Engine identification Help needed - Stutz? Cadillac?

[Quality]

I'm new to the club and need help. My father in law has what he believes are 3 Stutz V8 engines all with transmissions and pedals. One has electric start. Also have two rear axles and one front axle all have the spoked wheels. Can anyone point me in a direction of someone that can help identify the stuff ? He wants to sell them but we don't know a worth.  One even has a frame with it. Thank you for your help..I put a wrench on one and it spins. The other two I did not.

[keiser31]

8 minutes ago, Quality said:

I'm new to the club and need help. My father in law has what he believes are 3 Stutz V8 engines all with transmissions and pedals. One has electric start. Also have two rear axles and one front axle all have the spoked wheels. Can anyone point me in a direction of someone that can help identify the stuff ? He wants to sell them but we don't know a worth.  One even has a frame with it. Thank you for your help..I put a wrench on one and it spins. The other two I did not.

We need photos to determine what you have and what they are worth.

[Quality]

[Quality]

[Quality]

[Quality]

[Quality]

[Quality]

[alsancle]

Somebody smarter than me will tell you which make,  but I believe Cadillac or Lasalle.   Not Stutz as a V8 would be very rare.  So rare that they were never made.

[West Peterson]

It appears to have twin ignition, or I'm perhaps miss-reading the photos. A distributor on each end of the engine???

[West Peterson]

It does look a LOT like the Cadillac V-8 from the teens, but the twin distributors are confusing.

 

[Skvitt]

Is it me, or those engines are actually V16?

[West Peterson]

5 minutes ago, Skvitt said:

Is it me, or those engines are actually V16?

 

No. What you're seeing are eight spark plugs, and eight primer cups, although on one of the engines, it looks as though they've stuck spark plugs into the primer cup slot. ?????

[Skvitt]

9 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

 

No. What you're seeing are eight spark plugs, and eight primer cups, although on one of the engines, it looks as though they've stuck spark plugs into the primer cup slot. ?????

Perhaps 2 spark plugs per cylinder?

[Quality]

[keiser31]

Do the hubcaps have a name on them?

[Quality]

1 hour ago, West Peterson said:

It appears to have twin ignition, or I'm perhaps miss-reading the photos. A distributor on each end of the engine???

Yes two distributors is correct. We aren't sure what engine manufacturer it is. Hoping to learn what he has. Thanks

[Quality]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Somebody smarter than me will tell you which make,  but I believe Cadillac or Lasalle.   Not Stutz as a V8 would be very rare.  So rare that they were never made.

We are hoping to learn what manufacturer it is. Someone hopefully recognizes it.

[Quality]

I found some pictures that suggest that it maybe peerless can anyone confirm ?

[Quality]

52 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

 

No. What you're seeing are eight spark plugs, and eight primer cups, although on one of the engines, it looks as though they've stuck spark plugs into the primer cup slot. ?????

Maybe Peerless ?

[dictator27]

They look like they could possibly be Peerless.  Modified for use in a fire truck?

[1937hd45]

Google search turned up this 1917 Model 56 Peerless engine. Bob 

Edited August 26, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Quality]

10 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Google search turned up this 1917 Model 56 Peerless engine. Bob 

Definitely looks like that is the engine manufacturer.  Now who to know if worth anything?

[JayG]

Looks like Peerless.  See the attached engine photos.

[lump]

Wow, fantastic stuff! Can't wait to learn more. 

 

But like West Petersen, I'm baffled by the twin distributors! 

 

[Quality]

2 hours ago, lump said:

Wow, fantastic stuff! Can't wait to learn more. 

 

But like West Petersen, I'm baffled by the twin distributors! 

 

Me too I hope someone knows. 

[West Peterson]

3 hours ago, lump said:

Wow, fantastic stuff! Can't wait to learn more. 

 

But like West Petersen, I'm baffled by the twin distributors! 

 

 

I think, based on the primer cups being replaced with spark plugs, the dual distributors is some sort of major modification. Is there a racing history in your father's past???

[Craig Gillingham]

That's a Herschell-Spillman V8, used in other cars as well, Daniels for example.

[Akstraw]

Good call.  There are some other rather old discussion threads on this forum about Herschel Spillman engines.  Interesting reading.  Apparently not too many still extant.

