Screwed at the pumps again!!!!!

[Guest]

Well summer is coming and gas prices have gone up at least 14 cents in my area since last Sunday. And regardless of your opinion of our new President he is a former oil man so the chances of him stepping in and stopping this highway robbery are slim to none. So what do we do ????, do we spend another entire summer getting screwed at the pumps or do we fight back this summer , I dont know about the rest of you but Im a blue collar man with a large mortgage, a 4 year old son in daycare and a car payment.I cant afford gas if it goes to $2.00 a gallon, especially with a full size 4x4 and my classic cars. So I propose the following.<P>Most gas stations these days are also convenience stores offering many other items besides gasoline . They usually charge a little more than aveage for these items but hey you pay for the convenience. Also many owners of classic cars only run the higher grades of gasoline in their cars. Now what do you think would happen to the price of super unleaded gasoline if it just sat in the tanks and turned to varnish !!!!! , The price would have to come down, its the law of supply and demand , if there is no demand then one must be created or your stuck with your supply, so how do you create demand ??? Lower the price . Also when your in paying your fortune for a tank of gas the clerk usually asks if there will be anything else to which my reply usually is " After paying for this gas I cant afford anything else". In other words show the oil companies your displeasure with their prices by limiting your business to only the neccesary purchases( The cheapest gas they are selling ) Tell them you would like to spend more but as far as your concerned youve spent too much already. Now there are those out there who would say this wont do any good because these places arent owned by the oil companies but are owned by private individuals, this may be true but on the other side of the coin , the oil companies are more apt to listen to there distributors complaining than they would listening to us. Second of all I just agreed to buy gas off the guy, not put his kid thru Harvard !!!.Besides doing something whether it works or not is still better than just idly standing by while the oil companies pick our pockets!!!!!!!. To bastardize a saying from the days of WWII as your standing in linae at a convenience store/gas station ask yourself "Was this trip really neccesary????"<P>Dan<BR>77 Electra<BR>70 300 Hurst<BR>62 Fury

[Guest]

In general Americans tend to believe they have a God given right to drive huge 4x4' s and run their airconditioners day and night, from a limited supply of fossil fuels. Their grandchildren will maybe have less natural sources of energy, but hey, who cares, right??<BR>With a better economy, cars have gone bigger to huge, maybe it would be time for a change. Here gas is $ 5.00 a gallon, I converted all my classic v8's to LPG (propane) they run great on this clean burning fuel, octane is 105 and more, so 12:1 comp. engines never ran better. Maybe an idea??

[Guest]

I as an American (alla arthu) 'want' my 2 cents. (g) <P>Gas prices here are ultra close to $2 a gallon, and premium at some stations is already there. A note for anyone in Downtown LA, it's worth the 20min drive to the valley for gas.<P>Now as 77 Survivor says, our new goober of a President hasn't given up being Mr. Oil man, he is still one as is his greedy father. At least he could speak correctly, using words longer then 5 letters. (g) (yea go ahead, flame me, but take alook at the world)<P>Stations these days, 99% have said convenience stores built in, then the other 1% has TacoBell, KFC or a McDonalds built in. One would think that would subsidize the pump prices, even just a little.<P>Now with the added greed of the power companies. (55 million to execs, then file for bankruptcy? gimme a break). CA residents are getting plowed ten ways to Sunday.<P>In fairness to State & Government, Davis hasn't done jack to help us, neither has Goober... Nothing but lined pockets around us, and we're being forced to line them.<P>I agree with Dan in the 'what we should do' department. Most of the classic car buffs, we know who we are, run the good stuff. Sometimes it's forced on us, others it's 'well it just runs better'. Personally, if I don't run 89oct it never wants to shut off. I say strike on the high test gas, run our cars with reduced settings if need be. Stop the demand; let them sit with junk fuel.<P>I have yet to see a store owner who enjoys no profits. These days said owners throw a fit when that condition is true. Let's at least try to force this condition upon them. Who knows, we may actually win one in this degrading world.<P>I like the statement, "After paying for this gas I can't afford anything else". It's a true statement. Rarely made as your lucky if you find a guy willing to give you time of day. Even at the full serve, they say what grade, and how much. That's it! No, can I check this or that? It's worth 20cents to get your hands a lil dirty.<P>The day when you pulled into a station and the boy pumps the gas, checks the oil, tire pressure, washes the windows all for 20cents a gallon are nothing more then a distant memory of years gone by.<P>A note about Harvard before I sign off and wait for flame mail. In America, if a family is "rich", do you really think kids of today go to school beyond high school? I seriously doubt it. They simply say, "We're rich, we don't need to know anything". Most kids today think that why already, regardless of wealth. I'm not saying they're all that way, that's unfair, unjust and untrue. But you must admit when cashiers can't count change, and make the 'duh' face when the computer dies, you can't help but wonder.<P>I suggest a gas strike of all the club members you can find; use the cheapest stuff there is that allows your baby to run. Even a percentage has an impact. Contrary to popular thought, one person can make a difference. Your either sittin on the sideline or you're out doing something about it.<P>If you've come this far, thanks for reading, I enjoyed venting. :-)<P>Now, Just Do It! -nike<P>-S<P>[be sure to catch "That's My Bush" on Comedy Central Wednesday Night after Southpark.]<P>a sidenote to arthu: some people think like that, but most of the sensible ones don't. I think most families consider the future of their kids, you have your big heads here and there but overall, I think most families care. Drive compact cars and larger when needed. Others are just out to show up others with fancy poopoo they don't need.<P>Every, or almost every, male in America dreams of an exotic sports car from Italy, the few who have them, never drive them much. Who wants to fix, or replace a 200k+ car.<P>my 2£ worth.<p>[ 04-26-2001: Message edited by: CyberBuick ]

