Gregush]

You might find out what program was used here; http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/1909/default.htm

The down loads are searchable by book/image or title and also page when that book is opened.

[30DodgePanel]

Great idea!

Indexing and organizing will be key.

I love the idea of having helpful docs in one location and think it's way overdue... 

[stakeside]

22 hours ago, stakeside said:

 

Sorry, Not sure how I missed pages 5 and 7. It would take some time to find them in the scan files.

22 hours ago, stakeside said:

 

 

 

 

[Mark Gregush]

Was trying to make suggestions as an end used, just keep doing it the way you are.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

OK, let's go to page number 3 above. DO I label it Care of Carb, Tuning, Ignition, Compression, Intake, or Zenith? That's just one page. I am no computer genius by a long shot. I try to put all 1928 information under one topic. If you have a 1928 DB I would think you would be interested in anything pertaining to 1928? If YOU want to list what pages have info on carbs, or ignition make a list and keep it close by so you don't have to go through it all. You obviously don't have any idea how many hours this has taken. Might change my mind on the 7 inches  of additional papers I have now. 

[Minibago]

Hmmm

 

I used to travel a lot for work before covid, one time my wife wanted to know where my passport was, in the filing cabinet I said, I cannot find it what is it filed under? Q of course, for Qantas.

[stakeside]

I have found than if I make a comment or request it may be that I should be part of the solution and step up and help. 
Scanning in is only the first step.

[nearchoclatetown]

All those Important Information papers are sitting in a box in Hershey. Think of what I am doing as putting that box in your living room. You can download it, relabel , delete or modify what you want. I have no idea of anyone's personal interest. I want to read it all, I may absorb some of it. There's information there about everything DB wanted their dealers to know and do. 

[30DodgePanel]

Computer is in for repairs so I’ll try responding by index finger…

 

Personally I think everything should be filed by date chronologically for easy referencing in the future. Doug has his hands full uploading it so maybe there should be a group who can use what he’s uploaded then index it and share it by email? That way we can constantly update it. We would have to be able to file share something that is edit enable friendly but has to have checks and balances for errors or mistakes. 
 

 

[30DodgePanel]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:19 PM, stakeside said:

 

This doc is a great example. I will explain in better terms later but for now, this should be indexed under “1930 truck” then labeled by its date “Sept 16th 1930 Zenith carb”. With that heading, anyone researching a truck of this era of carb will be able to go directly to it.

Edited September 19, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[trini]

That is great stuff, mate, I did not know Dodge Senior engine stands by itself.

[30DodgePanel]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:24 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

All those Important Information papers are sitting in a box in Hershey. Think of what I am doing as putting that box in your living room. You can download it, relabel , delete or modify what you want. I have no idea of anyone's personal interest. I want to read it all, I may absorb some of it. There's information there about everything DB wanted their dealers to know and do. 

 

Great points. 

Here's a glimpse of how I have it set up for each year using 1930 as an example. Everything is in my pictures, I have one file for each year then create folders within folders in order to find anything I need. In this situation I will go to all the available 1930 truck models that used a DA6 truck engine. Note the U models and DB models have their own folders under 1930 as well as buses. These are all the available 1930 models which used the DES frame serial #'s. *Any UF or F series trucks have a seperate folder as these started being produced after July 1 1930 making them 1931 models*

 

You'll notice step 3 has all the same bulletin within them. That's because the bulletin information pertained to all DA models so I sent a copy to each folder.

 

Step 1

Step 2

Step 3

If I want to go to a different  model or type , bus for instance, I go to that folder

 

Obiously still in the organizing stages but this seems to be the best method I've found to this point. I think it's a great way to share folders with others if needed. For now, because all the information is in too many places,  it seems like we all need to work on something like this in order to get a lot of the  information chronologically organized per each year and model then I think we'll see some real improvement in DB/GB truck research. 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Here's a photo (from one of the papers Doug uploaded to the DBC site) I've never come across before. I'm indexing this under one of my folders labeled Sales and Plant Info since it's not dated and includes all models. Notice the whitewalls on one of the trucks in the background.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

And for you Senior Six guys 

 

[30DodgePanel]

Here's one I'm filing under Exports. After these were shipped they were put together at what were referred to as "Assembly Plants" in historic NACC numbers.

 

 

 

 

Here are some fun facts about the 1930 Export info I've accumulated from my research over the years. The advertisment puts a face on the numbers for me. 

 

Export of “Truck Parts for Assembly” (including foreign assembly)

US 85,701. Canada 28,750. US & Canada combined 114,451 units

Foreign Assemblies 72,250 – 67 plants (counted for Foreign distribution across other regions)

Truck total 186,701 exports of trucks built in US, Canada AND Foreign assemblies combined in 1930

 

 

The research is all so time consuming but will all be worth it in a few years.

Edited September 25, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

And for our Aussie friends across the pond. 
Thanks again to DougW for all the time he took and is continuing to take in order for all of us in the Dodge and Graham Brothers community to enjoy such extraordinary documents and photos. 

 

[30DodgePanel]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:10 PM, stakeside said:

Here are some Zenith carb documents.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I have all of these original docs as well and wanted to make note why a project like this is so important so that viewers hopefully understand why we are posting these details.. 

