1962 LeSabre 4 Door

[drhach]

Hey everybody, I just thought I'd share some of what's going on with my car. It has about 136,000 miles on it; maybe more. The speedometer stopped working for some time. It had a noisy lifter and I was just getting more and more worried about how much life it had left in it. I was worried about the nylon timing gears. Also, the bushing in the tail shaft of the Dynaflow had tons of slop and I was getting quite a vibration from the driveshaft. All of this led me to the decision to jump in to an engine rebuild. While I was at it, I decided to swap in an ST400. I'm not great at documenting this stuff, but I'll share what I have. 

 

Here's the car in question

 

 

My Son helped me pull the engine and transmission last November. If I had known how long it was going to take the machine shop to get it done, I would have pulled it sooner. Also, I don't have a heated garage, so I figured I wouldn't get much done if I got the engine back in February. It turns out, I had nothing to worry about there. 

 

 

 

Upon disassembly, I discovered that the nylon from the timing gears was completely gone. There were huge chunks of it in the oil pan. The timing chain was wearing the cam gear down and as far as I can tell, the engine was a ticking time bomb.  Amazingly, everything else looked quite good. I inherited the car from my brother and I know he liked to abuse it. I expected much worse. This was a factory low compression model (9:1), add to that, at some point the head gasket had been changed for a newer blue composite type gasket. I'd bet this was lucky if it was 8:1. There was no scoring on the cylinder walls to speak of and the cam looked appropriately worn, but certainly not worn out. In hindsight, I probably could have replaced the cam train and gotten more life out of it. These engines are clearly way overbuilt. 

 

I sent the parts off to the machine shop and started the tedious engine bay clean up process. Winter set in soon after this and I moved as much of my operation indoors as I could.   

 

Earlier in the year, I sourced an ST400 from a 1965 Riviera. I went through that completely, upgrading where I could. I also found a rebuilt torque converter from an ST300. So I should get some nice stall speeds. 

 

Winter ended, Spring came and went. The machine shop was pretty clear from the beginning that they were quite busy. I asked in the beginning if May was reasonable. I got a definite "maybe". I could have chosen another machine shop, but these guys were pretty highly recommended and they also made their knowledge of Nailheads pretty clear. I figured I'd wait. May came and went. June came and went. July and final mid August, I got my engine back. They did a great job. It was worth the wait. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by drhach (see edit history)

[drhach]

I can't attribute all of this to my machine shop. There also was a 6 week lead time for the pistons that I ordered. So, around May, my pistons came. The Machine shop started trying to get me back in to their schedule. At one point, they had the block cleaned and a preliminary bore for the new pistons. I actually had to borrow my block so that I could make a crossmember from the new transmission. 

 

 

 

 

Finally, at the beginning of August, they got it all done. I brought it all home and started the assembly process. I started with paint. I know some people save this for the end. But there are lots of nooks and crannies. I wanted to make sure I got good coverage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next came assembly

Crank. pistons and cam. 

 

 

I checked all of my clearances and all was good. After that came heads, valve train and pretty much all of the external stuff. 

 

 

 

I got my harmonic balancer torqued up last night. My new driveshaft should be ready Thursday. The plan is to wrap up a few last things and get then engine/transmission/driveshaft installed this weekend. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by drhach (see edit history)

[GARY F]

Nice work.

[JohnD1956]

What is the rear axle ratio from the car that donated the trans, vs your original rear axle?  

[drhach]

10 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

What is the rear axle ratio from the car that donated the trans, vs your original rear axle?  

I was told the trans came from a 1965 GS RIviera, which would have been 3.42:1. Mine is 3.23:1. I had to swap out the driven gear for the speedometer.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Did you go with special pistons or just a normal .30 or so over ?  I was wondering why it took so long to get pistons.

Did they machine shop balance the engine with the harmonic balancer on it ?

 

Looks pretty.

[EmTee]

Are you running the original switch-pitch torque converter with the ST-400, or are you converting it to a fixed-pitch converter?  If running the switch-pitch, hopefully you were able to collect the accelerator pedal and throttle linkage switches and harness from the donor car.

[drhach]

I special ordered forged pistons through Tom Telesco. They're about 0.030 over, but I wanted to specify my squish band and compression ratio. He needed some info regarding deck height and combustion chamber volume. So, I had to wait a bit for that and then it was about 6 weeks to get them made and delivered. I debated about using off the shelf pistons. In order to get what I wanted, I would have had to have the block decked. Thinking down the road, I decided I'd rather still have the material intact and work on custom pistons. 

 

Regarding the transmission, I'm using a switch pitch converter. I was able to get a correct kick-down switch; or at least one that will work. I'm using a 66' Quadrajet manifold, but not a 66' carb. So, I had to make an adapter to fit the switch to the throttle lever. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by drhach (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

By observation, one of our chapter members had Phoenix Trans do the THM400 conversion on his '62 LeSabre.  Getting that extra gear and better torque converter made the car act so much better that his teenaged son wanted to drive it . . . a 4dr sedan LeSabre.  That didn't happen.  A good conversion using factory parts is always better than putting together a bunch of aftermarket items instead.  Hope everything keeps progressing nicely!