[caGSxlr8]

OPEC keeps cutting production to raise prices, did we not pull most of their buts out of the fire during the Gulf War??? I know we were supposed to be protecting our interests over there, but I think its time we make them realize that if it was not for NATO they would probably not be selling very much oil... The American tax payers should not be paying to protect them just to get screwed at the pumps......<P>my $0.02<P><P>------------------<BR>'68 GS400 Convert

[The Old Guy]

It is interesting to note that our fuel prices are less than half what they are in Europe, and everyone is REALLY upset. Greed still drives the world, and Exxon made more money last year than GM for the first time. The gas lines of the early 70s are a distant memory ,but it can happen again, and I for one would rather pay more and have fuel available than hope I could get enough to go where I have to!

[Guest]

Well Arthur have I got an answer for you .I am a plow truck driver (remember me mentioning something about blue collar?)I happen to NEED 4 wheel drive cause if Im not at work I know the plow trucks arent out, if that makes me arrogant then so be it . Second of all you said something about americans wanting some God given right to "cheap petrol". No we dont , we just dont want to be sheeple like the europeans, if you dont mind being having your pocketbook raped for a tank of gas then thats your business , but Ill tell you what it bothers the hell out of me!!!!!!!Oh and the reason I drive such a large 4x4 is that its a 79 .....the newest I could afford at the time of purchase .<P><BR>Dan<p>[This message has been edited by 77 Survivor (edited 04-16-2001).]

[ranchero]

the sheeple - yup, y'all buy all that "conservation" & "enviro" crap, but you want to drive v-8 buicks. the issue is not george the second, opec, exxon, convenience stores. it is production. california, you deserve all of the hassle you get. "nimby", huh?<P>the laws of economics can not be revoked by political will of gray davis & the californians. the laws of supply and demand must be understood and respected.<P>so deal with it. the answer is explore, drill, pump, transport, refine. you car nuts need to vote against any conservation/enviro candidates and get with the plan. the interests of the oil men (yup, the pres. & vp) are the same as those of car people. more oil, more coal, more natural gas - plenty of which we have in our country's borders and just off shore. drill at ANWR!

[Dave@Moon]

Dan, et al...<P>I don't want to upset anyone, but.....<P>The local NBC affiliate (I think, I forget exactly which one) ran a network story last week that the price of regular unleaded is expected to <I> exceed <B> $3.00/gal </I> </B> before summer is out. <P> Happy Motoring from your pals in the Exxon, oops I mean Bush Adminstration!! <P>and you thought Gore was the internal combustion engine's worst nightmare!

[Guest]

CyberBuick Since you are so much more articulate than the President, would you please explain to us dimwitted folks just what on earth you were trying to say in your first sentence. Please make an effort to keep it in words of 5 letters or less.

