Ouch. London Sticks It To Classic Car Owners

[padgett]

Howsabout an L67 Riviera with ducktail ?

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, padgett said:

 

 

ps only the outer props were driven by the boilers. Also the Britannic (nee Gigantic) sank faster.

Nope, all driven by boiler steam, It doesn't matter if it goes first three times in a triple expansion piston engine and then to a low pressure turbine before it's condensed and goes back. It's all part of the loop.

 

Back to the subject. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Howsabout an L67 Riviera with ducktail ?

Yes very much. A Bill Porter car.

[padgett]

Well sorta, just ends were reciprocating and center was a forward-only steam turbine driven by the exhaust from the other two, not directly by the boilers.

[Pfeil]

3 minutes ago, padgett said:

Well sorta, just ends were reciprocating and center was a forward-only steam turbine driven by the exhaust from the other two, not directly by the boilers.

Again,

Nope, all driven by boiler steam, It doesn't matter if it goes first three times in a triple expansion piston engine and then to a low pressure turbine before it's condensed and goes back. It's all part of the loop.

 

Back to the subject. 

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, GregLaR said:

You are assuming way too much Frank.

Nowhere in my post did I say anything even close to that, but I can see you are offended by my view that one must provide more than a simple calendar date to qualify for "collector/historic" status.

I owned many current cars through the 1990's/2000's and they were mostly fine cars that served their purposes.  I also have a couple of early edition Charles Dickens books and a few issues of MAD Magazine.  Both are entertaining in their own right but the difference in their standing over time is a gaping void.

Then we are OK! We can disagree on the small stuff.👍

[Frank DuVal]

5 hours ago, padgett said:

Also the Britannic (nee Gigantic) sank faster.

A fan of the Big Broadcast of 1939? 🤣

[padgett]

It is to laugh: I mostly agreed with you and you quibbled with that ?

[Frank DuVal]

3 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Pfeil, thanks for the belly laugh!

I would be very interested to meet any  "younger person with an interest in a 2000 Buick".😄

Not yet, have to wait for 2025. So, back in 1980 you said the same thing about late 1970s cars, didn't you? "Who would want to collect a 1979 Cadillac Deville? All plastic and emissioned controlled."

Or you said it in the early 90s. "What young person would be caught dead in a 1987 Buick?"

Now look at the show field. Driver's participation field, of course.

 

One can also say that about brass cars. "What young person would be caught dead in a 1912 T?" Same silly arguments about cars and who likes them. If we all liked the same car, the show field would be really boring! Oh, look, another T-bird next to that row of Corvetts.😄

 

I'll go with variety is the spice of life. Corvairs, Chevetts, Grahams, Packards, Buicks, Willys Knights, etc etc.

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Pfeil, thanks for the belly laugh!

I would be very interested to meet any  "younger person with an interest in a 2000 Buick".😄

When you meet one I hope you respect their choice.

[1912Staver]

I recently had to deal with a 1998 Buick LeSabre. Reasonably low miles, nice clean condition. Electronic problem effecting drivability .   Best offer was $350.00 from a scrapper. 

[padgett]

 I was playing games on a computer in 1957. Just a matter of having the right tools. '98 LeSabre is OBD-II and with a Tech 2 would tell you everything.

[Guest]

Check out this classic! 

I owned this very car back in 2001 and kept it for 3 years. Yes, a true antique  (according to the calendar). 😄

You guys are right.  I don't know why I was so blind.  If only I'd had the vision then to keep it until it earned its true vintage status today.  I'd probably be getting a big thumbs up at every intersection from other drivers and an invitation to Hershey.  Valets would certainly know to park it among the Rolls Royces and Ferraris at all the finer restaurants. And I just know the '36-'38 Buick guys would beg me to park it next to them at every car show.

Missed opportunities... darn.

[Matt Harwood]

Greg is only saying out loud what almost all of us have thought at one time or another. He's not wrong.

 

Simply existing long enough does not a collector car make. There are plenty of guys who are quick to make accusations of elitism when people express such opinions, but if they're all special then none of them are special. And for purposes of taxes, licensing, and other perks, those of us who use our collector cars should demand some push-back against the guys putting antique plates on their beaters which--through no other miracle beyond not getting scrapped--qualify under the law.

