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One for the Ford AA experts


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This one is from a New Zealand facebook page. The well drilling rig is mounted on an early Ford AA chassis.

 

The 1928-29 NZ registration plate tells us the truck is near brand new.

 

Is that standard Ford dual rear wheel set up - or is it aftermarket?

 

In that era all of the Fords for NZ were sourced from Canada.

 

 

Akl NZ Ford AA.jpg

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Those wheels are not AA Ford. Early 1928 AA's had heavy duty versions of the A spoked metal wheels, and later AAs had the slotted steel wheels that Ford used thru the 1930's all the way up until this day.

 

Those are definitely aftermarket wheels or something that were borrowed and adapted from another manufacturers vehicle.

 

And then theres that cab...

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Probably a Canadian Ford " Brantford " truck. I have a pair of the fronts, but no rears. I have only seen a couple of them and they were both single rear wheel trucks with wood spoke wheels very similar to the fronts like in this photo. But I expect there was also a dual rear option.  

They { Brantford's } seem to be reasonably rare even here in Western  Canada.  They may be more common in Eastern Canada.

I have no idea of why Ford used different wheels from 99% of the rest of the AA' s built.

But not aftermarket, the front wood spoke wheels at least . Just an oddball Canadian version.ml03-Everett-Hessels-q8.jpg

 

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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16 minutes ago, dustycrusty said:

And it says right in the title:

 

               "...for the Ford  AA  experts."     Well, I've decisively  shown that I am not in that league!

Not to worry Dusty, Had me puzzling, kicking, and cussin for a bit also. First 3 months of production here in the USA had 20" wire spoke wheels on the AA's. Dandy Dave!   

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)
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I have had a couple of basket case Brantford's cross my path over the years. But I passed on both of them. The first had the cab but was missing the rear end, and a few years later a complete rolling chassis but no cab.  Between them a person could have built a nice truck. But at the time I found the first one I figured the correct rear end would be nearly impossible to find.  It is a regular ring and pinion rear end and completely different than either of the two  " normal " Ford AA rear ends.  Unfortunately the one with the cab was eventually scrapped. 

 At least one very nicely restored Brantford in my area , but still quite a rare bird even here in Canada.

Dandy Dave, I really like the AA Express with the early wire wheels. Yet another AA you don't see very often. 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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The comments about wood wheels reminded me of this one. A photo taken at a local 'first Sunday of every month' get together which usually draws more than 500 cars - mostly post WW2 Americans - as can be seen in the background of the photo.

 

I know the driver but I don't know who actually owns the truck - I will ask him.  I know on both his parents' sides he comes from 'old car' people  - he has both of the cars his maternal grandfather bought new, a 1960 Canadian sourced NZ assembled Fairlane 500 sedan with 332 and three on the tree (he showed me the right hand drive gear shift linkages one day - seems they were designed in NZ), along with his grandad's next car a '65 Ford Country Sedan, apparently the last Canadian Ford wagon sold new in NZ.

 

As a side note, in the 1950s and '60s, due to the low numbers involved, all of the 'American' cars that came to NZ new were four door sedans. I think there was a limited amount of colour choice but I suspect in some cases you got whatever the dealer was allocated. The '60 Fairlane was rebuilt some years ago and the 332 became a 390. In the wagon photo the '59 Olds belongs to his cousin.

 

I know that members of the McVicar family were also car nuts - mostly into Fords. 

 

 

29 LD7138 Ford A ccap fb 0420.jpg

60 FORD6O NZ Fairlane 500 Dean Inwood hrb Chch 0820 ccap.jpg

65 DU115 Galaxie VCC C&C 0620.JPG

7 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I have had a couple of basket case Brantford's cross my path over the years. But I passed on both of them. The first had the cab but was missing the rear end, and a few years later a complete rolling chassis but no cab.  Between them a person could have built a nice truck. But at the time I found the first one I figured the correct rear end would be nearly impossible to find.  It is a regular ring and pinion rear end and completely different than either of the two  " normal " Ford AA rear ends.  Unfortunately the one with the cab was eventually scrapped. 

 At least one very nicely restored Brantford in my area , but still quite a rare bird even here in Canada.

Dandy Dave, I really like the AA Express with the early wire wheels. Yet another AA you don't see very often. 

 

Someone else I know locally, another Ford nut - he has several As - as well as being into Morris Minors - spent many years restoring a Ford AA. I recall it had an 'rare' Timken rear end in it. I don't have a photo of the finished article - I must try and get one. I can't recall what wheels are on that one but I suspect they are the later style slotted steel type.

Just found something interesting while going through my photos - this one taken at a meet in Reefton. just west of the Main Divide.

 

Those rear wheels look kind of familiar.  Not sure about the fronts though.

 

Is that the later style radiator? - hard to say.

 

'Outhouse' style cab?

 

Btw the all of the photos I have posted on the page were taken in the last twelve months. The wagon photo is mine. The others were posted on facebook pages by people generous in sharing photos. 

