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1936 D2 #1 Cylinder has no Compression. Parts help?


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Afternoon,

I have a 1936 two door sedan with 6 cylinder. Engine starts right up but noticed the engine shaking (maybe mounts) and a slight click near radiator. My friend helped do a compression check and 2-6 had 105 to 115 but cylinder 1 has 0. He told me to get a head gasket, oil pan gasket, and anything else that i should have before i remove the head.

1) where to buy a 1936 head gasket and oil pan gasket,

2) anything else you recommend i fix or replace when i remove the head?

3) is there a diagram that shows which engine bolts to remove first? Like remove 1 bolt near radiator side then remove a second on the firewall side?

4) lastly, anything missing or look out of place with the engine? Been having trouble finding an air cleaner for the carb. 
Thanks in advance!!! 

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Before you go to all the trouble to remove the head, take a look with a light down the spark plug hole to see if it is not a valve stuck open causing no compression. if so maybe you can use penetrant and very gentle persuasion to free it up. I have used a wooden dowel to push a stuck valve closed and it freed up after a few revolutions. Some Marvel Mystery Oil down the carb after will keep things free.

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3 hours ago, JFranklin said:

Before you go to all the trouble to remove the head, take a look with a light down the spark plug hole to see if it is not a valve stuck open causing no compression. if so maybe you can use penetrant and very gentle persuasion to free it up. I have used a wooden dowel to push a stuck valve closed and it freed up after a few revolutions. Some Marvel Mystery Oil down the carb after will keep things free.


thank you for the tip! I had one friend look at it and do what you said so i bought marvel mystery oil and had another buddy say it wont do anything to replace the head gasket. Both friends are excellent mechanics/engineers so i have a lot to learn. Thanks JFranklin!

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If there is no compression at all in one cylinder, it does sound like a stuck valve. You should be able to buy a  Fel Pro gasket set at a good auto store or from one of the Mopar parts houses like Bernbaum Auto. You should try to find a Motor's Manual or a service book for the '36 Dodge. You can find these online and they are worth the cost. If you google the head bolt tightening sequence for this car it might come up. Engine looks complete and those cars used a Burgess sealed air cleaner. I am restoring one of these cars and if you cam wait until next week, I can send you a photo of the air cleaner. I'm away and using another computer that does not have my pics on it. You might contact Ron Lyons in Texas at 713-805-3949 for an air cleaner as he has many parts. Leave a message and he'll call back. Hope you can find the engine issue and gwt it resolved. if you have any questions, please feel free to PM me as I'm on the forum usually once a day. I'm happy to help, if I can.  Jim

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I am not an expert but agree with others here. Don't spend money YET. Find out what is going on, you may not have to take it apart. Even then, take it apart and figure out what you need, you may need more or less then what you first thought. It sounds like you may have not been down this road before? No problem but get a good manual for your year. There is no order to disassembly just assembly. ALL heads start at the center and work out in a circular order. Make your self a drawing or use a magic marker and number the studs. At least three torque levels, starting around 20 or so. Make sure everything is clean and threads are very clean before you start. Patience!

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On 7/14/2021 at 9:46 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

I am not an expert but agree with others here. Don't spend money YET. Find out what is going on, you may not have to take it apart. Even then, take it apart and figure out what you need, you may need more or less then what you first thought. It sounds like you may have not been down this road before? No problem but get a good manual for your year. There is no order to disassembly just assembly. ALL heads start at the center and work out in a circular order. Make your self a drawing or use a magic marker and number the studs. At least three torque levels, starting around 20 or so. Make sure everything is clean and threads are very clean before you start. Patience!

Thanks for the info choclatetown! My first go at a stuck valve/no compression and working on this engine! So much knowledge on this forum!