 

NTX5467

[drhach]

I'm  hoping that my son will take an interest in classic cars. If he does, he wont have any money for drugs :).

[JohnD1956]

  This ought to make for a major sleeper and fun car. I am anticipating a drive report.

[drhach]

Minor setback yesterday. I dropped my driveshaft off at the machine shop to have it shortened and rebuilt. The CV joint needs to be replaced and it is not a common item. I found a repair kit at classicbuicks.com. But they're in Oregon and I'm in Northern Illinois. So, it probably won't arrive until next week. Nonetheless, I still plan on getting the engine and transmission installed this weekend. I just won't be bale to start the engine. 

[EmTee]

21 hours ago, drhach said:

I was able to get a correct kick-down switch; or at least one that will work.

 

That's good, but there's also a microswitch attached to the accelerator pedal on my '67 Riviera that engages the high-stall mode when there's no pressure on the pedal (i.e., when stopped at an intersection).

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by EmTee (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Subscribed, interested in the outcome.

[drhach]

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I'm still on deck to install the engine and transmission tomorrow. I'm hoping to make some good progress this weekend, although I still will need the driveshaft in order to get it started. I'll get it as far as I can. 

 

So, here's the old cam gear. Pretty far gone. 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, a question if anybody knows. Should there be a rubber grommet or something between these two disks on the dipstick? The dipstick didn't leak as far as I could tell. But it always just seemed like a pretty loose fit.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by drhach (see edit history)

[wmsue]

Looks Great.

Can't wait to see the rest.

 

Don't make the mistake I made once.....

The flywheel is used to externally balance the 401 engine and has only ONE correct orientation.

I had a slight roughness to the idle in my car and it turned out that I flywheel off a bit.

After reinstalling correctly, it idles and ran great.

 

Good Luck

Bill

 

[NTX5467]

No seals on the dipstick.  Not in an area that gets a lot of oil, up there.  Besides, the pcv system "inhales", which should keep oil well below the top of the indicator.  The lower washer is there to keep the cap from falling of the bottom end of the indicator, usually.

 

Enjoy!

CBODY67

[avgwarhawk]

Wow. The gear has seen better days.  Yes, no rubber gasket is required on the dip stick. 

[drhach]

The saga continues. I got the engine and transmission installed over the weekend. I started hooking things up. I've had to make a list so I can keep track of it all. Lot's of little things that are easy to forget. I have some wiring to do for the gauges and the Switch Pitch controller. Also, I'm still waiting for my driveshaft. I had to buy a CV repair kit. The guy I bought it from is on the West coast. He assured me he would ship it last Thursday. I called him Monday and he hadn't shipped it yet. I asked for some assurance that he would ship it Tuesday (he said he only ships Thursdays and Tuesdays) and he started getting annoyed with me and said I was "harassing" him. Then he threatened to cancel my order. So, I guess we'll see. If the CV joint arrives this week, it won't be here in time for me to have the driveshaft done this weekend. 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by drhach (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Seig Wrowbel, west coast, I bought two 1935 Nash hubcaps from him back around 1985. I reminded my wife each anniversary of his cashing my check for the rest of the century. She's out in the kitchen. I'll whisper his name as I pass her on the way to the garage.

 

Good luck.

[60FlatTop]

My wife laughed when I mentioned old Seig.

 

On the CV or Cardan joint. I know there are kits to rebuild them and people have claimed to repair them. My experience has not been good. In the manual it states the the driveshaft is not a serviceable unit and should be replaced as a whole. I agree, but you can't just buy one anymore.

On my '64 Riviera I have replaced all five universal joints and not touched the CV. If your CV joint has one  or both of the U-joints showing wear it might be a good idea to change just the joints and try it before working with the ball and its parts.

I had a '67 Cadillac driveshaft that made four trips back to a very qualified shop and they never got it right. That was in the 1990's and I was able to find a good used one. That did the job. The repaired one leaned against the wall of my garage as a reminder for over 20 years before I threw it out with scrap.

Just sharing experience and recommending try try new u-joints before doing any surgery on that ball. I am sure you will hear different. Get their shipping address and their guaranty. That's who you want to do it.

 

 

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

On my '64 Riviera I have replaced all five universal joints and not touched the CV. If your CV joint has one  or both of the U-joints showing wear it might be a good idea to change just the joints and try it before working with the ball and its parts.

 

FWIW, I changed a sloppy U-Joint in the CV on my '67 Riviera (along with a couple of others that were shot).  That was 2 years ago; so far, so good...

[60FlatTop]

Actually I changed those five u-joints right before I left for the Buick Nationals in Sandusky, Ohio.

[EmTee]

Ha - I did mine right before a trip to Gettysburg for the 2019 ROA meet!  I guess jobs like that require additional 'incentive'... 

