36 Pontiac deluxe 6 few issues

[Silverstreak36]

Ok here are my puzzles of the week 

After many weeks of work, my car went for an hour long drive. Here are the issues I found. 

1) when stopping at an intersection , I have to stay in 3rd gear and depress clutch until engine idles lower and then quickly shift into first otherwise it's nothing but grind to get into first. My question could it be engine idling too high or clutch not disengaging enough or something else. 

 

2) when I finally arrived home, the coolant once again boiled over out of the rad cap even though gauge showed 180 degrees. Give or take. 

 

3) after adjusting brakes when applying brakes car pulls hard to the right. 

 

4) sending unit was bad so I got one plugged it in mind you with a 12v to 6 volt unit since I'm running 12v now but gauge was stuck on full. Ran a new ground wire to sending unit and now it goes up to empty when you turn key but never higher. Any thoughts? 

 

5) when reversing I here a rattling sound coming from shift stick could clutch chatter be part of my issue with gears if the previous owner was maybe grinding often ?

Thanks 

 

 

[Bloo]

1) "Touching" another gear before going to first is common. If it is so intent on spinning up by itself that you litterally have to leave it in third and then shift instantly, your clutch is dragging. Try this. With car idling as if at a stoplight, clutch pedal down (don't let clutch pedal back up for entire test!),  put in third. Pull back out of third. Count 5 seconds while in neutral (you still have NOT let the clutch pedal up!). Put in first. If it grinds, the clutch is dragging.

 

2) Coolant should only be full to the test petcock where the upper hose connects. The shop manual says you can put a little more in in the summer, about a quart, but I don't think it will hold a whole extra quart without pushing some out when you stop. Maybe a pint....

 

If you can see the coolant in there it is probably too full, unless the engine is really hot.

 

Mine runs at 190 or higher, always, according to the gauge. I'm not sure if it's normal. Maybe. The gauge is at the hottest spot at the back of the head. I changed my coolant recently, and started having trouble with the coolant pushing out. I had been using the old fashioned green antifreeze, known for foaming problems, but mine was pretty much working until this last change. If your water pump leaks excessively. it will aggravate foaming. Tighten the packing until it is only making a drop every few minutes. Lubricate your pump.

 

If it has the original oil cups, oil it.

 

If it has grease zerks, grease it. Use only water pump grease on the fitting out in the open by the packing nut. You can use it on the one under the hole in the pulley too if you want, but that is just the fan bearing, no water there, and regular grease could be OK on that. If you are using any sort of modern grease gun, be very careful about pressure. The gun used in the 30s would have probably been something you push on with your palm. A modern one easily develops enough pressure to break the cast iron.

 

If you have Pontiac's post-1938 retrofit (updated) pump with a seal instead of packing, you can ignore all that as long as it is not leaking.

 

IMHO if you are running the old pre-1994 green antifreeze it isn't going to work. I have had 2 different brands of it recently and both foamed up and pushed out, and then the engine boiled because there wasn't enough liquid coolant in the head. There is an ASTM test for coolant foaming. The numbers are conspicuously missing on the datasheets for many brands and types. Here is one I have been able to buy locally that has good anti-foam test numbers, and seems to work OK, but it might be too early to tell. I used concentrate and mixed 50-50 with distilled water.

 

 

3) Brake hoses collapse internally and cause that (mine did it). Stuck pistons in the brake cylinders also could. Also look for oil contamination on brake linings, and looseness in suspension components. All three hoses on my Master were the same as a NAPA hose for the back of a 1950 Chevrolet pickup. It should work on the back hose for sure, and if all three are alike, then all three. A Deluxe has different front suspension than my Master, so I am not sure if the front hoses on yours are the same.