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Shade tree….maybe! But, if it works, it’s worth repeating here. I used a old spark plug and a air chuck, which fits my compressor hose, and made a thing similar to a compression gauge adapter, to inject pressurized air into each cylinder of my 1923 Dodge Brothers 4 cylinder engine. By removing the spark plugs, and screwing the modified spark plug/air fitting into the spark plug hole, I can bring the piston to TDC, which seals the combustion chamber, and throw some air into the hole…..with the transmission in low and the wheels blocked to prevent the engine from turning off TDC. By listening to the inlet port at the carb, the exhaust ports of the engine, and each of the other spark plug holes, I can easily detect a unsealed intake or exhaust valve or a head gasket leak between cylinders. Also, remove the radiator cap, and with a full radiator, look for bubbles which may indicate either a leaking head casket or cracked head. 

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5 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Shade tree….maybe! But, if it works, it’s worth repeating here. I used a old spark plug and a air chuck, which fits my compressor hose, and made a thing similar to a compression gauge adapter, to inject pressurized air into each cylinder of my 1923 Dodge Brothers 4 cylinder engine. By removing the spark plugs, and screwing the modified spark plug/air fitting into the spark plug hole, I can bring the piston to TDC, which seals the combustion chamber, and throw some air into the hole…..with the transmission in low and the wheels blocked to prevent the engine from turning off TDC. By listening to the inlet port at the carb, the exhaust ports of the engine, and each of the other spark plug holes, I can easily detect a unsealed intake or exhaust valve or a head gasket leak between cylinders. Also, remove the radiator cap, and with a full radiator, look for bubbles which may indicate either a leaking head casket or cracked head. 

Thanks Jack! We did some listening and the only cylinder with a consistent knock sound is the #1 cylinder with no compression which is why i dont think it is stuck but a mechanical issue. I want to try the mystery oil but sounds messy...especially getting it out after i put it in. Coworker and friend helping me listen:

0567C82E-630D-4606-957D-848675D84B6A.jpeg.50e07f1dab9dc73d74ad7897b7923d90.jpeg

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You may have some broken piston rings causing the compression loss, or, and this is highly unlikely, maybe the rod cap came loose and fell of so that the rod is not moving in the cylinder. the knock you hear may be the crank slapping the rod end. Sounds to me, that you may have to pull the head and pan to check. This is not a big job. Here's a picture of the original air cleaner. I'm sure Ron Lyons will have one.

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For what it is worth, most of the L-head (flat head) 6 engine gaskets on Plymouth and US built Dodge passenger cars were the same from around 1933 through the end of production for industrial uses in the early 1970s. There are some variations (head gasket different in 1933/34 and again for internal vs external coolant bypass in the 1950s) but basic engine was manufactured for about 40 years.

 

Because they were used for so many years many parts are still readily available through your local better auto supply. They may not have the cross reference information in their computers, so a place that still has an old set of paper catalogs is a better choice. I have found that the big chain’s web look up tools find matches from the original Chrysler part numbers even if they don’t have the information for your specific make and year, so getting a copy of the factory parts book is really, really, really worth doing.

 

I maintain my own cross reference database for Plymouth to assist in this type of thing. I believe the Dodge and Plymouth numbers are the same for your head and pan gaskets.

 

For the head gasket see: https://www.ply33.com/Parts/group9#9-03-05 The Fel-Pro cross reference is 7564C.

 

For the pan gasket see: https://www.ply33.com/Parts/group10#10-24-05 with a Fel-Pro cross reference to OS4250C.

 

Both should be available, perhaps with a day or so delay to get from a warehouse, at your local auto supply. For that type of thing I usually call my local auto supply in the morning and they usually have it by that same afternoon though it can take longer depending on what warehouse they have to pull from and the schedule for drivers from the warehouses to the retail stores.

Edited by ply33 (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, Mickaisy said:

Thanks Jack! We did some listening and the only cylinder with a consistent knock sound is the #1 cylinder with no compression which is why i dont think it is stuck but a mechanical issue. I want to try the mystery oil but sounds messy...especially getting it out after i put it in. Coworker and friend helping me listen:

0567C82E-630D-4606-957D-848675D84B6A.jpeg.50e07f1dab9dc73d74ad7897b7923d90.jpeg

My 1923 went from October 2019 to March 2020, without a start. I believe it was seized piston rings. A constant soaking in a mixture of MMO and ATF, liberally applied daily, (apparently) freed them up and the engine now runs nearly perfect.