 

Notice the dates on all these bulletins, and notice the second bulletin shows an updated correction to a previous bulletin showing the Venturi size for this carburetor should actually be a size 24 (not a 23). That's a very important factor to consider for anyone rebuilding one of these carbs for a restoration today because those Venturis were made of pot metal and when machining the part it's helpful to know so that the carb performs like originally intended.

 

The last bulletin shows when the change was made for semi automatic choke valve for Zenith carbs.

 

 

 

 

I've shared enough for now.

I'll let others post what they would like to share in hopes we can all learn from these important details.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Interesting find On DB Club site of invoice listings. http://www.dodgebrothersclub.org/pictures/Dealer_Invoices/Searchable PDFs/

Here is a 29 Graham Bros DE chassis with a DA engine. “H” code is DA 6. Guess they were just cleaning out their warehouse of parts. Only things to make it a GB truck rather than a DB truck would be the badging of radiator and  hub caps.

 

These are searchable PDF files that can be down loaded to Adobe PDF files.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by stakeside
E (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

That's brutal to a research guru since Jan 1929 was the date for the name change from Graham to Dodge. Still an incredible document to say the least and very early H code DA6 truck engine for sure.

 

I'd love to know the build date on that one as it would answer some very curious questions we have.

Funny how it says GB invoice but Dodge Brothers logo and letterhead. I would agree, one of the last ones with GB badging before the final changes took place.

 

So do we call this a DA120 or a DE? 
Or, I guess we could say just what it says, a DE frame with a DA120 6cyl engine just before they switched to DA frames officially and 2,426th frame post Victory Six engine based on these bulletin pages. I conclude the truck in the prior post is technically a DA120 model simply put.

See N0.7

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

David, did you notice how many of the trucks designate tire size and rear end gears? And many of the panel deliveries said polish side, or something to that effect. I am guessing they became laundry or bakery truck, etc. that will get lettered at final destination. 

[30DodgePanel]

19 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

David, did you notice how many of the trucks designate tire size and rear end gears? And many of the panel deliveries said polish side, or something to that effect. I am guessing they became laundry or bakery truck, etc. that will get lettered at final destination. 

I did, and would assume that was for lettering as well. I have originals from a Ross Roy sales booklet of blank forms that would have been meant for original owners to fill out for lettering purposes if anyone is curious I can post scans of it.

[30DodgePanel]

Keeping in mind the Secretaries of States considered anything after June 30th 1929 a new 1930 model. Here is the main reason I believe the U124, the DA 124 the U133 and DA133 were not a 1929 model (technically) even though in some publications they are referred to as 1929-1930 models.  Chrysler were petitioning that all models after Jan 1 be considered new models by calendar year (see the last scan) in  July 1932 but I've found no evidence that this was ever accepted as the rule or industry standard prior to 1932. If anyone has found documents proving otherwise, please post those documents. 

Notice production on the larger 133" trucks began before the smaller 3/4 ton 124" models. Not sure if there  is a reason for it but interesting none the less...

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Valve tappet info

 

 

[30DodgePanel]

Wheel info

 

 

[ArticiferTom]

Hello gentlemen , great work going on here . just a couple thoughts . No reason , i feel , that a copy of bulletin can not go under more then one file ie. D and E models . In would not add that much more volume to files .  Also a ways back you where talking about build cards listing (polished sides ) . I believe this may have meant interior wood . I saw a bulletin on hand rubbing two coats varnish if i recall correctly on the wood as extra . 

[nearchoclatetown]

Tom, that info may be on build cards, I don't know. What I was referring to was on actual sales receipts and order forms. The club was given a bunch from a dealer in Ohio that were scanned and are on the DBC website. Are you headed to Hershey next week? I haven't seen you in a while. 

[ArticiferTom]

Correction that is maybe where I saw it . Was part of DBC site info . Which is where I saw about finishing inside wood .

   Yes i plan to get there . Not sure when , but before weekend . Look forward to seeing you again .

[nearchoclatetown]

The DB club and several of the DBers will be in the orange and green field on the Giant Center side. DBC dinner is at 6:00 Friday night across the creek in the red brick Methodist church. I should not be hard to find if you ask anyone from the club. Doug

Edited September 29, 2021 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I wonder if Rick would be willing to have a post such as useful docs added to the DBC discussion forum as a sticky? Mods here said no. 

[nearchoclatetown]

I don't know. I think I would wait because like I said I have 7 inches more of stuff from '28 to '37? I think. Some of it could be truck. 

[30DodgePanel]

Note the phrase "This shipment makes a total of 203 (95032) Cars and Trucks shipped on this Season's Agreement".

 

I'm guessing the 203 is for truck units shipped and 95032 was combined totals for cars and trucks?

I wonder what made up a "season"? I.E. a day, week, month or quarter per the aggreement with The Pearl Motor Co?

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Thought this to be a great visual of how the two body styles were being produced along side each other. The larger trucks on the right had the pre 1930 Graham Brothers styling (paint scheme, belt molding, radiator shroud etc...) and the one on the left had the more updated styling. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Does the GB frame # J-21 mean anything to the Victory Six owners I wonder?

 

[30DodgePanel]

This one is intrguiging to see how the dealership communicated at years end for inventory prior to Dec 16th 1925 in regards to credits owed them by Dodge Brothers... 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

Did you see any with optional bumpers or spare tires? I only saw a few and the spare tires surprised me. They were only about $6 for the tire and tube. Lots of cars from '25 up specified disc wheels too.