[86 2dr.ltd]

We live in a backwards society,we call it progress but its more like destruct.In the U.S. we have developed into a society that ships things all over hell and back swallowing gallons of diesel like a bunch of suckling pups.I know, I have been in the pulpwood business for 17 yrs.I was burning enough diesel delivering one load of wood to heat a house for 2 winter months.?This was not my choise but BIG business dictates that there are fewer and larger which means more shipping.Now this is a thing of the past as many paper mills have shut down in N.Y. the past 2 yrs...They all blame rising energy costs.Now the big thing is the South American rain forest greed so our paper is going to come from further and our lowgrade trees and tops are going to lay and rot..?But they are saving hords on labor and energy.?OK now this is only one industry and this is the way we do things in Uncle Sams A..<P>Now that theres not much work in rural America most drive any where from 30 to 60miles to get a paycheck of sorts.One gas guzzling car at a time.Some construction workers go 90 miles or better before they get hotel rooms sacrificing income and family life.<P>However we now have snowmobiles that will go 120 mph and people are spending a fortune in gas driving from the cities to the mountains to burn more gas and polute the mountain air and they do!You can smell it strong.Then many country folks have at least two machines themself.<P>Then theres ATV,s more gas,and what about these leaf blowers,my god Ive watched some guys waste countless time blowing huge piles of leafs clear across a lawn when I know they could have carried them in a wheel barrow or bag them in half the time.<P>Most businessess raised their rates last year to make up for the added fuel expence but did their workers pay increase? Gasoline is only the begining, LP went through the roof, next the schools will need more because of the bus runs costing more and the schools costing more to heat.Now the towns and countys and states will need more because of the added expence of road maintenence and shovel leaning.Dont forget the electric companys because,well hell they always need more.Lastly we come back to the thing about shipping things all over hell and back,the grocery store and the department store where the rest of our check goes will be hit with added shipping costs and energy as well.<P>So if we hang in there with our current jobs in another five years if things dont esculate any furthur we the lowly may be back where we were two years ago, you know that trickel down theory.Sorry I mis-spelled thats trick-kill.<P>The sadest thing is those with the power to change these problems are also well to do and cant feel it so they dont bat an eye when they pay their bills.<P>So fret not those of the lowly<P>this is they way it has always been<P>its an age old tradition<P>and is as it should be!..?

[Guest]

you can definitly see that this new administration is 100% pro big business & totally anti-consumer. Never mind that without the consumer the country would be flat broke.<BR>First they repeal workplace protection laws.If you are crippled or burned for life, the government isn't going to lift a finger to help you. Second, our bankruptcy protection is being stripped away even for those who need it. All it will take is one cancer or heart operation to wipe out a family's finances for life. Third, the Supreme Court zapped our right to sue employers for negligence. And the fourth, energy prices(the subject here) which is disgusting. Seems I read only a week ago that the oil companies posted fat juicy profits during the last quarter. Greed sure knows how to rear its ugly head cuz thats all this is--greed by big business

[86 2dr.ltd]

Wait till you get your next insurance premium. Across the board increases in health,auto,life,workmens comp.I thru out the news letter so I cant quote but its from 7-20%.Tuff life that insurance business!<P>Got to pay for those mansions somehow!

[Guest elk93001]

Dave:<BR>Politicians will do what they do best to get elected....Lie ....it's the bipartisan way!<BR>Be it Gore, Bush or anyone of the yahoos that ran....they are all the same!

[Guest]

Guys, this discussion is getting interesting, although it is not about old Buicks.<BR>And yes, you can call us europeans sheeply, for paying an incredible amount of money for fuel, but here the distances are shorter, there is good public transportation, and really, you gotta come see this for yourself, PEOPLE ACTUALLY WALK TO SCHOOL AND THE STORE!!!!<BR>It is really outrageous, but when you walk on the street here, the passing police WILL NOT STOP YOU AND ASK WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING. This happened to me several time while visiting the US.<BR>Keep them Buicks rolling, Arthur<P> <BR>

[BuickNut]

Guess I also wanted to put in my 2 cents worth. The verbage such as "supply and demand" I feel are completely irrevelent concerning this subject. I think a better term would be "PRICE FIXING" -by OPEC, the oil companies, and the distributors. How many times have we heard that there was a storm that blew an oil ship to kindgom come, then that very next day the price at the pump was increased by $0.20 per gallon. Excuse me, but nationwide, that would pay for probably 200 ships being sunk. I DO agree that we need to find ways of conserving what we use, let the people that NEED to drive the big SUV's and 4X4's drive them, etc...but I am staring to look at some of ways to help myself out at the pump by doing all I can to increase gas milage (as previously stated - tuneups, tire air pressure, etc). I have taken the route also to (ok, here's a term...) RECYCLE my old '86 truck and rebuild the engine, replace the tranny, fix all (hopefully !!!) fluid leaks. While I do add to the economy by getting the wife a new vehicle every so many years, I hope I'm saving fuel used in making a new car by recycling an older one for myself (...after all, we DO have to send all those parts to Mexico and China to make cars and car parts so our companies can save money on domestic labor). <P>When I read that there are domestic RENEWABLE sources of fuel that can be used or need further R&D (soy diesel, grain alcohol additives - if they could get it right so the additives don't destroy the fuel system ! ), I know that guys like 'ol GOOBER and the oil companies are doing all they can to squelsh those sources and research....yes folks - our TAX DOLLARS AT WORK (...NOT !!!!) <P>And yes, I do agree about previously mentioned talk about the US saving OPEC's collective butts during the Gulf War. I think we ought to either pull our Flat-tops out of the Gulf, or charge them for our protection. If we pull out, they will definately jump start our ecomony ! The price of oil will go down as they will start selling it cheap to fund their arms buying (Lord knows they can get along at all) and guess who they will be buying the arms from - the good ol US of A defense industry..which need a shot in the arm selling them our old, antiquated stuff !...ok I guess I have vented enough.

