Any ideas what motor is in my Riviera

[telriv]

Art,

 

    It's just an assumption on my part.  From my perspective at this point I would say yes unless others with more knowledge than myself may "assume" otherwise.

 

Tom T.

[Zack209]

Sorry fellas I been busy slumped with work, but as of the Rivera I had another question so when I start to brake I feel the car shake like it’s jumping to stop I haven’t replaced the shoes yet cuz I thought if it was the shoes the steering wheel column will shake but only I only feel the body shaking. I was thinking maybe the bushings or bearings just wanted to see what y’all thought about my situation. 

[RivNut]

To me it sounds like your drums are too far out of spec and the shoes are not making full contact and they are skipping inside the drum.  

[Zack209]

So when I took of the rear passenger tire I noticed the brake shoe was chewed up idk how but I ordered the part and will be putting it in tomorrow hopefully that will Solve the problem. I also checked the bearings they seemed all good 

[1965rivgs]

3 hours ago, Zack209 said:

So when I took of the rear passenger tire I noticed the brake shoe was chewed up idk how but I ordered the part and will be putting it in tomorrow hopefully that will Solve the problem. I also checked the bearings they seemed all good 

  Hard to tell from the perspective of the pic but It looks like your short shoe is installed on the back...short shoe should be installed on the front, long shoe toward the rear,

Tom Mooney

[EmTee]

It looks like there's a crack in the upper/outer corner of the friction material.  Also, these appear to be bonded shoes and if the lining is partially detached from the steel backing that could cause it to drag.  The vibration from the rear could also result from distortion of the drum(s).  Setting the parking brake with hot drums can sometimes cause them to take an out-of-round 'set'.  If you invert the drum on the axle and rig something to anchor a dial indicator (or just a stationary 'pointer') you can rotate the drum and check for excessive run-out.  If that's the issue, hopefully you can still find someone locally capable of turning them true again.

[Zack209]

I finally changed all the shoes and resurfaced the drums adjusted the bearings but when I start braking at 40+ mph I still feel the back end shake

[RivNut]

When you resurfaced the drums did you measure the inside diameter of the drums?  If they are beyond spec, the shoes might not be able to expand far enough to get a grip an the drum and the drum is skipping on the shoes.

[EmTee]

How do the rear suspension bushings look?  Could the rear-end be moving around when transitioning from acceleration to braking?

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, Zack209 said:

I finally changed all the shoes and resurfaced the drums adjusted the bearings but when I start braking at 40+ mph I still feel the back end shake

  Look for a bad tire...change out your rear tires one at a time with a known good wheel/tire to target the problem tire.

  Good luck!

Tom

[Zack209]

When they Resurface the drums they put it to spec. I have brand new cobra radial tires. Bushings seem to be good. It’s just the back end that shakes 

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Zack209 said:

When they Resurface the drums they put it to spec. I have brand new cobra radial tires. Bushings seem to be good. It’s just the back end that shakes 

Spec on brake drums is how far out you can go before they get too thin or are so much bigger than the shoes that they're not able to provide sufficient braking surface.  NO WAY can they "put it to spec", they just can't go beyond.  Have you checked your chassis manual to see what the maximum to which they can be turned?  Did the guys who did your brakes have access to these "specs?"

[Zack209]

The shop I took the drums to said they looked up the spec online to surface the drums to the best of its ability to it. 

[Zack209]

So after a long month I finally found out that it’s the axels that are bent causing the car to shake, but now I can’t find any place that has them I tried eBay every parts store around my area. Do any of y’all have an idea we’re I could find them.

[RivNut]

First. How did you bend an axle, they’re housed in a cast iron tube. Secondly. That’s probably going to have to be a used part.  Look for ‘Used parts’ in the Riview or someplace like the CTC auto ranch in Denton Texas.  Would Gene Guarnere have such apart?

[1965rivgs]

4 hours ago, Zack209 said:

So after a long month I finally found out that it’s the axels that are bent causing the car to shake, but now I can’t find any place that has them I tried eBay every parts store around my area. Do any of y’all have an idea we’re I could find them.

