James Holland Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I have recently acquired a 1926 Chrysler Imperial 80 - possibly the only one in the UK. I am in desperate need of help with the braking system and would like to speak to someone who knows how to get it to work. I have had the master cylinder rebuilt and some new lines made up but I cannot get any pedal pressure. I am also unable to remove any of the wheels and would like to obtain the correct puller to draw the wheel off. Any help will be greatly appreciated. James Holland 0044 7980 982367 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 James ,to start with you should have a reservoir tank on the fire wall with a T handle..That is screwed in to close off the tank and opened for gravity bleeding only to charge the system . The system basically is a gravity bleed /prime/load the system. Pedal pumping does nothing as there is no spring in the master cylinder and once you push the pedal down..the pedal will return up but the master cylinder piston does not! ,that is untill the system is full and the brake band return springs push the wheel cylinder pistons back in and all the fluid back against the piston in the master cylinder. The reservior had a very crude plunger that is used to weakly encourage pushing fuild through the system.and pushing the master cylinder piston back to it's start postion..done usually at the end of simple gravity bleeding... Once you get a grip on this thought..it all becomes easier.. I will copy some info I have and post it or send it to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 The following for Chrysler 70 and others using early Lockheed external contracting hydraulic brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I hope this helps.. Note: as mentioned the plunger valve in the reservoir is CRUDE. It realy is just used as slight pusher(without a oneway valve) and as much as you push in or down ,it can some what pull fluid up back into the tank or pull air in from an open bleeder valve who's bleeder hose is no resting in a jar of fluid. Push it down as swift as you care but pull it up slowly..is my tip. I have had success just opening the reservoir tank valve and then one bleeder screw at a time and slowly push air out and let the fluid find it's way out of the bleeder screw (with no bubbles at all) and drain at least a half cup out into a jar .And do not reuse the bleed off fluid as these above instructions say...it is flushing garbage out..and is contaminated once it leaves the system. Don't be surprised if brown gook and green(from the copper) fluid comes out...keep bleeding till all fluid looks absolutely new.. Best wishes and good luck.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Thank you very much for your replies and information. I have been trying to bleed the system correctly, However, I suspect the wheel cylinders are seized which is where my next problem lies - I can't get a wheel off! I have seen reference to a special puller which presumably isn't commercially available so guess I will need to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I would advertise in the Chrysler section looking for a puller. If you go to Hershey you will see many but you have to know your thread size. The last one I bought for a 1928 Plymouth was 20 years ago and I gave $40. You can also find them on E-bay. This is where being a club member helps. You meet other owners with the same year cars and exchange tool's and information. Well worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomara Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Yes, regarding the rear drum puller, spent much time and wasted some money on this. The diameter of the threads and pitch is critical, use a digital caliper for the diameter and a thread gauge for the pitch. Don't rely on much that you read because sometimes the information is not correct. I looked for a hub puller based on what appeared to be valid information and it turned out to be the wrong size. If you search the posts you will find a source for new hub pullers made by a craftsman here in the states. Good Luck and remember the size is the most important part of this endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Here is a list of some hub puller specs. noted by a collector for various vintage cars. Anomalies can sometimes happen,but not that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 If I understand correctly the hub puller for that type wheel goes on in place of the hub cap. A good machinist should be able to make something up copying the threads on a hub cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 Thank you for all your replies. As I'm in the UK I'm unlikely to pick one up so my local machinist is making one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomara Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Hi again, that input above saying that a Chrysler 6 Model 72 takes 2 3/8 X 16 TPI was incorrect in my case, I needed a 2 1/2 X 16 TPI for my 1928 roadster. Remember the digital caliper...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 My chrysler 70 (G70) of 1927 is the 2-3/8" x 16 TPI.... Thats early Chrysler for you. My car also takes 2 different size thread on hubcaps front and rear! Idiotic...I probably have left over from the 1926 B70 hubs ,either front or rear...on the "Motor Wheel Corp" wheels ..or new design introduction . I will post pictures of the hub puller that was made for me and point out the design features for a machinist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomara Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Hi Flivverking, my 1928 Chrysler Model 72 also has two different size hubs for front and rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) I've just checked and mine is the same, unfortunately. My machinist has already made up the puller for the rear and will be dropping it off this morning. Two further questions: First. Presumably Chrysler later changed to a conventional master cylinder incorporating a one-way valve - what year would that have been? Second. I am deeply suspicious of the fact that the whole system depends on the plunger being a good fit so air and fluid can't be drawn in past it in either direction. How can I ensure that? Edited August 20, 2021 by James Holland (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv w Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 You should not need a puller to take the front drum and hub off. A word of caution, when stripping your wheel cylinders, do NOT try and knock the pistons thru from one side to the other. Look at fig 26 above, there is a piston cup stop block anchored in the centre of the cylinder, it has 3 pins that locate into a groove in the centre of the cylinder and trying to press or hammer the piston thru will destroy your wheel cylinders. viv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I once owned a 1928 Chrysler 72 with the same brake system as yours. Master cylinder cups can no longer be found. These have a brass button on the back of them that hooks into the piston to hold it. Zeke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 If you have the wheel cylinder off and they have recently had fluid in them, try using air pressure to blow them apart. If they have been dry for a while soak them in a container in fluid such as diesel fuel for a few days. I would think you could update using a early mopar master cylinder. (1928-30) I have several and they are not hard to find. Think Hershey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) No puller is required for the front wheels. The rear wheels can be a very different story. Getting them off may require a lot of patience. I hope your puller is a good tight fit on the threads because it is possible there will be a lot of tension on them. Another way to remove the wheel cylinder pistons is to screw a grease fitting into the fluid inlet and pump them full of grease with a manual grease gun. Edited August 20, 2021 by dictator27 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just a thought, My Ex-Mother-In Law could have stared the rear hub off. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 The puller I had made is a success and the first of the rear wheels has been drawn off. I wish I had known in time that I wouldn’t need a puller for the front wheels. Never mind, the car is now equipped with one. Thanks for the words of warning about dismantling the wheel cylinders. I hope to investigate the n/s rear on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Hello Jim, Glad to hear the first drum came off. Remember to adjust the shoes in if possible. sometimes the drums and linings become grooved and lock together keeping the drum from moving outward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 Rear wheels successfully removed without problem. However, the brake linings are totally worn out and the wheel cylinders completely seized. I shall be taking the cylinders off to a specialist repairer tomorrow morning and the linings will be sent away to be renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 If you are going to have your drums turned you have to take it to the right shop. Most modern brake shops don't have a machine with the right size arbor to put the drum on. If you don't know where to go ask your car friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Holland Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 I'm not going to have the drums skimmed as there's not a lot of metal there. I shall give them a good clean with some emery and see how we get on. Another question - how is the band contraction mechanism attached to the wheel cylinders? Are they pins which simply drive out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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