1925 Cadillac 2021 Adventure

[TAKerry]

As a side note, ive never put it in the radiator but it does work wonders for old hardware. I soak the rusty parts in a bin filled with the stuff. Pull them out hit with a wire wheel and they look new again. I will have to shop at walmart, I get mine at TSC and it is usually $20+

[edinmass]

5 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Should be able to, you can normally get it powdered, too.

Search for ascorbic acid (otherwise known as vitamin C).

 

Phil

 

 

It will damage paint, copper, brass, and paint. Evapo rust will not. All things are NOT equal. Placing acid in a cooling system is NEVER a good idea.

[Matt Harwood]

It is never cheap to make a car right. If you don't care if it's not right, then cheap is fine. I have finally learned that spending all the money it takes to do it right means that I don't have to stand by the side of the road with a broken car wondering why my cut-rate solutions let me down.

[old car fan]

Not with any brass, 

[PhilAndrews]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

It will damage paint, copper, brass, and paint. Evapo rust will not. All things are NOT equal. Placing acid in a cooling system is NEVER a good idea.

Arguably. In the block only yes. However you need a chelating agent if you want to use it in a multi-metal environment.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said:

Arguably. In the block only yes. However you need a chelating agent if you want to use it in a multi-metal environment.

 

I agree, but why chance anything? In the big picture evapo is cheap for the results it provides with no damage whatsoever.

[hidden_hunter]

7 hours ago, old car fan said:

Not with any brass, 

 

Which the cadillac does have on its water outlet pipes coming out of the block 

[95Cardinal]

Kurt,

I'm sorry you didn't make it all the way to Petoskey.

I'm happy to read that you got as far as you did and I enjoyed reading about your Cadillac adventure.

Sorry that I couldn't join you, but I hope to see your car at the Gilmore for the Cadillac LaSalle Club Fall Festival!

Joe

[wayne sheldon]

 

I keep hoping to see some updates and analysis of the overheating issue. Hopefully it isn't anything serious. Rust and gunk gumming up the works is a common problem with antique automobiles. And if a car sits for several years, and then gets driven a bunch, that stuff can shift and cause problems. I have heard in the past that Cadillacs are a bit prone to that problem (something to do with the way the water flows through the cylinders angled from the V?). Hopefully, a good back-flush cleanout, followed by Ed M's Evaporust treatment (follow his directions!) can solve the problem for many years of enjoyable touring!

[hidden_hunter]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:54 AM, wayne sheldon said:

I keep hoping to see some updates and analysis of the overheating issue. Hopefully it isn't anything serious. Rust and gunk gumming up the works is a common problem with antique automobiles. And if a car sits for several years, and then gets driven a bunch, that stuff can shift and cause problems. I have heard in the past that Cadillacs are a bit prone to that problem (something to do with the way the water flows through the cylinders angled from the V?). Hopefully, a good back-flush cleanout, followed by Ed M's Evaporust treatment (follow his directions!) can solve the problem for many years of enjoyable touring!

 

I'm not sure how much of it would get pumped back through the engine versus settling in the water passages in the block (which are massive)

[wayne sheldon]

15 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

I'm not sure how much of it would get pumped back through the engine versus settling in the water passages in the block (which are massive)

 

As I recall from reading his posts on the subject, part of his directions included filtering the stuff out. For his White that had been sitting for decades, he began with an electric pump and connections to flow through the radiator and block, with some sort of filter in the system. Done before the engine was even started.

After the system is mostly cleaned, some people use a lady's hose between the block and radiator to catch additional crud. But I would recommend taking Ed M's advice on that. He has developed a process that should give the best results economically possible.

[hidden_hunter]

1 hour ago, wayne sheldon said:

After the system is mostly cleaned, some people use a lady's hose between the block and radiator to catch additional crud. But I would recommend taking Ed M's advice on that. He has developed a process that should give the best results economically possible.

 

Mine's all good, I got it hot tanked after I removed the bulk of it - but it's more that I"m suggesting it would be less susceptible than other designs (e.g our 26 buick has less places for the big chunks to settle before it blocks things)

[wayne sheldon]

The 1925 series 80 Pierce Arrow I had thirty years ago? The radiator had been cleaned by a previous owner. But when I began sorting the car for myself, I found several things NOT tour ready. No gear oil in the differential, no grease in the distributor gears. When I pulled the covers off the water jackets, I found the rust gunk literally half filled the water jacket from front to back (a bit deeper in the back due to the slope of the engine)! I also found the remains of the original baffles that were supposed to push the water down and distribute it from front to back. There was just enough of that baffle left to copy from it and make a replacement. When I was done, I used an infrared (often called 'laser') thermometer to check how evenly the engine was cooled on a hot day. MANY times better than the pre-cleaning test I had done! After about a month of sorting, I was quite comfortable driving the car on tours of a few hundred miles, and never had any overheating issues at all.