 

 

 

 

AA at Reefton 0720 Kerry Wildermoth photo.jpg

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The McVicker timber truck. The dual wheel truck is pretty nice as well, although the cab looks a bit too home made . The duals look to be the same as the first black and white photo. And a different type of front wheels yet again. Lots of variety on these Canadian and export market trucks.

My  1929 Canadian AA just has the regular AA  disc wheels , duals so the offset style. It's a Canadian built C cab , but built by a commercial body builder here in Vancouver. Unrestored , barn find. I bought it about 20 years ago and really have not done much with it . Complete , although the cab wood is getting rotten in spots. It was parked in the barn / shed where I found it sometime in the late 1950's. According to the grandson of the person who parked it still drivable but tired engine. About all I have done for it is buy a factory Ford flat deck to replace the rotten . home made deck that was on it when I first got it. Legend has it that it was a Coke truck when new and the beverage deck went on to a newer chassis when the local Coke distributor retired it.

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Wondering if it had something to do with import export? Fordson Major Diesel tractors made in England in the 1950's though the mid 1960's had cast iron front wheels. The ones shipped here to the USA had pressed steel front wheels. I read somewhere that was to reduce shipping weight. I have a 1960 Fordson Power Major with the pressed front wheels, power steering, live PTO and remote Hydraulics not always seen in England. 

Wondering if shipping "parts" was cheaper than shipping whole vehicles, and sourcing some parts at the intended destination was more economical as the case in these Brantford Model AA's. I find the history interesting. Dandy Dave!  

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10 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

Wondering if it had something to do with import export? Fordson Major Diesel tractors made in England in the 1950's though the mid 1960's had cast iron front wheels. The ones shipped here to the USA had pressed steel front wheels. I read somewhere that was to reduce shipping weight. I have a 1960 Fordson Power Major with the pressed front wheels, power steering, live PTO and remote Hydraulics not always seen in England. 

Wondering if shipping "parts" was cheaper than shipping whole vehicles, and sourcing some parts at the intended destination was more economical as the case in these Brantford Model AA's. I find the history interesting. Dandy Dave!  

I know  that early on, Land Rover of England shipped a lot of vehicles as "CKD" (Completely Knocked Down) kits to Australia and South Africa. Those unassembled vehicles contained most of the major components, but always got a few locally sourced parts added to the mix at their final destination. Shipping them stripped down saved weight and made them easier to stack in the hold, so you could ship more for less. You can be sure the bean-counters working under ol' Henry's watch pioneered and refined such methods!

 

I had a couple of roundabout (Ireland to Canada to the U.S.) imported Fordson "N"s with those cast front wheels. They both had bad front bearings because I guess nobody could -or wanted to- lift those way-too-heavy, densely cast wheels off the spindles to periodically clean and grease them! 

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I wonder what percentage of Brantford's ended up in export markets ? As I have mentioned, the standard { the same as U.S. } AA's are what I find here in Canada 99% of the time. 

 I have not done any research on Brantford's but I am sure someone has. Do "regular" AA's also turn up in NZ and Australia ? 

 

The wheel set up on the Riley View truck makes sense from the point of view of spare tire's . I expect the front and rear cast hubs both use the same rim.

The well drilling truck would need a spare to fit the rear hub and a second, different spare to fit the front wood spoke wheel.

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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On 5/6/2021 at 12:56 AM, dustycrusty said:

I know  that early on, Land Rover of England shipped a lot of vehicles as "CKD" (Completely Knocked Down) kits to Australia and South Africa. Those unassembled vehicles contained most of the major components, but always got a few locally sourced parts added to the mix at their final destination. Shipping them stripped down saved weight and made them easier to stack in the hold, so you could ship more for less. You can be sure the bean-counters working under ol' Henry's watch pioneered and refined such methods!

 

I had a couple of roundabout (Ireland to Canada to the U.S.) imported Fordson "N"s with those cast front wheels. They both had bad front bearings because I guess nobody could -or wanted to- lift those way-too-heavy, densely cast wheels off the spindles to periodically clean and grease them! 

 

There are different versions of 'completely knocked down'.

 

The case where one car was put into a crate mostly assembled but with its wheel removed and top separate to limit the height was really an SUP, a single unit pack. In the 1920s and '30s cars of a body style that was not locally assembled - typically coupes and roadsters imported in small numbers - came SUP. I have some figures for Pontiacs and Buicks showing CKD and SUP variants. For models that were locally assembled there was always at least one imported SUP, presumably so that the workers could see what the finished product would look like.

 

I have seen photos taken at the local assembly plants back in the 1930s where there were crates of parts - eg a crate of roofs and a crate of body quarters etc etc and then the body parts would be welded together to create a body and then added to the chassis, which probably arrived mostly complete, but needed the mechanical parts put in.