[Guest]

What is a BCA forum participant's favorite wine?<P>I'm paying to much everything. The government owes me everything I want at a price I want to pay. I have no responsibility for my own life.<P>Geez!! Grow up people<P>The Hat

[BuickNut]

Excuse me - do you ENJOY paying these high prices so the rich can get richer, or so that OPEC and the oil companies/distributors can rake in the cash and hold us under their thumb ? If I may get a little patriotic here - unless you SPEAK UP(...and I DON'T consider speaking up WHINING ! ), THEN YOU DAMN WELL GET WHAT YOU GET AND DESERVE ! Geez, you seem to be ignorant to the difference between everyday troubles that don't need complaining about, and real issues that DO ! Its people that just lay back and let happen what may- that cause all the apathy in the world. I obviously don't put this up there with issues like abortion, cloning, or the political trama between the US and China...but it is an important issue and affects the US economy already going down the toilet. Its called responsiblity to what's right. Come on...isn't 3 bucks a gallon for no apparant reason something to "whine" about ???<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hatzer:<BR><B>What is a BCA forum participant's favorite wine?<P>I'm paying to much everything. The government owes me everything I want at a price I want to pay. I have no responsibility for my own life.<P>Geez!! Grow up people<P>The Hat</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

[caGSxlr8]

Lets see..... the price of a barrel of oil goes up today and the price of a gallon of gas also goes up today, but when the price of a barrel of oil goes down why does it take 4 weeks for the price of a gallon of gas to go down???????? Boy that oil must travel fast to get to the pumps so quick that we can see the price increase the same day.... Please explain to me why this is allowed to happen.... It is a fine line where the government should interfere with business, but it is the tax payers money that makes this country work and I think this is one area that shows we are being screwed by the oil compainies and the government looks the other way....<P>------------------<BR>'68 GS400 Convert

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hatzer:<BR><B>What is a BCA forum participant's favorite wine?<P>I'm paying to much everything. The government owes me everything I want at a price I want to pay. I have no responsibility for my own life.<P>Geez!! Grow up people<P>The Hat</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK there, Mr. Sheeple!! <P>Then explain to me why in Northeast Ohio during the week (Monday through Thursday) regular unleaded prices are around $1.47/gal. and on the weekends they go up to $1.67/gal. and then come back down on Monday. Does the quality of the fuel increase every weekend? Did the cashiers form a union and get time-and-a-half on weekends? Do the oceans get WIDER on the weekends and the oil carriers have to travel farther?! Does the oil in the wells sink DEEPER every weekend so the rigs have to drill deeper?!! Or do you think the oil companies are just trying to <B>SCREW THE PEOPLE AND LINE THEIR POCKETS???</B> <P>I'm not even going to get started on NATURAL gas!!<P>Those of us who have no clue and go through life with blinders on should <B>KEEP THEIR OPINIONS TO THEMSELVES!!!</B> <P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://advancedthrust.com/mylesabre.htm" TARGET=_blank>1962 LeSabre</A><P>Visit my 1962 Buick Site "<A HREF="http://advancedthrust.com" TARGET=_blank>Advanced Thrust</A>"

[Guest John Chapman]