If the law starts cleaning house when it comes to old cars, and we don't tell them that some are more special than others and provide them with a definition, then the cleaning will take out the good with the bad, indiscriminately. If we don't draw the line, it will be drawn for us.

 

If you love your Model A Ford or 1961 Corvette or 1948 Buick, then hell yes you should be concerned that a 1996 Chevy S10 with rust holes in the rockers is wearing antique plates, and it isn't because you're a snob.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Around here there are two types of " special status " for older cars, in a way 3 because of recent changes . The first is very straightforward, " Vintage " plates. At least 30 years old, close to stock as possible , although there are Model T and similar speedsters running around on Vintage plates.  Submit a couple of photo's and most of the time you are in. Very cheap compared to normal plates / insurance, BUT very restricted use. Generally just to and from shows, club events and similar. 

 Second is " Collector " 25 years at least or 15 years old and very limited production , less than 1500 of that make and model. Or a MAKE { not model } that is extinct for at least 5 years.  Fairly stringent rules regarding condition. Comprehensive set of photo's required. Owner must have another car that is a regular plated and insured daily driver.

 Not nearly a cheap as Vintage , but still quite a bit cheaper than a regular car.   NO driving to work, pleasure driving only, but otherwise you can use it as much as you want.

 Recently there has been added a " Modified Collector " plate for all the street rod crowd. Very popular as there are a ton of them around. Similar restrictions to regular Collector plate as far as no driving to work are concerned.

[Pfeil]

I agree that people using antique, collector or historical plates on a car that is a daily driver are abusing what those plates and the perks that go along with them is wrong.

 

 

 

Now consider this.

It's 1960 and the driver of this 32 Buick says " Oh gee, I wish that guy in that 1936 special would park next to me.

 

 

[John348]

From what I interpreted from the article is that in certain parts of the city of London, during certain times of the day (presuming rush hour) vehicles made after a certain year are not permitted during those times. 

Having grown up, lived worked and commuted to NYC for most of my life I don't think anyone is driving a 'true' collector/antique/ vehicle in that type of traffic at the times specified and locations given. Anyone who has dealt with daily commuting in the very large cities understand it can take an hour to go 2 miles. Idling in bumper to bumper traffic. I remember the seeing the soot on the walls of the Queens Mid-town Tunnel in the 1990's, now they look pretty clean. I don't think they clean them any more often either.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Well, Greg, now your insults are now MEDDLING!🤬

 

I AM a guy who likes the Park Avenues (your picture looks like a LeSabre, short trunk). I own 3. I kept the 1995 Ultra to be an AACA car.  The 1998 (not Ultra) I drove everyday to 265k Miles. No, it is not a collector car, just confortable dependable transportation with about 50% of the white paint left on it. Sheds like a snake.....   So you can hold it up as an example of what one does not want to see running around with antique tags. But, NO RUST, unusual for a Virginia car.. So, if I gave it to a young person who shows interest in fixing it up, why shouldn't it be running antique tags in two years while they are working on it?  

 

Current everyday driver is a 2005 Ultra. It has Connecticut tin worm already working on it, so I doubt it will be around as AACA material in 2030. Oh, I'll probably still be driving it!  But since I will not be working then, I could run antique plates on it and be following the law. Just like the Model Ts looked back in the 60s. 🤣 Not everyoone can afford to spend big bucks to get into the hobby with a great looking car. 

 

Now, yes, there are issues with people purposefully using antique tags NOT following the law. Like antique tags on a pick up full of firewood for sale. They should be prosecuted. But form a branch of governement to determine if a particular car is worthy of antique tags? No way is that a good idea!😲 Stick with a date (non-subjective) and let the authorities see if one is driving to work everyday. Then of course, what of your job is restoring cars and you are driving a project to work everyday to work on it? 🤔 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Well, Greg, now your insults are now MEDDLING!🤬

 

I AM a guy who likes the Park Avenues (your picture looks like a LeSabre, short trunk).

Frank,

                    Don't take yourself (or me) so seriously.  I can enjoy a good debate without becoming angry or engaging in personal expressions.  We are clearly in different camps on this one. 

Yes, I owned a 2001 LeSabre and it was great for what it was at that time.   But the thought of keeping it an additional 17 years with the idea of posting antique tags on it is just laughable to me.  In fact I'd feel pretty foolish if I did put antique plates on a car from the 2000's and then pulled up along side a car from the 1930's. 

