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62 Skylark Brake Master Cylinder


Ohjai
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I purchased brake parts from Kanter, Carid, and Inline Tube.  So far, the Kanter master cylinder does not work, the front drums from Carid have five hole mounting instead of 4 hole, and the Inline Tube is fantastic.  I suppose this means I am batting .333% on brake parts.

 

The Kanter master cylinder has a tag attached that instructs you to NOT press the brake pedal to the floor when bleeding the brakes.  If you do, something moves too far and gives an indication the master cylinder has failed.  Does this mean, if I loose  brake pressure for any reason, with the pedal going to the floor board, in addition to repairing the failed item, I also have to repair the Master cylinder.

 

This appears to me to be a very unsafe way to repair your brakes.  What are your thoughts?

 

Jim

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I am sorry for your troubles.  But can you post a picture of the tag and the master cylinder?  I vaguely recall discussion on this year small Buick having a unique master cylinder. But I am curious as to why doesnt the Kanter  master cylinder work?

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I installed the Kanter Master Cylinder, filled it up with brake fluid and no fluid comes out of the master cylinder.  I was careful not to push the piston in very far.  
 

Not only does it not work, but it concerns me as to the reliability of the part and subsequently on the supplier.

 

Jim115676702_KanterMasterCylinderTag.jpg.b9ce356e3c4ccb24d13127c24b9edf44.jpg

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You should bench bleed the master cylinder first before installing it on the car. They want you to use short strokes when you bench bleed it instead of pushing the piston all the way in. That tag gives general instructions for ALL master cylinders they sell and are not specific to 1962 Buick models.. 

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Okay, I did not bench bleed the master cylinder, I installed it, put fluid in it, then attempted to bleed the system.  Nothing comes out when I stroke the piston,  I am only moving the piston a short distance by hand, not going to the floor.  Do I have to remove it to bench bleed it?

 

2124796812_NewMasterCylinder.jpg.3820feecf3b533373a2ebc18c778485e.jpg

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Yes you have to remove it from the car to bench bleed it. That way you get all the air out of the master cylinder before installation and you know the master cylinder piston is only pushing brake fluid out instead of air. 

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I just removed the line and brake switch on the master cylinder, tried to pump the pedal, no fluid comes out of either port.  It may be possible the pump was actuated during shipping, because I read the tag and DID NOT push the plunger in more than a couple of inches, and was cautious when I attached it pump to the brake pedal.

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2 hours ago, Ohjai said:

Okay, I did not bench bleed the master cylinder, I installed it, put fluid in it, then attempted to bleed the system.  Nothing comes out when I stroke the piston,  I am only moving the piston a short distance by hand, not going to the floor.  Do I have to remove it to bench bleed it?

 

2124796812_NewMasterCylinder.jpg.3820feecf3b533373a2ebc18c778485e.jpg

I would try to loosen the brake line at the junction block, fill the MC and then wait a few minutes to see if the fluid gravity feeds to that point.  If it does then assuming you have put in new brake lines to each wheel,  I would then tighten the first line at the block and then open each wheel cylinder port starting with the drivers side front, to see if the system will gravity feed itself to each wheel eventually.  This usually does not take that long but the new brake lines will take a bit of time to fill up.  As long as the MC is above the openings of the wheel cylinders, gravity bleeding is the initial step and I have done this several times on various vehicles.  You still have to follow up with the pedal power bleed at the end just to be sure all fittings are tight.

 

As for the possibility of bottoming out the MC and feeling like it is wrong, you may find that once the strut from the brake pedal is attached to the MC, the MC piston does not reach the bottom of its bore with the brake pedal.  It is on bench bleeding that it's possible to reach the bottom of the bore but the strut from the brake pedal is likely shorter so you don't get that situation on the car.  