As I'm seldom one to shy away from controversial topics, I'd like to add my bits:<P><B>Dubya</B>: Well, like 'im or not, and even if he is a Taxis Awl man, it's really hard to blame the guy for things that were put in motion during the eight embarassing years of The Bubba. It'll take a while before we have true Dubya events to trash.<P><B>Gargantuan 4x4 SUVs</B>: Somebody got their feathers ruffled with the comments about users of large four wheel drive vehicles... sheesh, if you've got a real need for it, use it. There are certainly places where they make absolute sense. They do not make sense in SoCal suburbia where the need for high ground clearance and 4x4 is only required when crushing shopping carts on the way to a Nordstrom sale.<P><B>IRS</B>: How'd they get in here? Ever wonder <I>why</I> gargantuan SUVs are popular? How's this wrinkle... If you're a business person (Sched C, C or S Corp, LLP or LLC) the IRS classifies an auto over $15,000 as a luxury vehicle and severely limits your cost deductions for depreciation. BUT, if you buy a vehicle with a GVW of 6,000 pounds or greater for the same business purpose, you can deduct depreciation expenses of $18,500 in year one and the balance prorated over the next five years. So, drive a Kia or drive a Navigator for essentially the same money out of pocket.<P><B>California Engergy</B>: Legistlative bufoonery and botched deregulation aside, of the 50 states, CA ranks 47th in percapita energy use, so it's not like we're all leaving the lights on 24/7. The energy is there, it's just the NIMBYs put it in the hands of other states.... not good when you have what is essentially the worlds 11th largest economy. Being the deregulation test case has been traumatic, but everyone is going to have deregulated engergy, so pay attention to what your pollyticians are doing.<P><B>Gas Prices</B>: By US standards, we ain't seen nothing yet, especially in CA. It's a free market and companies will charge what the market will bear. "$3.19/gallon!...[censored], [censored], [censored]... do you take MasterCards?" As long as those SUVs queue at the pump and the soccer moms/real estate agents/trendy exec keeps buying the gas, the price will go up. Ever notice the irony of grumping about $2.00/gallon gas while drinking $18/gal beer at the tavern or paying $10/gal for drinking water at the QuickPump?<P><B>Variable Gas Prices</B>: Well, who said the station owners couldn't engage in a bit of accepted marketing practice? On weekends, we accept full fare movies, resort/casino hotel rooms, plane tickets, Disneyland tickets and during the week take advantage of early bird specials and matinee prices when possible. Or, you can have what you want when you want it... but it'll cost you.<P><B>caGSxlr8</B>: Gas prices are like lettuce prices... ever notice what happens when SoCal has a bad spell of weather during lettuce season? Price goes from 35© per head to $1.25 by the end of the news brief. They must use the same trucks to haul gas and lettuce. I dunno what your beef is with insurance companies, but things can't be all that rosy in the industry. There have been many consolidations/mergers and collapses in the past four years.<P><B>Economy</B>: Ten years of unprecidented economic growth have run us to the limits of cheap electricity, natural gas and petroleum. Personally, I don't think the economy is in the toilet. It's a bit rough, but generally healthy. I think we're seeing a shake out of marginal performers (companies, products and imployees). Name ONE failed DOT COM that actually produced or provided anything truly useful and/or price competitive. Name one failed ISP that was well-run or price competitive. Pick one person you know that is a good, dependable and honest worker, willing to retrain/change fields, relocate or learn new skills who can't find a decent job. Whiners and 'it's not fairs' don't count.<P>JMC<P>------------------<BR>John Chapman<BR>BCA 35894<BR>1965 Skylark Convertible (Some Assembly Required)<BR> jmchapman@aol.com <p>[This message has been edited by John Chapman (edited 04-17-2001).]

[Guest]

Although I do believe we are using more gas because of all the soccer moms and their SUVs, you needn't look at more than one statistic to find out where all our extra gas money is going. GM, the largest company for decades now has been passed by two companies:<P>Wal-mart #2<BR>and get this:<BR>Exxon-mobil #1<P>hmmm...<P>-T

[Guest]

I just happened onto this site. It seems that those who do not agree with the tone of the postings are invited "To keep their opinions to themselves." My, what a friendly and tolerent group. Is this what the BCA is all about?<P>Stan Riley

[Guest]

I guess some of you just dont think much those of us in Europe. Remarks like some made here are what created the expression "Ugly American." You show no respect for people other than Americans who share your opinions.

[BuickNut]

I don't have a bit of a problem with people disagreeing with me....what I do have a problem with is when others discuss a subject, trying to come up with a solution...SPEAKING UP for what they believe in...only to be told they're whining because they don't go along with the crowd and take all that is shoveled to them. If you examine the above discussions, you will see THAT is what set the whole slew of disagreements off. <P>Europeans aren't wrong in the way they do things anymore than the Japanese or anybody else...we do things differently is all -and you are very free to exercise your right in that regard. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SRiley:<BR><B>I guess some of you just dont think much those of us in Europe. Remarks like some made here are what created the expression "Ugly American." You show no respect for people other than Americans who share your opinions. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

[caGSxlr8]