[Grimy]

13 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

The 1925 series 80 Pierce Arrow I had thirty years ago? The radiator had been cleaned by a previous owner. But when I began sorting the car for myself, I found several things NOT tour ready. No gear oil in the differential, no grease in the distributor gears. When I pulled the covers off the water jackets, I found the rust gunk literally half filled the water jacket from front to back (a bit deeper in the back due to the slope of the engine)! I also found the remains of the original baffles that were supposed to push the water down and distribute it from front to back. There was just enough of that baffle left to copy from it and make a replacement. When I was done, I used an infrared (often called 'laser') thermometer to check how evenly the engine was cooled on a hot day. MANY times better than the pre-cleaning test I had done! After about a month of sorting, I was quite comfortable driving the car on tours of a few hundred miles, and never had any overheating issues at all.

Wayne, did you have any "adventures" removing the water jacket cover?  Like breaking a few of the 39 teeny-tiny 1/4-28 bolts?  For my two (now down to one) Series 80s, I was fortunate enough to find stainless water jacket cover reproductions that were accurate in external shape and internal baffles.  I chucked a piece of "wiggly wire" (i.e., twisted-wire fence material) into a drill to knock loose some of the rust which was clogging the passages around the rear two cylinders.  Much time spent, but with excellent results!

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, Grimy said:

Wayne, did you have any "adventures" removing the water jacket cover?  Like breaking a few of the 39 teeny-tiny 1/4-28 bolts?  For my two (now down to one) Series 80s, I was fortunate enough to find stainless water jacket cover reproductions that were accurate in external shape and internal baffles.  I chucked a piece of "wiggly wire" (i.e., twisted-wire fence material) into a drill to knock loose some of the rust which was clogging the passages around the rear two cylinders.  Much time spent, but with excellent results!

 

 

On the Pierce, I was very careful and took my time with those bolts! The 1929 Reo I had when in high school (my first running antique automobile) gave me fits for days cleaning out the water jackets. I ended up breaking about a third of the bolts, drilling, tapping, cleaning. In the end, it was worthwhile. The car was a great runner, and never had overheating issues. Similar fun with a couple other cars had taught me that a bit more time in the beginning paid off in the long run.

[edinmass]

All those little 95 year old rusty bolts is why I treat every car with evapo rust BEFORE I pull the water jacket. That way you don’t end up drilling twenty holes after the fact.

[hidden_hunter]

The other thing to check (and I don't know how if/how it would affect the cooling system) is that there is a procedure to fill the cooling system that involves rotating a knob on each of the water pumps to fill and then back when it's filled. I've never had the pumps off to know what it actually does but it's worth checking

[HarryLime]

What does Ed recommend using after the Evapo-rust ? Thanks..........

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, HarryLime said:

What does Ed recommend using after the Evapo-rust ? Thanks..........

 

Depends on what your doing........the engine, how many dissimilar metals, ect. Usually I run regular green NON EXTENDED LIFE anti freeze sold at NAPA as “pre 1994 green coolant.” I also change my coolant every three years regardless of anything else. Some cars I install an anode.......some not all. Now that I’m getting older preventative maintenance only has to last another 25 years. 

[Grimy]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

All those little 95 year old rusty bolts is why I treat every car with evapo rust BEFORE I pull the water jacket. That way you don’t end up drilling twenty holes after the fact.

Both my S80s got cleaned before Evaporust came on the market in 1999.

[edinmass]

34 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Both my S80s got cleaned before Evaporust came on the market in 1999.

 I pulled my first Pierce water jacket cover in 1983..........when I was 17. All the bolts cam out fine. Only problem today is, it’s forty years later and the bolts are much more rusty!

Edited June 30, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

 I pulled my first Pierce water jacket cover in 1983..........when I was 17. All the bolts cam out fine. Only problem today is, it’s forty years later and the bolts are much more rusty!

Time eventually catches up with all of us Ed. Was at a salvage yard yesterday that I have been going to for years. It is still family run. The original owner is now 94. When I first started going there he had gray hair and I thought he was old. He was around 45 or 50 then. Here we are 40 plus years later. Dandy Dave!

[JRA]

I had similar issue when I bough my 1929 Chrysler 75. I have worked on the brakes, suspension, cleaning oil pan, changing all lubricants, flushing radiator, steering box, then I was happy doing my first ride. Just 30 minutes later, lots of steam coming from the engine compartment...

There was a rust hole in one of the water jacket covers. When I removed both of them to fix, I got very impressed with the amount of mood. I have used high pressure water jet to clear everything, it was mess! After that, I no longer had problems with engine overheating.

I did this 10 years ago, so maybe I should now try an evapo-rust preventative treatment, what do you think?

[Dandy Dave]

Found this video on rust removal interesting. Dandy Dave! 

 

[Robert G. Smits]

On 6/29/2021 at 6:36 PM, edinmass said:

Now that I’m getting older preventative maintenance only has to last another 25 years.

Ed,  what would you recommend for preventive maintenance at age 81?  A couple of weeks!!!

