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Water Injection


bernardi
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Has anyone tried water injection (not vapor injection) on their Packards - V or straight 8's? The very simple units available in the 50's permitted use of the cheapest gasoline in "high compression" engines without knocking. It seems logical that we might be able to use them today with low octane fuel and get high octane results. Instead of retarding the spark to eliminate knock, inject water. Ebay seems to continually have some of the older units plus the new, expensive ones used on race engines. If anyone has experince with them, please share it.

Bernardi

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i've used it on motorcycles. Its not really an injection but more or less just a dribble in water arrangement. Mostly suitable for low compression engines that run excessively hot. The biggest problem with it is that it will rust the valve guides and or stems. If u decide to use it besure to shut it off well in advance of laying the car up for more than a day or two. Bottom line is i would avoid it unless u think u have excessive carbon build up.

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We're evidentally not talking about the same device. The vapor injectors bubble air through a container of water and increase the humidity, at least in theory. The water injectors I'm speaking of force water into the manifold after the carburator or throttle body in a mist. You can build a bubble device for $10 or less. An injector can run well over $300 (list).

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During my H-O Racing days, we used to install simple water injection systems on Pontiac TransAms that used our H-O TurboForce kit. The pump was electrically controlled by the throttle position and switched at full throttle. It allowed the waste gate to be set about 2lbs higher (+40hp) than without, so it definitely worked. But, remember that turbo boost significantly raises the inlet air temp which aggrevates the pre-detonation problem; the water injection cools the temp down somewhat.

On a normally aspirated engine, I think you might be better off with an chemical "octane booster" additive. Today's rule of thumb is any C.R. over 9.25:1 will require some octane help under high load conditions. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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WRT "octane boosters", I ran across an article in Feb/Mar 2002 Hemmings "Rods & Performance" mag which stated the following "independent research laboratory" results:

SoCal Chevron 92-octane base: 92.3 R+M/2

add "104 Octane Boost": 92.3 (no change)

add "NOS Street Formula": 92.6

add "NOS Racing Formula": 94.5

The latter is suitable for pre-1971 engines with C.R. 9.5:1-11:1.

The critical ingredient is apparently methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricabonal (MMT), so look for that additive.

BTW, the same article states that Red Line's "Lead Substitute" is an "outstanding solution" to the valve seat recession problem applicable to our Packards with stock exhaust valve seats. I've been emailed many times for a scan of the "valve recession chart" published in a long past issue of PAC's Cormorant magazine, so here it is for everyone's reference:

Valve Recession Chart

For reference, the wide horizontal gray line at 19lb/hp running from 60mph to 90mph is my 1955 Patrician. According to this chart, valve recession starts to become a problem at sustained speeds of 65mph. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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Many thanks for the input. I wanted information and opinions, and that's what I got. Some of the sites which spurred my interest follow. www.eng-tips.com www.website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/mannject.html www.noswizard.com/water.php www.dawesdevices.com/water.html The point has been made that rust may result with injudicious use. With water being supplied only under load, any moisture in the manifold would be sucked into the engine and exhausted before shut down. As water is one of the products of combustion, it is already in the cylinders and exhaust system. Anyway, it's food for thought. Thanks for the input. I'll post my results after running a few miles (in 6 or 8 months).

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