[lump]

Found a thread here on AACA forums, as Akstraw mentions above. Here is a link: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/146820-hirshell-spillman-engines/

 

[wayne sheldon]

How many of the engines do have dual distributors? One, two? All three? Any data plates on them? The same? Different?

I know of Herschell-Spillman engines, but I don't know a lot about them. Their name shows up through several years of automotive history, and they built engines for quite  number of cars. How many were V8s? I wouldn't even guess.

A quick google search says they were manufactured from 1905 through 1924, and provided engines for about 85 different makes of cars. Don't know how accurate that is.

[jeff_a]

The coolant return pipes on top are exactly like those on a Peerless "V-Type Eight" engine, built from 1916 to 1928. Of course, the Herschell-Spillman engine was nearly identical to the 1916 Peerless V-8. By late 1916, Peerless had improved it with a different firing order, making it the 2nd series of about 10 variations in use until 1928(Series 1-7, Mod. 66, Model 8-67, Model 8-69). I know a gentleman in NY, Evan Price, with a 1915 Ross automobile with H-S motor #30. The Daniels used it, as well as Rock Falls, Monarch, Murray, Standard, Douglas, Drummond, Apperson, and Abbott* automobiles, plus 2 tractors(Common Sense and Sandusky brands) and an airplane. These were 332 Cu. In. and 70 or 80 h.p.

* sources: Richard Lichtfeld, Butlers Standard Eight on the AACA Forums, and a 2010 post in JalopyJournal

Edited August 31, 2021 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Craig Gillingham]

I must say these are fascinating parts. The engine in the chassis with single ignition is a good match with a Peerless engine. Another photo showing the chassis, and particularly the wheel, so that the wheel manufacturer could be identified, may help as well. I haven't seen or read about a twin-spark H-S V8 before, so this is all very interesting. If it's a factory fitted option, then it's something particularly rare.

[alsancle]

I'm pretty sure I have a buddy with a Peerless V8 that has twin plugs.  I'm going to ask him today.

[Brianbo]

Fire truck?

[Quality]

11 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

How many of the engines do have dual distributors? One, two? All three? Any data plates on them? The same? Different?

I know of Herschell-Spillman engines, but I don't know a lot about them. Their name shows up through several years of automotive history, and they built engines for quite  number of cars. How many were V8s? I wouldn't even guess.

A quick google search says they were manufactured from 1905 through 1924, and provided engines for about 85 different makes of cars. Don't know how accurate that is.

Where are data info located on the peerless?

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

I'm pretty sure I have a buddy with a Peerless V8 that has twin plugs.  I'm going to ask him today.

I was wrong. His peerless has single plugs.

[jeff_a]

• Quality, Go to the Peerless Forum instead of the General Interest Forum here on the AACA Forums. This is a book-length series of posts about Peerless.
• There were dual ignition Peerless engines, but they were enormous T-head sixes and prior to 1913.
• The early Peeerless V-8 cars all had air compressors at the front of the engine. In the post yesterday by 1937hd45 showing the engine in a green 1917 Peerless, the compressor is clearly visible near the fan, the unit with 5 cooling rings.
• After 1906, there really wasn't much race car activity on the part of Peerless, though there was a famous Atwater-Kent Ignition Peerless 8: "Atwater-Kent equipped Peerless Wins Race at Uniontown. Fetterman's Peerless, equipped with Atwater-Kent Ignition, won the 112-mile dealers' race at Uniontown Speedway May 10th, 1917." From The Automobile, May 31, 1917, p. 63

 

 

I don't know where Uniontown Speedway was. The picture looks like quite a bit different from a Peerless Coupe or Roadster, but interestingly enough, there was a Sporting Roadster available from the factory which was similar, and for only $155 more than a Roadster and must have been a real performer, illustrated below at an auto show.

Edited August 28, 2021 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Peerless engines from a Peerless fire truck?   Fire trucks often had dual ignition for reliability.

[jeff_a]

Richard Lichtfeld said the first 3 series had a water-jacketed brass intake manifold, followed by an exhaust-heated aluminum one in the Series 4 for 1919. If these are Peerless engines -- rather than one of the other 10 makes of cars that used them -- this may help identify the year.

 

There was a forum member 4 or 5 years ago restoring a Standard with a H-S engine.

Here's a pic of a circa-1917 H-S engine from a Daniels that was for sale on PreWarCar.com some time ago:

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by jeff_a (see edit history)