 

As for bench bleeding I have found that is needed when the MC's are mounted on an angle, and the front is much higher than the back.  On the bench those MC's can be held horizontal and bleeding of the MC  is more complete.  But that usually refers to late 70's- 80's cars, and is pretty much limited to the dual master cylinders, AND, once bench bled and installed they will sometimess still gravity feed the system with an open wheel cylinder port.  I believe yours should self bleed by gravity feed.

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Thanks John.  It has been filled since Saturday, with the lines open.  I removed the lines this morning and nothing after 3 hours.  I think I have a dud MC.  Am heading out to a parts store to get a hone, I have a rebuild kit, and I am going to rebuild the old one.  Will let everyone know how it turns out.

 

Jim

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If the fluid does not flow from the reservoir to the out let, I'm not sure anything will work.  I am ready to return to to Kanter.  I just do not trust Chinese parts, especially assembled parts.

 

Jim 

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Is it possible the brake pedal/rod is not allowing the piston in the master cylinder to fully retract? If the piston doesn't fully retract fluid can't flow from the reservoir into the cylinder or out into the lines.

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On that simple MC you might be able to remove the fluid and look at a hole in the bottom of the reservoir to see if the piston is always blocking the hole and preventing fluid from entering the cylinder. Just depends on how it is made.

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Nope, did not work.  Ronnie, this is a new part I just received from Kanter, I am hesitant to start taking it apart, it just does not want to work for me.  My trust in the reliability of parts from the orient is not that great, so now, if I were to be able to kludge it together, I don't know if I want to trust my life on that part.

 

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3 hours ago, Ohjai said:

Thanks John.  It has been filled since Saturday, with the lines open.  I removed the lines this morning and nothing after 3 hours.  I think I have a dud MC.  Am heading out to a parts store to get a hone, I have a rebuild kit, and I am going to rebuild the old one.  Will let everyone know how it turns out.

 

Jim

I concur. Something not right.  Send it back.

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I had the same issue with a Kanter bought master cylinder for my 1962 Skylark convertible.  Two friends were installing new wheel cylinders (also bought from Kanter which work fine) and the new master cylinder.  The master cylinder just wouldn't pump the fluid out, no matter what they tried.  These friends have many years of experience repairing and restoring antique cars.  After many tries and much frustration, I called Kanter and described the problem.  They were very receptive and offered a refund so I sent the defective part back.  I sent the original master cylinder to Apple Hyrdaulics and had them re-sleeve it.  I bought a rebuild kit and my friends used the re-sleeved master cylinder along with the rebuild kit and now the brakes work fine.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well!  I have my brakes up and stopping.  I removed the Kanter Master Cylinder, bench bled it, reinstalled it, I could pump fluid to the wheel cylinder, but it would not pressurize the system when I closed the bleeder.  I rebuilt my existing master cylinder and it works just fine.  I think there is a difference in the pedal push rod on the Kanter vs mine.  Anyway I sent it back to Kanter and received my refund today.  The two front wheel cylinders fit and worked just fine, but the two rear ones have a slightly larger lip at the top of the cylinder and will not fit properly, I will ship them back tomorrow.  Their Rear brake drums fit and work just fine.

 

The front drums I ordered from CARiD, they sent me drums with 5 holes.  I tried to get a return authorization from their website within the 30 days, but heard nothing from them, on the 36th day I emailed them and they REFUSE to take back the 5 hole brake drums.  Plus they refuse to admit they are not the correct ones.

 

If I purchase anything else from CARid I will have to consider myself a CARiDIOT.

 

So Kanter,-Yes, CARid NO WAY

 

Jim

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  • 3 weeks later...

After several attempts I got my brakes working.  The Kanter master cylinder would not pressurize, my first rebuild of my master cylinder was done incorrectly.  The second attempt was not much better.  I finally took it out to my son's house, where we took it apart and verified I had everything installed correctly.  Then we BENCH BLED it, took it home and installed it.  I now have brakes.

 

Kanter was very nice and promptly returned my money, not the case with CARiD, stay away from them.

 

Jim

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