Hey hatzer or "The Hat", where can I get a pair of the rose colored glasses that you are looking through? I work hard every day for my money just to see it sucked away more and more by big business. I may complain that I am paying too much for some things, but when you see the insurance companies and oil companies making huge profits and taking more and more of my check every week I think I have a right to vent...<P>I bet "hatzer" drives a chevy... <P> <P>------------------<BR>'68 GS400 Convert

[Guest]

Today I was working across the street from a gas station. I watched the price get changed twice in an 8 hour period. There was 4 cent increase about 9 am outside this gas staion. I went to lunch at 11:00 am when I came back at 11:30 there was an additional 3 cent increase over and above the morning increase. But were not getting gouged here , no , this is whining , its unfounded , Im complaining about my not getting what I feel I deserve just because Im an American,Its free enterprise. Ill tell you what , all of you who claim this is whining , or not anything to worry about ....YOU BETTER WAKE UP & SMELL WHAT YOUR SHOVELING!!!!!

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SRiley:<BR><B>I just happened onto this site. It seems that those who do not agree with the tone of the postings are invited "To keep their opinions to themselves." My, what a friendly and tolerent group. Is this what the BCA is all about?<P>Stan Riley</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have no problem with those stating their opinion. That's what creates a good debate and it is educational to all to hear the different ideas from both sides.<P>What I do have a problem with is people who post sarcastic remarks and have no apparent concern for the topic at hand.<P>And as I recall the first "European" comment on this thread was a misinformed attack on American idealisms by "arthu."<BR><P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://advancedthrust.com/mylesabre.htm" TARGET=_blank>1962 LeSabre</A><P>Visit my 1962 Buick Site "<A HREF="http://advancedthrust.com" TARGET=_blank>Advanced Thrust</A>"

[Guest]

Stan, you have not given us your opinion on the subject at hand, rather only one on Americans, so how can we disagree with your gas price opinions? We as a pepole and our perceived 'ugliness' is not what this thread is about. Usually in discussions like this non-Americans have nothing good to say about us and the way we do things, and since I feel we Americans like us Americans, you can expect a few 'disrespectful' remarks if you say something like arthu did. Respect is a two way street. Matt

[Guest]

...and no, this is not what the BCA is about. It is about a bunch of cool people with a bunch of cool cars. If you would look at more than one thread in one discussion forum, you would see this. Like you said, you just happened on this site recently. Stick around. Matt

[Guest]

I beg your collective pardons. 77Survivor had another post on another forum entitled <BR>"Gas prices and European Sheep." wherein he was a bit insulting to we Europeans. I appear to have responded on the wrong forum. It should be Mr. 77Survivor whom I find offensive and not the BCA forum. Sorry<P>Stan

[Guest]

OH GOD......SOMEBODY DOESNT LIKE ME, oh how will I live with the shame.<P>Ugly American

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 77 Survivor:<BR><B>OH GOD......SOMEBODY DOESNT LIKE ME, oh how will I live with the shame.<P>Ugly American</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I never called you UGLY AMERICAN, nor did I ask for the help of God, nor do I disagree anywhere that oilcompanies make profits that are way beyond reasonable (hope this last sentence is good english, it is not my native language).That seems to be a negative side effect of "free trade".(If you can call OPEC free trade).I have no reason to make you feel bad, it is not and will never be my intention. It is just a whole lot of fun to discuss stuff and have different opinions about things.I think it would be a very boring forum if we would agree all the time. Stay happy, Arthur<P>

[Fr. Buick]

Hey, Arthu!<P>Good point on the price of gas in Europe. I spent five years in grad school in Belgium without a car and had a good time on public transportation. I walked everywhere, and felt the loss as soon as I got home again. Mind you, Europe has to pay the price for such good systems, and I suppose it comes from the tax that brings gas to $5 per gal. They buy oil from OPEC at the same price as we do. The difference is taxes.<P>The more fundamental difference, though, is way of life: how cities and comunities are built, where we work, how mobile we feel we need to be, and how we like to get around - all deep parts of a culture. To even consider it is like asking a fish how the water tastes.<P>I love big cars and lots of horsies too, but I wonder if the idea of modest protests to the oil industry will go nowhere because what must change is our culture. I like my culture, and I suppose I'm wiling to pay for it - at least for now. Any serious change will have to begin with me before it begins at EXXON!<P>Off to the freeway for my ride home...<P>Doug Cook<BR><P>------------------<BR>

[Guest]

Let's all keep in mind that "us americans" may not all think alike. We all don't put things in too big of boxes(oh..no!), or drive gas guzzling vehicles. Just as "you europeans" may not all be anti-american or know how to read and write(to use someones example). Please don't generalize "us americans" and you will hopefully get the same treatment.<P>-T