Hi Zack,

  I should have a pair of axles but would need to eyeball my inventory to be sure. Depending on your location they might be pricey to ship. Send me a PM and we`ll see if we can work out the details.

Tom

[Zack209]

Hi Rivnut I just picked up the riv from the shop they had it on the lift and they’re telling me that both axels where it connects to the drums are bent and has a lot of play that’s what’s causing my shaking issue when braking. I told him how are both axels bent in exactly same location but he insisted I need new axels I brought up maybe wheel bearings he said no... so he advised me get axels. 

Rivigs how much shipped to 95351

[RivNut]

I would want to see the old axles after the new ones are installed.  Just keep that mechanic honest. Did he pull the axles? If not, how is he determining that they are bent?  I’m curious as much as anything.

[Zack209]

17 minutes ago, RivNut said:

I would want to see the old axles after the new ones are installed.  Just keep that mechanic honest. Did he pull the axles? If not, how is he determining that they are bent?  I’m curious as much as anything.

I’m as curious as you are my friend... how both axles get bent in same identical location... I will be asking for old ones for sure but he reassures me by replacing axles will solve my extreme violent vibrating issue while braking... fingers crossed I guess guys... should I jack car up and send pics of rear axles?

[RivNut]

He will also put new bearings in when he installs the new axles.  He’ll be changing two variables in one step. Didn’t we all learn in General Science you only change one variable at a time.  I’ll be anxious to hear the outcome of this.

[telriv]

Zack,

 

   I bought my '64 Riv. new in 1964 when I was 18yrs. old.  Today the car has 313K on it.   I NEVER did crazy things like doing neutral drops, smoking the tires for no reason to SHOE OFF to my buddys or anyone else who may have been around.  Since the car was new I'm not saying I was very kind to it. It's had a rough life being an 18 yr. old at the time. As an example, when it was around 6 months old I broke my 1st. left front motor mount.  Now this was a made in the ole USA part made in 1964. Well this replacement mount broke in less time.  As I fiddled with the tune on the engine to give it more power as time went on I was replaceing the mount more often. Even though it was fairly easy to replace it was getting boring as of I could almost count on it would brake at the most inconveniat time like when I had some type of auto race.  I had to do something about this.  I thought & thought of what I could do to make the mount last longer.  Finally I came up with a few solutions. Tried a few different things but they all caused too much movement. One of the things I thought of was to use 4 links of chain.  Since then I haven't had to replace the mount EVER again & it's been over 50 years since I broke the last one. Even racing the car at the drag strip & using my slicks as now the stock bias ply tires would provide little or no traction. The best it ran at the time, as it was still mostly stock, The Riv. was getting closer to the mid upper 14's.  Then I lost my license, for drag raceing of course. I was going to be without it for awhile. I got a special license because my job required me to have one or else I had no job, as being a mechanic I definately needed one.

I figured I would pull the engine to rebuild it as IF it was able to run I would get the itch & drive it. Couldn't just let it sit there as it was IF it was running I would probably drive it & not have my license today. TOO much of a temptation.

 I did a little head & intake manifold porting. At the  time TRW was coming out with their new Forged slipper skirt pistons which I had to wait for which ended up being 5 months & almost a year for the new, at the time, double Moly Rings. I used mostly all stock replacement componets.   The next problem was the stock camshaft as it was discontinued sometime in early '64. At the time there were 6 Buick dearlerships within a 30 mile radius.  I actually called GM in Mi. & got to talk to an engineer & was told how to identify the correct cam.  Who knows I could have been talking to Dennis Manner. I went to everyone of the dealers & put my order in for the, hopefully, the correct camshaft. The dealer would call & said the cam came in, but unfortunitely they were all the wrong for my engine & not what I whated. Carefully put it back in the box & sent it back.  After doing this a couple/few times some of them wouldn't do it any longer, BUT there were a few that were willing to help out a young gearhead.

Finally one called & said another cam came in & he thought it was the correct one I was looking for. Because I told them all what to look for & wrote it down so they would have a refernce to look at.  This took over a year. 