You also post the second reference on this thread to a "young person showing interest in a 20 year old Buick" which I feel is pretty erroneous.  Again, I'll say I'd be very interested to meet any young person with an iota of interest in a 20 year old American sedan.  Their taste in collector cars switched a long time ago to the Asian built offerings. 

I think Harwood phrased it perfectly here:  "....if they're all special then none of them are special."

To me, this parallels the participation ribbons for every child who competes so some don't feel left out.  Would anyone really be proud of bringing home a 14th place trophy?  Ugh!

It took me a while to get a real grasp on why some cars earned the coveted "full classic" status, while others that looked equally fine to me did not.  I asked, I listened and I finally understood how much I did not know and why others had made the decisions as to what criteria made that designation correct.   Now I get it and I respect their parameters.

I would welcome and support a body or group that could finally determine a true set of factors and dates that would determine what should really be considered an antique or historic or collector valued car.  I will never agree that the only factor needed is to wait out the calendar in order to qualify.

As I said in an earlier post, the only ones advocating for cars of from the 90's and 2000's to be considered as having historic, antique or collector status are owners of cars from the 90's and 2000's.

Cheers my friend,

                                              Greg

 

[Frank DuVal]

22 hours ago, GregLaR said:

As I said in an earlier post, the only ones advocating for cars of from the 90's and 2000's to be considered as having historic, antique or collector status are owners of cars from the 90's and 2000's.

Isn't this obvious? Why would a person who is not interested in cars from the 90s even think about them?🤔

 

And BTW, they are antique tags in this state, nothing about full classic status. Not event a plate that says "Historic". You are confusing what some clubs require for membership, I'm discussing regular people on the street and what they like to drive. Personally I think Corvettes are lousy cars, why would anyone want to collect them? I'be worked on and modified lots of them. Cramped, hot, no clear vision. But, of course, I only worked on pre- 1984 models. I hear they may have improved. 🤣 Should I request no pre-1984 Corvettes not be allowed to wear antique tags just because of the way I think?

 

Just think, in 4 years a 2000 Corvette or a Honda Civic can both wear antique plates in this state. No snobbery allowed here.😄 

 

23 hours ago, GregLaR said:

I would welcome and support a body or group that could finally determine a true set of factors and dates that would determine what should really be considered an antique or historic or collector valued car.  I will never agree that the only factor needed is to wait out the calendar in order to qualify.

No, never. Sure for a exclusive club, but for the general public? No. When Model Ts were 15 years old, who wanted one?  $5 cars back then. Sure no committee would think them worthy of antique plates when the clock turned to 25 years old. Now look. I see this now with cars of the late 70s. In the mid 80s antique car people joked about how no one would collect late 70s cars. Plastic, smog equipment bound, no horsepower. Now, you see them on the show field all the time. Time is what matters. That 2001 LeSabre was the same everyday driver as a 1959 LeSabre was in 1966. Just a used car. Now look at them in shows. I guess those 1959 LeSabres don't deserve antique plates just because they are over 25 years old, since they were just transportation when new. ????  Wait until 2035, and see what is on the show field. And, on tours! 👍

 

I'm all in for not abusing the antique plates. Having a year is the only way to make it equitable for all residents of a state. But, the vehicle has to follow the rules of that state to get and keep the antique plate. Use it to sell firewood or drive to work everyday is not following the rules. Period.

[Guest]

Frank, you're wrong about Corvettes.  There is nothing wrong with the car.  The real problem is the people who own them.

 

As far as a governing body to make these decisions for us?  Yes, I'm all for it. 

C'mon man, they're the government, they know what they're doing.  You can trust them.

[Pilgrim65]

Interesting good banter , as I split my year between Uk and Cyprus I have 2 daily drivers and when I bought them, both at a very good price , I thought they both had chance of becoming modern ‘classic’ collectables in a few years time . I  would welcome opinions, I love the jag and will keep . Bought merc because you need ac out here and my classic stag has none , but may trade for a 80s SL if one comes up 

Cyprus car 1991 merc 190e 2.6 with Cosworth  body kit 

uk 2007 jag xkr convertible 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)