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Did you take off the side cover to see if the valves were moving?  This is a five minute job.  If the valves are free, you can move on to broken piston rings or other possible problems that are causing the noise and lack,of compression.  

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Taylormade said:

Did you take off the side cover to see if the valves were moving?  This is a five minute job.  If the valves are free, you can move on to broken piston rings or other possible problems that are causing the noise and lack,of compression.  

I only do engine stuff when my friend can come over so i dont mess anything up, haha! I am not mechanically inclined and dont know the side cover to check! 
 

Looks like i will be headed out West to fight the large Oregon wild fire. Being a wildland firefighter helps pay for my classic cars but downside is little to no internet in remote areas for a few weeks. 😝

Edited by Mickaisy
Sentence correction (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, ply33 said:

For what it is worth, most of the L-head (flat head) 6 engine gaskets on Plymouth and US built Dodge passenger cars were the same from around 1933 through the end of production for industrial uses in the early 1970s. There are some variations (head gasket different in 1933/34 and again for internal vs external coolant bypass in the 1950s) but basic engine was manufactured for about 40 years.

 

Because they were used for so many years many parts are still readily available through your local better auto supply. They may not have the cross reference information in their computers, so a place that still has an old set of paper catalogs is a better choice. I have found that the big chain’s web look up tools find matches from the original Chrysler part numbers even if they don’t have the information for your specific make and year, so getting a copy of the factory parts book is really, really, really worth doing.

 

I maintain my own cross reference database for Plymouth to assist in this type of thing. I believe the Dodge and Plymouth numbers are the same for your head and pan gaskets.

 

For the head gasket see: https://www.ply33.com/Parts/group9#9-03-05 The Fel-Pro cross reference is 7564C.

 

For the pan gasket see: https://www.ply33.com/Parts/group10#10-24-05 with a Fel-Pro cross reference to OS4250C.

 

Both should be available, perhaps with a day or so delay to get from a warehouse, at your local auto supply. For that type of thing I usually call my local auto supply in the morning and they usually have it by that same afternoon though it can take longer depending on what warehouse they have to pull from and the schedule for drivers from the warehouses to the retail stores.

Thank you for the informative post! Really appreciate the links too! 👍

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1 hour ago, Mickaisy said:

Looks like i will be headed out West to fight the large Oregon wild fire. Being a wildland firefighter helps pay for my classic cars but downside is little to no internet in remote areas for a few weeks. 😝

Thank you for your service!

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17 minutes ago, jpage said:

Yeah, thank you for your service. sounds like an interesting but dangerous job!

 

I can work on a wildland fire engine and pumps but feel like can't do a damn thing with any other engine, lol! 

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On 7/18/2021 at 4:09 PM, Mickaisy said:

Thanks Jack! We did some listening and the only cylinder with a consistent knock sound is the #1 cylinder with no compression which is why i dont think it is stuck but a mechanical issue. I want to try the mystery oil but sounds messy...especially getting it out after i put it in. Coworker and friend helping me listen:

0567C82E-630D-4606-957D-848675D84B6A.jpeg.50e07f1dab9dc73d74ad7897b7923d90.jpeg

Worse case scenario…….several years ago I had a friend who owned a beautiful Chevy with a 283. He said his engine started blowing oil back out the breather and carb, and it had a really funny ticking sound. I asked him if anyone had worked on the engine and he emphatically said “no”. 
So, I stopped by his house and checked the engine. Sure enough the engine compartment was dripping with oil blown from the breather and the air filter was saturated.

The engine did start, and albeit, ran, but not well, and I heard the darndest sound ever which seemed to jump from cylinder to cylinder. He had no compression on number one, and only some on all the others.

I again asked him who had worked on the engine, and he again stated “nobody”.