 

4) Your sending unit originally was 0-30 ohms. The sending unit does not care about the voltage, but the gauge does. When GM went to 12v in 53-55, they kept the 0-30 ohm sending units and just changed the gauge. In 65 or so, they switched to 0-90 ohms and kept it until 1996 or so. All the gauges for those 0-90 ohm senders were 12 volt, but that was just because of the time they were made. Ford is different. Mopar is different. Stewart Warner aftermarket is different. VDO aftermarket is different, and so on. The sender has to match the gauge, and the gauge has to match the voltage. If you tell me how many ohms (empty-to-full) the sender you are using is, and exactly what gauge you are trying to use, I will try to guess what is wrong or what needs to be changed. Always use a ground wire to the tank or the case of the sender. Gauges are one thing most guys never get working right again after a 12 volt conversion. Good luck.

 

5) I doubt it is because of someone grinding gears. There are a bunch of parts where the stick meets the top of the transmission that wear out. Mine are completely shot, but my stick doesn't rattle, so I don't know. I wish I was there to listen to it. As for clutch chatter, the engine mounts adjust. The engine and trans basically sit on the front and the back mount, and the side mounts tighten to hold the engine down under torque. There's several types. If the front and back mount are bad enough, you can run out of adjustment at the sides. Within reason you might be able to add a washer to each stud. The shifter is not in the center of the transmission housing, so is slightly offset right normally, but enough misadjustment of the side mounts could tip the engine and trans enough that the stick isn't coming out of the floor where it should. I just had to correct that. Even normally though, the stick looks like it is further right in the floor hole than you would expect.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Silverstreak36]

Wonderful information I'll work on that tonight and report back my findings I have attached a link to the sending unit I bought 

 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/353080573054

 

How do I fix dragging clutch ?

[Silverstreak36]

Update gas gauge working now. Extra ground and reversing wires did it tomorrow will work on clutch fix and coolant check 

[Bloo]

The manual is very UN-clear on clutch adjustment. As I recall, the information is split into 2 different parts of the manual, and you needed to be looking at both for it to make any sense. I am looking at the manual right now, and I am not seeing that, and it isn't making any sense.

 

There is a diagram that shows there should be 5/8 between the pedal arm BEHIND the toe board, with the pedal all the way up, at rest, and at the same time 1 inch of free play. That's 1 inch measured at the top of the pedal from the at-rest position pushed until the throwout bearing contacts the clutch.

 

My guess is that a stop must set the 5/8", and the 1" would be set by the linkage adjuster. That is NOT what the manual says, it says the linkage adjuster sets the 5/8. There is a bunch of linkage, and maybe if they put the stop in some illogical place that would make sense. Maybe you have to be looking at it. I have adjusted mine successfully but I just can't remember.

 

There could be wear in your linkage. It wouldn't bother me to have a little less than 1" free play to get a little more motion. Be sure to grease the linkage while you are in there. There are 3 zerks for the clutch and the brake. Oil any pins or other moving points. You can take the piece of plywood over the battery out and it allows you to see the linkage better.

 

If you get it adjusted really right, and the clutch still drags, and it is not due to gobs of wear and slop in the linkage not making enough motion to disengage, then the clutch needs to come out, and probably be overhauled or replaced. That's a lot more work. There might be oil contamination. If there isn't, the pressure plate may be all out of whack, It has a bunch of springs and adjustments on it to make it symmetrical and leveled when installed. I hear they are a real PITA, and I have not done it on my Pontiac. As I recall, @chistech successfully fixed a similar one on a Chevrolet, and if you get to the point where you have it out of the car you might PM him and ask if he has any hints. Hopefully you won't have to take the clutch out.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bob Shafto]

Good advice all around. I had a similar brake problem, then discovered one brake drum was wider than the other. Both were originally 12" in diameter as I recall. I had one that was 12.5".

 

[Silverstreak36]

All issues fixed last one is brake pull to the right 

[Bob Shafto]

The brake might be pulling because one brake drum is worn excessively. That was the problem with my '36, eliminated when I replaced the drum. Check the inside diameter for wear.