[Guest]

One thing Europe has that we do not is intercity rail transport. One can take a train from almost any town to any town most hours of the day in Europe, but here the only daily transport like this is in large the cities to the suburbs (such as Chicago, New York). But for ninety percent of the nation, this service is just not available. I live in Kansas, and I would dig being able to hop a train to Kansas City or Dallas for the day, but this just is not available to me. I either have to drive my car or pay the national debt and fly. In the fifties and early sixties, our love for cars ran the train servises out of business. So, for us here, gas prices are a concern because we really have limited transportation choices. Look at it this way, if someone in Paris has a meeting in a town 75 miles away, they can take any number of trains that leave almost every hour of the day. In most states here, that person has to drive their car. Flying that short of a distance is out of the question, and our bus transportation franlky sucks. The European train system is a well oiled one, and I wish we had that here, but that will never happen. Matt

[SBRMD]

Arthu: Greetings Fellow Sportwagoner - question - how did you convert to lpg??? Please e-mail me, SBRMD@AOL.COM<P>Thanks,<P>Steve.

[86 2dr.ltd]

You answered a question I was going to ask Arthu,that was ,isnt taxes the reason gas is high in Europe?<P>Well here we have expensive health insurance,private Universities are around 30,000 and state and community around 15,000.Real estate is beyond reason and our school systems are staffed by people who make 50% to 100% more than the average parents of the kids, and thats in a short work year.Many are O.K. to good and most are lacking.Way back when, my teachers taught to the brainy bookworms and couldnt capture the attention of the remaining 95% of their class.I have been the one who has taught my daughter math the last two years..?We pay big money in school taxes each year.Its a big chunk of many incomes and if you own any amount of land because you dont want to live in a "neigborhood" its your years savings-for common folks.Now mind you these are developments for our generation not our parents, we have seen great change! Many older retired folks here with pensions can barely hold on to their homes , land and school taxes are so high.The tax base has increased tremendously because of the subdivisions and new homes and the people that sell their land hardly see a savings because the new house next door "has increased the value of your house".But with all the new revenue from more properties to tax,the countys and towns just cant find enough money to maintain the existing highway systems that were built 100 years ago.Yet the heavy truck highway use tax and the taxes on gas and diesel excede the amount spent annualy on roads.But hey,we've been to the moon,got stuff on mars,satelites to spy on everyone and enough explosives to blow mother nature a big new you know what,so what are we whining about?<P>Many of the blue collar workers working today have little to none of a retirement plan going unless they belong to one of those "evil unions" and health insurance that covers little or costs $85.00 per week which is over 2.00 per hour just from the workers pay who knows what the companys kick in.<P>Gasoline went up another 6 cents a gallon today,3 cents yesterday.Does this happen to you in Europe?<P>Do many Europeans drive 30 to 70 miles to work each day.Rural U.S has been destroyed, does this mean we country folks need to become suburbanites?<P>What about inner urban U.S.?That has been destroyed for decades because we make nothing in the U.S. any more.What are those people living there supposed to do for income? Sure we have lots to say about those people,but do we have work for them in the first place?<P>Sure John we can retrain,relocate and take another seat at the bottom of the totem pole and start again maybe get one of those good $22,000 per year jobs..?Lots of them out there.!Take out taxes,gas,health insurance,rent-morgage,land and school taxes,auto insurance,car loan,-----o yea,we need to eat and wear cloths,damn hope the old 100,000 + mile car dont break down.Hope you can get the point.<P>On public transportation,yes we need a better one and need to use it,but isnt the U.S about the size of all of Europe.Hasnt corporate U.S bought out and consolidated and shut down and moved out most decent jobs creating a place where people have to drive further to find work.Pulling roots is always easiest for those who dont have to (arm chair coaches) or those who know they are going on to something better.<P>The main thing I notice here is the whiners are those I suspect to be in the $30,000 or less catagory and those calling us whiners cant see it from their house.Im glad Arthu you can travel abroad,I'm hoping I can get a vacation out of town someday.<P>The problem in the U.S. is the amount of people making $60,000 to $400,000 is large enough that they can feel that these extra burdons are not bad enough to do anything about where as the other half in the $20,000 to $30,000 are saying enough is enough,get your hand out of my pockets!We are all contributing parts of society,what makes your part worth so much and ours worth so little?We have to live in the same world that you have no problem being able to afford.<P>Off topic?Not really, this is what I believe makes the whiners whine and the whiner callers call whiner!<P>How does this relate to Buicks?I feel my chances of that 430 Rivera dream slipping further out of reach!As well as many other hopes.<P>Change is easiest for those that dont have to change!