So I know by now that this is a boring, long post but we're coming close to the end.

So today the rebuilt engine has over 200K on it & is getting a little long in the tooth.  The best my 4200+ pound car with 3.90 rear end gearng has run a best of 13.902 ET @ 98 MPH & when it feels good with the proper air density, humidity, air pressue etc. & the stars line up in the proper order the car has pulled the left front tire off the ground.  I'm not talking a foot in the air, but maybe 2" which in my mind is pretty darn good. It pulled it to the point I had to take my  Riv. to my friends body shop & put it on the frame machine. I actually have pictures & videos to prove it. When you see the lights come down & the tire starts to move & then stop for a moment that's when the left front lost contact from the surface coming off the ground.

 

Now onto your bent??? axles IF my axles aren't bent with over 300K on them drag raceing with slicks for some 50+ years I say someone is trying to blow smoke up your you know what.

With bad vibrations when you apply the brakes & it feels like it's coming from the rear end see if the drums are not true. Remove them & have them re-surfaced IF they are oversize OK because your  just checking to see IF the vibration lessens. IF it does you now know where your problem lyes & you can then chose the proper course for which direction your going to take next.

Just my thoughs on the subject at hand.

 

Tom T.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by telriv (see edit history)

[Zack209]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:41 PM, RivNut said:

Ok so update on the rivi, I had the drums turned again and now the Shaking stoped a lot. The car brakes perfectly doesn’t have any stutters when I start braking. We took of the axels they were in great condition that Mechanic just didn’t know what it was, but now I have a over heating problem, we’re the overflow tank goes it has a hose that was just dangling it looks like it was touching the exhaust manifold and got chewed up n started steaming I was wondering if it connects to anything and if I do replace it do I need the same length that was on it.

[RivNut]

No overflow bottle on a 64. Just an overflow tube. If your system is operating correctly, you should not lose any water from the system.  I’m not sure put I think you should be running a 16# cap.  Lots of avenues to look at for overheating problems. Is this something brand new? What changes have been made recently to anything under the hood. Start with making sure your timing is set corrrectly. 

[Zack209]

[Zack209]

[Zack209]

The only thing i did motor wise was the carburetor.

[EmTee]

Is it really overheating, or just puking out the overflow because the radiator is over-full.  If you fill to the bottom of the cap opening it will spit coolant until the level in the tank when cold is about 1/2" below the opening.  There needs to be room for the coolant to expand when hot.

[RivNut]

You are not getting the fresh air you want in your carburetor. Take the lid off your air cleaner, remove the filter, the orient the snorkel so that it is positioned just to the left of the power steering pump. Look at the way the base sits on the carburetor. You will see where parts are cast on the air horn of the carb, and tabs are part of the hole in the base. When everything is aligned correctly, you cannot spin the base of the air cleaner on the carburetor.  

 

If I were you, I would remove that aftermarket add-on overflow set up and put an hose on the outlet from the neck on the radiator, then fill as EmTee states, then put a cap on the radiator that is NOT designed for a system with an overflow bottle. Hundreds of thousands of these cars ran fine when equipped the way they were designed, not cobbled up by some previous owner thinking that he was improving things by "modernizing."

 

Biggest reason that your car may be running hot! There is no shroud behind the radiator. A must have for a car with the a/c condenser in front of the radiator.  You have the correct upper mounting bracket and fan.  CARS www.oldbuickparts.com sells repo shrouds.  You should confirm that the thermal clutch between the fan and water pump is operating properly as well.  As the engine temperature gets to a certain point the fan clutch engages and the fan produces an audible roar. No roar, bad clutch.

 

If your carburetor is running too lean or your timing is not spot on, you will have overheating problems.  Hopefully you had an original carburetor professionally rebuilt and DID NOT install a small block Chevy calibrated Edlebrock AFB or AVS.  That will get you off to a bad start, both literally and figuratively.  

Edited August 8, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Zack209]

The carburetor that I put on was a evs2 edelbrock. So now the hose from the radiator to the thermostat just blew of it had a serve amount of pressure in the lines.  