[Kurt Zimmerle]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:58 AM, Kurt Zimmerle said:

The over heating happened when I was pushing her a little hard going up and down big hills.  It wasn’t bad during normal drives most days.  I am so close to home I thought I could get her there to start Tim keeping more on it and. Check it out.

 

I remember Carl saying these cars run cool so I was surprised when we would get hot. 
 

it was upper 70s when it happened on some big hills around Empire.

 

I have since learned that it was low on oil so that was part of why it was getting warm.  now know it takes 2 gallons of oil and she is very happy.  The oil is suppose to help with the cooling also.

 

[Kurt Zimmerle]

On 6/27/2021 at 8:54 PM, wayne sheldon said:

 

I keep hoping to see some updates and analysis of the overheating issue. Hopefully it isn't anything serious. Rust and gunk gumming up the works is a common problem with antique automobiles. And if a car sits for several years, and then gets driven a bunch, that stuff can shift and cause problems. I have heard in the past that Cadillacs are a bit prone to that problem (something to do with the way the water flows through the cylinders angled from the V?). Hopefully, a good back-flush cleanout, followed by Ed M's Evaporust treatment (follow his directions!) can solve the problem for many years of enjoyable touring!

I have learned that the car was low on oil it takes 2 gallons of oil and that is part of the "cooling system" for the car.  she has been doing well around town but I just broke the universal joint anybody know where to get one of those?

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, Kurt Zimmerle said:

I have learned that the car was low on oil it takes 2 gallons of oil and that is part of the "cooling system" for the car.  she has been doing well around town but I just broke the universal joint anybody know where to get one of those?

 Broke? That doesn’t sound right. It’s a dump truck chassis with a car body on it. Drive line failures are almost non existent on Cadillacs from that era. The ball joint at the torque tube on 29-31 cars fail often. In fifty years of driving early Caddy’s I have never heard of a joint failure.  And when young, I pounded the hell out of my cars. 

[Kurt Zimmerle]

15 hours ago, edinmass said:

 Broke? That doesn’t sound right. It’s a dump truck chassis with a car body on it. Drive line failures are almost non existent on Cadillacs from that era. The ball joint at the torque tube on 29-31 cars fail often. In fifty years of driving early Caddy’s I have never heard of a joint failure.  And when young, I pounded the hell out of my cars. 

It shifts into gear but doesn't go anyway I have the parking break off, it shifts like its suppose to but will not engage or move when its in gear and I let the clutch out.  What would be your diagnosis clutch or gears?  I will have to trailer it to the repair shop.

[JFranklin]

Remove the back wheels and see what might be going on. Are the axles turning?

[edinmass]

Sounds like a broken axel to me.

 

If so, an easy fix. No need to go to a shop if you have basic skills.

Edited July 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

I'd probably suggest jacking the rear wheels and then working either backwards from the gearbox or forwards from each wheel and verifying the function of each components (axle, diff, prop shaft, u joints) . I'd liken your problem to having a hole in a pipe, everything beyond that break isn't going to do much

[edinmass]

Just put the rear up on jack stands, and pull the oil filler plug. (not drain, filler!)Look in with a light. With the car running and in gear at idle, you should see the carrier turning. If so, you know it's an axel. You should pull both sides anyways for inspection, seal, and bearing service. You should be able to diagnose in in less than half an hour start to finish. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Kurt Zimmerle]

On 6/22/2021 at 9:12 AM, TAKerry said:

Its a shame you ended up short. Looks like a fun trip none the less.

 

Gonna play the devils advocate here- You said the wheel bearings were shot which was one of the problems that ended your journey prematurely. Just out of curiosity, did you do any preventive maintenance along the way, thorough inspection of operating systems etc.? Or was it a drive and go?  

We discovered that the washer part thing that usually connects into the locking nut was put on backwards and that's what made the wheel bearing go bad.

[Kurt Zimmerle]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:01 PM, edinmass said:

 Broke? That doesn’t sound right. It’s a dump truck chassis with a car body on it. Drive line failures are almost non existent on Cadillacs from that era. The ball joint at the torque tube on 29-31 cars fail often. In fifty years of driving early Caddy’s I have never heard of a joint failure.  And when young, I pounded the hell out of my cars. 

you were correct it was the rear left axel by the hub it had been welded before but broke.

[edinmass]

5 hours ago, Kurt Zimmerle said:

you were correct it was the rear left axel by the hub it had been welded before but broke.

That’s the good news. Bad news is trying to locate a spare rear. Clutch chatter is the usual cause. If you have it, fixing the rear end is only half the problem. You need a smooth clutch, or it will keep occurring. Welding it will NEVER hold. You need an axel. 

[Kurt Zimmerle]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

That’s the good news. Bad news is trying to locate a spare rear. Clutch chatter is the usual cause. If you have it, fixing the rear end is only half the problem. You need a smooth clutch, or it will keep occurring. Welding it will NEVER hold. You need an axel. 

What is clutch chatter?  I feel like she is shifting pretty good but want to learn as much as I can.

 

Thank you

[edinmass]

Kurt...PM me your phone number and a good time to call after five tonight.  Ed