[Guest]

My reason for reacting like I did was not to be anti-american, I just think that increase in fuel prices is not bad for the worlds fuel supply, that is not limitless. A treehugger would say 25 years, an oilman 100 years, I really do not care how long, but NOT LIMITLESS.<BR>An increase in price will result in lower energy waste, a good thing.<BR>If people get hurt by higher fuel prices, they might start to think about it. <BR>I have received numerous parts from the US in boxes that were 5 times bigger than the part. Maybe you will recognize this.<BR>Why??? Not because they want to protect the parts better, just because the price of mail, or UPS is so low, nobody cares how big a box is, or how big the truck has to be that tranports it.<BR>So do not call me anti-american or worse, if I do not like to be called "sheeply"<BR>The price of gas here is the same as everywhere, we just put a whole lot of taxes on it, so we can send our kids to good Universities for about $ 800.00 a year, take care of people who get injured, or need to be hospitalized. We even teach our children how to read and write, and not just take care that they "feel good about themselves". Teachers here are even qualified, and roads here do not have holes, and we do not have to warn anybody not to go into certain neighborhoods. And we are not communists...<BR>I hope you do not mind I will keep visiting the US and enjoying the land and its people, and its cars of course....

[BuickNut]

Ok..without getting into a "group hug" thing - it sounds like there's agreement about differences in societies driving the differences between Euro and the US. I am very envious of the reputed rail system in Europe, as well as use of the bike and walking (yikes !!!) as viable transportation. Unfortunately, with all the malls being light years away, and small towns/big cities downstowns no longer existant, we here in the US are kinda doomed to the long drives. I think the point was VERY well made about our society needing to change. Not necessarily to mimic the European way...but in a way that is in line with our own way...but using alot of Euro ideas to get there. Hey, maybe look at Asian countries where they ride bikes ALOT to get from A to B too. (Am I long winded or what....)

[Guest]

Frankly, EVERYTHING SUCKS!!<BR> Prices on everything increases rapidly, but the rate of pay stays the same? <BR> $10.00 per hour is slave labor in this society..Well, where I am anyway..How could I possibly support my wife & 2 children on $10.00 an hour? $400 less 12% Fed Tax, less another 12% state tax, less FICA & Medicare Tax, Less health insurance = $220 NET..after Paying $1000 per month for rent of this crapy slum, theres $80 a month for GAS, utilities, vehicle maintenance because I rely on my vehicle to go to work, kids clothes..DEBT, DEBT..not to mention the 3x daily x 4 person food shortage around here!!<P> Sorry if I WHINE...Damn right I will..I am sick of all of it!!<P> All the big business increase prices, but not our pay..THIS IS THE KEY HERE..<BR>The cost of living is so frickin high...<BR>Pretty pathetic that 2 years ago $21.00 would fill my tank, now it costs me $44.00 to fill the same tank!! My rent has doubled, my insurance has gone up, my taxes have gone up, food has gone up, public transportation has gone up..WHAT THE [censored]...My pay rate is still the same..2 years ago I lived nice & comfortable with this..now I'm a goddamn pauper <P> What kind of frickin world do we live in that a damn suit & tie paper pusher that does no physical or ACTUAL work & contributes nothing tangible gets paid BIG bucks, but those that sweat & bust their balls with hard, tedious & tiresome back breaking physical work get paid jack poopoo!<BR> Not to mention all the regional differences too..here in the northeast, everything is so damn expensive...<BR> I surfed some classified ads of the southeast & it appears much is half of here in the north..<BR> My same job function at $10.00 per hour will still get me $10.00 an hour in Florida, Georgia, etc...However, for the same 1k per month I pay to live in this frickin slum in the ghetto will get me a very nice big HOUSE with all the trim, garage, yard, pool, tennis court, etc..Damn much less too..<BR>I applied for a rental in pensacola that's a 4 bdrm, 2 bath, garage, yard, pool, etc..for $605 per month...Oh, but here in frickin taxafukinchushits..$1000 gets me in a crime ridden rat infested drug scum ghetto hovel with no yard, no pool & too many nasty rude people...I also hear an attitude change in other parts of the us..why are people more nice & friendly in the southeast & midwest..There cold, callous, selfish & nasty in the northeast, & they frankly dont give a [censored] in the west coast!!<P> Yesterday, I paid $1.54 per gallon..Today at same station it was $1.69..<BR>$20 will not even get me 1/2 a tank..I'll be lucky to get 90miles in this 66 lesabre!!