[drhach]

Thanks for the input. I've seen that disclaimer in the manual too. I've actually considered trying to rework the driveshaft so it will take an Impala CV joint. The mounting screws for the center section are oriented 90 degrees off. I don't know, we'll see. I'm having the whole shaft rebuilt and balanced. I have to have it shortened anyway, I also had to use a different trans yoke with the th400 swap. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the kit works. According to my tracking number, it's out for delivery to the shop today. So fingers crossed, I may get it back this weekend. 

[old-tank]

Some original GM u-joints were glued/nylon injected.  Do not use a press without melting the bond, even then a BFH works better.  A press will bend the yoke and even a little bit will cause vibration that will drive you crazy, until the whole unit is replaced.

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, drhach said:

I have to have it shortened anyway,

Shortening is sure better than lengthening. Maybe you could consider making up a two piece driveshaft with a carrier bearing, and a single center joint like the '58 to '60 Chevy.

I put a 350 Buick 2 speed 300 turbine transmission, needed an extra foot of driveshaft to get to that short tailshaft. I put in a 3/4 ton Ford truck driveshaft with the front section shortened. U-joint was the same so the snout fit. I made a center support bearing mount. That worked out fine. Shortened and welded the shaft in a home lathe. When I unchucked it the size seemed very familiar. Then I realized it was the same length and diameter as a 3" shell from a Navy Destroyer gun mount, offloaded a few hundred of those one day.

 

That truck is still out there somewhere. Not a bad option.

[NTX5467]

Many OEM u-joints were glued in, but the replacement u-joints came grooves on the inner section of the cap, to use lock rings rather than the hardened nylon glue.

 

I believe that most GM full-size cars prior to the 1965 re-design used two-piece drive shafts, as '72 and prior pickup trucks did too.  As Ford and Chrysler used one-piece shafts instead.

[drhach]

The work continues. I finished all of my wiring. Pretty much all done and waiting for the driveline. Otherwise she's ready to go. I primed the oil pump just to validate the oil pressure gauge is working. I may hit the temp gauge with a heat gun just to test that. Hopefully I get the driveline this week. 

 

The bad news is that my wipers dont work. So, I'll have to work on that. If that's my biggest problem, I'll be very happy.

 

 

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

What type of carburetor is that?

[drhach]

Quadrajet. If I remember correctly, it's from a 78 Oldsmobile. I have 66' manifold on the engine.

[drhach]

Well, I picked up my driveshaft yesterday. We've had some other family issues going on, otherwise, I would have put it in yesterday as well. It looks like tomorrow's the day. Once I get the driveline installed, I can fill the transmission, prime the oil pump, set the distributor and with a little luck, It'll be off and running. 

 

I know there has been some discussion about how rebuildable these CV joints are (or aren't). I was really impressed with the shop I used. They seemed very familiar with these units and talked pretty extensively about how they've dealt with this in the past. So I have high hopes. 

 

 

[JohnD1956]

4 hours ago, drhach said:

Well, I picked up my driveshaft yesterday. We've had some other family issues going on, otherwise, I would have put it in yesterday as well. It looks like tomorrow's the day. Once I get the driveline installed, I can fill the transmission, prime the oil pump, set the distributor and with a little luck, It'll be off and running. 

 

I know there has been some discussion about how rebuildable these CV joints are (or aren't). I was really impressed with the shop I used. They seemed very familiar with these units and talked pretty extensively about how they've dealt with this in the past. So I have high hopes. 

 

 

They must be good. They weren't scared to put their name on it. 

[avgwarhawk]

Hope the family issue is resolved and all is good. Please post a video of first start.  Use gear heads love seeing a engine come to life. 

[drhach]

It lives!!!! Sorry, no videos. I'm not the greatest at documenting this stuff. But after a few hiccups, she snorted to life. I still have to fuss with the timing, it pings under load. Also, it seems like the torque converter is stuck in high stall. I tested the solenoid on the bench and in the car. So I know it works, I'm wondering if I did something wrong when hooking up the controller. 

 

[avgwarhawk]

Video or it never happened. 😃

[drhach]

Well, the engine runs like a top. Now the transmission is another story. I thought it as stuck in high stall. I wasn't really sure what to expect from the switch pitch. But this isn't right. I have to rev it really high just to get under way. This is the case for all gears. I had a talk with the guy who rebuilt the transmission (me) and he's going to dig in to it. I'm hoping it's something stupid. I'm going to pressure test the transmission in the the next day or two, That tell me a little more about where to look next. It's also leaking from the torque converter cover. So, I have y suspicions that the TC is garbage. But I'll have to pressure test to be sure.

[avgwarhawk]

Leaking torque converter is no good.  Leaking badly?    

[drhach]

Sorry, no videos, but I guarantee that it happened :). It's a few drops, but I think that's a few drops too many given that it's a rebuild. I'm going to pressure test the transmission and see what I come up with.  

[JanZverina]

I had a sizeable leak on my Dynaflow (63 Riv), especially after the car sat for more than a week. Turned out to be some loose bolts on the converter just under the flyweel housing, and a small gasket on one of the two accumulator valves. Nothing serious. Oh, and you may want to avoid synthetic ATF, which is thinner and can leak past some gaskets. Dex 3 is good, according to a recommended tech here in San Diego who knows his Dynaflows.