So, I told him I’d pull the head, but I had no idea what was wrong, or what it would cost to fix it.

The next day was a normal work day for me, it was already late when we started pulling a head……and I wasn’t a happy camper…so I told my friend “If he had lied about having worked on the engine, I was gone, and it was his problem.

Finally the head was off and it was apparent what the problem was. The top of the number one piston was missing and the tops of the other three looked like Swiss cheese.

Again, I asked him what he had done and he admitted that he was tightening the carburetor base flange, and the bolt broke off in the manifold.

Still no explanation for the damage to the piston.

When pressed, he admitted that he had removed the carburetor, drilled into the broken bolt, and attempted to use a easy-out to remove the stub.

Still no explanation to the pistons until he admitted that the easy-out got struck in the hole in the stub, and he could get neither back out…..so he usd some vice grips, and just screwed the stub, with the broken easy out, in until it dropped into the intake manifold. But, he said, the stub and the easy-out disappeared, so he thought they would just find a place to rest in the intake manifold. That’s where they were when he replaced the broken bolt with a new one, and reinstalled the carburetor.

Seems like the tubes to the intake manifold are connected to the cylinders, and some way, the broken bolt and easy out found it’s way there also.

Since the engine had ate a full diet of piston cheese, and surely the crank, cam and bores were shot, I congratulated him on the new 283 he would be buying, and went home. 
And that’s a tale about why a engine had no compression on number one 🙄.

Edited by Jack Bennett (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Worse case scenario…….several years ago I had a friend who owned a beautiful Chevy with a 283. He said his engine started blowing oil back out the breather and carb, and it had a really funny ticking sound. I asked him if anyone had worked on the engine and he emphatically said “no”. 
So, I stopped by his house and checked the engine. Sure enough the engine compartment was dripping with oil blown from the breather and the air filter was saturated.

The engine did start, and albeit, ran, but not well, and I heard the darndest sound ever which seemed to jump from cylinder to cylinder. He had no compression on number one, and only some on all the others.

I again asked him who had worked on the engine, and he again stated “nobody”.

So, I told him I’d pull the head, but I had no idea what was wrong, or what it would cost to fix it.

The next day was a normal work day for me, it was already late when we started pulling a head……and I wasn’t a happy camper…so I told my friend “If he had lied about having worked on the engine, I was gone, and it was his problem.

Finally the head was off and it was apparent what the problem was. The top of the number one piston was missing and the tops of the other three looked like Swiss cheese.

Again, I asked him what he had done and he admitted that he was tightening the carburetor base flange, and the bolt broke off in the manifold.

Still no explanation for the damage to the piston.

When pressed, he admitted that he had removed the carburetor, drilled into the broken bolt, and attempted to use a easy-out to remove the stub.

Still no explanation to the pistons until he admitted that the easy-out got struck in the hole in the stub, and he could get neither back out…..so he usd some vice grips, and just screwed the stub, with the broken easy out, in until it dropped into the intake manifold. But, he said, the stub and the easy-out disappeared, so he thought they would just find a place to rest in the intake manifold. That’s where they were when he replaced the broken bolt with a new one, and reinstalled the carburetor.

Seems like the tubes to the intake manifold are connected to the cylinders, and some way, the broken bolt and easy out found it’s way there also.

Since the engine had ate a full diet of piston cheese, and surely the crank, cam and bores were shot, I congratulated him on the new 283 he would be buying, and went home. 
And that’s a tale about why a engine had no compression on number one 🙄.

Great story! My utter lack of mechanical confidence keeps me from even taking off the head unless my buddy is around. If i did something like your friend did, i definitely would have said something to help with the diagnosis😎. Or know that i have a new crate engine being delivered and not care what i messed up! I would like to keep the original engine, adds to the awesome character of the car! Thanks again for the tale!

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That is a good story.

I guess if a guy screws up he just denies it to save embarrassment.

In the boat business it was always the mechanic friend down the street. Never the boat owner.

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