 

In the 1950s and '60s, because of the relatively small numbers involved the 'American' cars - Canadian sourced Ford, Chevrolets, Pontiacs and various Mopars mostly arrived 'semi knocked down'. The bodies were already painted and trimmed and all the assembler did was bolt the mechanicals to the chassis, drop the body on the chassis, add the few local components, battery and tyres for example and hey presto a car. In that era a heater and radio were usually dealer fitted options, and a car fitted with them was regarded as having 'all the options'. The cars were all relatively basic models. Availability of cars in the post WW2 era was very sporadic and depended on the country's export receipts, and its dollar reserves. In 1952 there was a great demand for wool for the Korean war so NZ did well out if that and quite a lot of cars were allowed to be imported. In contrast 1953 saw a much reduced quantity. It wasn't until the late 1980s that cars were readily available in the quantities the market desired. 

 

As far as Fords were concerned, being much more simple cars,  local assembly of Model Ts from packs of parts began quite early - I will have to look that one up. Plants were even set up in smaller towns. As the cars became more sophisticated assembly became limited to larger centres. All this the meant there were detail differences between cars from different plants.

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:52 AM, 1912Staver said:

I wonder what percentage of Brantford's ended up in export markets ? As I have mentioned, the standard { the same as U.S. } AA's are what I find here in Canada 99% of the time. 

 I have not done any research on Brantford's but I am sure someone has. Do "regular" AA's also turn up in NZ and Australia ? 

I also have a AA truck, a 1930 that has been local to Woodstock, Ontario (30 miles from Brantford) for at least 60 years and we believe may have originally been owned by a local lumber/coal yard when new.  This is a Canadian built truck and from the bit of research that I have done it appears, and I stand to be corrected, that AA's in Canada were built as cowl and chassis units and shipped to body builders.  We are fairly certain that ours likely is a Brantford Coach built body, though there are no tags anywhere to confirm this but at least the Robertson screws confirm the body was Canadian built as well.  Here's a link to a bit of the Brantford history:

 

https://canadianindustrialheritage.com/index.php/collection/contributed-articles/44-the-products-of-greenwich-mohawk-bc-b

 

The Products of Greenwich-Mohawk: Brantford Coach and Body Ltd.

Progress in Payloads

To celebrate the exploits of the companies that were once located on the Greenwich-Mohawk brownfield site in Brantford, a seve-part series will briefly introduce each of these industries, thier products and thier lasting impact on Canada and the world market. This third installment will examine the final transition from a carriage and wagon based transportation industry to that of the automotive era.

In the early 20th century the demands of industry and the growth of cities required the conversion of transportation to a form that could only be supplied by trucks and automobiles. Up to this point transport needs were furnished by numerous independant small carriage/wagon manufacturers and blacksmiths. All of this changed with the new realities of the internal combustion engine. In response to this, a carriage manufacturer had three options; a) change the product line to adapt, b) merge with, or buy out other firms or, c) go out of business. Picture a funnel, with a multitude of small manufacturers feeding their product into the market place. As time progresses and demands change, the number of companies is steadily reduced to the point that a strong leader emerges out the narrow end. Such was the case with Brantford Coach and Body Ltd.(BC&B).

Prior to the formation of BC&B in 1938 its predecessor, Canada Carriage and Body Co. Formed in 1924, was the result of several years of mergers of theCanadaCarriageCo
main carriage and wagon manufacturers in Canada, and was now controlled by the Cockshutt Plow Co. The Brantford Expositor Semi-Centennial Edition of 1927 describes the Canada Carriage and Body Co. As, “... the largest manufacturer of truck bodies in the Dominion.” This was an incredible feat considering the fact that the major automotive manufacturers of the early 20th century, Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge, made only the truck chassis; the body of the vehicle was supplied under contract with another company.

During the 1930's the product line was regularily expanded to include busses, dump trucks and hoists, station wagon bodies, camping trailers, and hearses.
The Second World War had the factory at 22 Mohawk St. (formerly the Adams Wagon Co., which was merged into the Canada Carriage and Body Co. In 1929) turning out special vehicle bodies for the Army.

With the end of the war, business once again focused on non-military needs. With the emphasis noe being housing and roads (and the means of shipping goods along those roads) production mainly was that of dump truck bodies and semi-trailers, and Brantford Coach and Body was the leader in Canada in the production of these.

By 1959 a new factory was constructed in Cainsville, on the outskirts of Brantford, as part of a 10 year expansion program. As an end result of the takeover of Cockshutt in 1958, BC&B was sold to Novo Industrial Corp. and the name was changed to Brantford Trailer and Body Ltd. The next 30 years would witness further acquisitions and name changes between the Trailmobile and Fruehauf companies. The end came in 1990 with the closure of the Cainsville plant and production being carried out from facilities in the U.S. In reflection Brantford had, without a doubt, left its mark on the transportation industry in Canada.

Author, Rob Adlam

 

 

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My body tag is missing but you can see where it was attached to the wood just above the windshield frame. I have been told the construction of the cab is very similar to a truck that was known to be made by a local Vancouver Co. A very basic C cab , without doors. Just what you would expect for a city delivery truck here in the relatively mild Vancouver climate. It almost looks like something that would be more from the Model TT era , but slightly different to suit the lines of the AA cowl.  I suspect most of the trucks sold here as chassis and cowl were outfitted by a local Western body builder . There were a number of them in business in the Vancouver area . 

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