[RivNut]

Water is pushed by the water pump from the bottom hose through the block and re-enters the radiator through the top hose.  If the thermostat is stuck shut, it’s usually the bottom hose that blows. But depending on the age of the hose, either one could blow.  To me it sounds like your radiator cannot handle the flow from the water pump so water is building up before it can exit the radiator.  Probably time to pull the radiator and take it to the radiator shop and have the tubes rodded out.  What led you buy that carb? Old rubber hoses should all probably be replaced.  One good thing from all this - you know that your heater core is good (if it hasn’t already been by-passed.)

[Zack209]

Ok so now ima pull the radiator and get the shroud for it to see if it’ll solve the problem. I recently changed most hoses on the car that looked cracked the thermostat and hose that goes to it to the radiator I changed just thought it was weired how it popped on me like that. The reason I did get the edelbrock manifolds was that it was hard for me to find the rebuild kit around my area, but this is also before I found out about this forum. I still have the original one. I just hated that when I would drive it will continuously bog out on me so the edelbrock worked for me never boged out but now I’m dealing with this over heating problem. If it’s not one thing it’s another. 

[jsgun]

What's the CFM of the carb? They seem to like 725 CFM and larger Under carbureted would make it run too lean.

[Zack209]

The avs2 is 650cfm on mine

[RivNut]

The factory AFB is rated at 625 CFM.  Contact Jon at The Carburetor Shop in Eldon, MO for a correct kit. He goes by @Carbking on this forum. 

[Zack209]

[Zack209]

Any idea we’re I can find a new muffler I tried the old Buick.com but nothing came up nor did eBay.

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, Zack209 said:

Any idea we’re I can find a new muffler I tried the old Buick.com but nothing came up nor did eBay.

Go to Waldrons website and you will find the original style muffler in steel and stainless in varying "tones"

Tom

[60FlatTop]

Your early comment about the body shaking on the frame could be more real than you think. Check the body mounts above the rear axle. They could be squashed down to a quarter of their original thickness or less. You have two more just behind the rear wheels that may not even be attached, and then small oval ones at the rear that hardly carry any load. The whole passenger compartment is suspended between the first ones I mentioned and the four at the base of the cowl, with the weight at the cowl carrying most of the load. That will affect the ride, handling, and braking feel.

 

Over the past 10 or 15 years I have become increasingly disappointed in what would best be called "shop fabricated" mufflers and pipes from various hobby vendors. I have good NOS or NORS "manufactured systems on my my two transverse muffler cars and intend repair anything that arises. There are inner pipes, sound deadener, and sheet metal parts readily available. I will do the rust repair and deadener stuffing I need rather than give up my ball and socket connections, full flared ends, correct gauge, and proper fit and sound. Don't throw that skeleton of a muffler out until you are sure you have what you want or rebuilt that one. I have thrown away more poorly fabricated exhaust parts or tossed them in the metal bin than I ever should have.

 

Like your bent axles, "Bless their little hearts. They are doing the best they can". But it ain't good enough. If the swap meets open up hit those dollar boxes and piles for all the shop manuals you can find. Read any of them. Even if you read specifics about anything the general way of doing everything will follow.

[jsgun]

On 8/12/2021 at 1:29 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Go to Waldrons website and you will find the original style muffler in steel and stainless in varying "tones"

Tom

Side question about Waldrons... Have you had good experiences with their mufflers?

 

I ask because years ago I bought a arvinode exhaust system for a mustang from them. The mufflers lasted about a year, and fell apart internally and started to rattle badly. Wasn't sure if I got a bad pair, or if that's part for the course there.

[1965rivgs]

9 hours ago, jsgun said:

Side question about Waldrons... Have you had good experiences with their mufflers?

 

I ask because years ago I bought a arvinode exhaust system for a mustang from them. The mufflers lasted about a year, and fell apart internally and started to rattle badly. Wasn't sure if I got a bad pair, or if that's part for the course there.

  The manufacturer was Arvin? Seems the manufacturer, and not the distributer, was the problem?

Tom