Best Value in a Roadster

[jrbartlett]

Alsancle is correct on that Hudson being a good value in comparison. It just depends on which make car you like and how much you want to spend. 

 

As for colors, my 640 is too wild for most old car guys (me too at times), but I consider the pattern perfect -- same color on top and bottom, contrasting color on the body side panel, emphasizing the length of the car and lowness of the beltline. I would not chrome or paint the hood vents differently from the panel color, although some do. The red wheels bother me, and I've considered chroming them and going with blackwalls.

Edited May 18, 2021 by jrbartlett (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Sold for 160k plus vig.  I was pretty safe bidding around low estimate.

[John Bloom]

A nice looking roadster sold yesterday. Not sure if the guys there saw this one. If so, I wonder what they thought of the hammer price. 
 

the color scheme doesn’t wow me, but it doesn’t turn me off either. 

[alsancle]

I did not see it.  Wonder where it was hiding?

[John Bloom]

On 5/22/2021 at 7:24 AM, alsancle said:

I did not see it.  Wonder where it was hiding?

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/208/
 

this link seems to work. 
 

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, John Bloom said:

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/208/
 

this link seems to work. 
 

 

sorry.  I meant at the auction.

[alsancle]

Dragone's just listed this for $95,000

 

https://dragoneclassic.com/currentofferings/1929-packard-640-custom-eight-roadster/

 

929 was a big year for Packard and would be one of its best years ever. The Six cylinder cars were discontinued and replaced with the small standard eight engined cars and the large super eight cars, the 640 and 645 models, would become some of the greatest and one of the most iconic model years for Packard and for the entire classic era. The custom eight was available in both the 640 (140 inch wheelbase) and the 645 (145 inch wheelbase) and were both a completely new design for Packard taking the place of the 1928 4th series cars. Available in a range of multiple body styles, both closed and open, the roadster was of course the most sporty and best looking on both chassis. In a way, the 640 roadster was actually better looking than the 645 as the body is completely different between the two. While the 645 cars are on a longer wheelbase, the length is all in the rear of the body unlike the 7th series cars in the following year and the 640 roadster body is lower giving it a much sportier look. 

 

Offered here is a very original 1929 Packard 640 Roadster that has been owned by the same family for 65 years and has travelled just shy of 50,000 miles since it was new. A very good looking example with its rear mounted spare wheel and 5 wire wheels giving it a long low look that a car with side mounts just cannot match. Today wearing a charming older restoration in two tone blue with cream accents, this 640 is really wonderful. Mechanically it runs and drives very well and is ready to be driven, shown and enjoyed. Asking $95,000. Contact us today for more information!

 

  

[Matt Harwood]

You'd think Dragone would know the difference between "very original" and "older restoration."

[Ken_P]

Maybe, and it's out of my current budget, but... man is that a sexy car! I love it. Especially like the contrasting body colors with the lighter wheels, and the blackwalls. Painted spokes vs. chrome on a car of this caliber are just amazing.

I'm really falling in love with this era of Packard (29-32) in particular, and classics in general. My first full classic won't have skirted fenders! Great car; I could look at it all day.

[Cadillac Fan]

Re the Dragone 1929 Packard roadster.  Love the rear mounted spare.  
 

maybe “very original” is implying that it was not made from a sedan.  

Edited June 2, 2021 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, Ken_P said:

Maybe, and it's out of my current budget, but... man is that a sexy car! I love it. Especially like the contrasting body colors with the lighter wheels, and the blackwalls. Painted spokes vs. chrome on a car of this caliber are just amazing.

I'm really falling in love with this era of Packard (29-32) in particular, and classics in general. My first full classic won't have skirted fenders! Great car; I could look at it all day.

 

I'm trying to think of a car where the skirted fenders looked better than the open ones and I'm failing.

 

The 32 Packard is the quintessential "Classic" era car.   The last Packard  with open fenders but also mechanically upgraded from 31.

 

I like all the 6,7,8,9 series cars (29-32).   

[Ken_P]

Looking at the pictures of the 29 more. I see it has cowl lights. I believe those were optional in 29, right? How easy is it to remove them and have the car look right? Is there a different trim strip for the cowl, or some sort of cover in lieu of cowl lights?

Take the driving lights and cowl lights off, and she's pretty much perfect to my eye.

[jcrow]

No all 29's had the cowl lights. In 30 they were moved to the fenders.

Earl C Anthony had Packard permission to dress up 1929's in 30 and

31 by eliminating the cowl lights, placing new ones on the front fenders

and updating the headlights and stone guard.

[Restorer32]

Very few Packard Roadsters pre '32 were converted from Coupes or Sedans.  !932-1934 Packards are a different story.  Many, many were converted from Coupes, especially the Light 8 Models and the '34 soft top Coupes. 

[jrbartlett]

I've been in the hobby starting from 1960, and in all those years I never heard of any '29/'30 Packard roadsters made up from other body styles. I don't think the value of these particular-year cars was ever high enough to justify the effort. Plus there were a number of the originals around. Admittedly, I was in Texas, and the majority of these cars seemed to be in the Northeast, so maybe I'm just out of the loop.  

[trimacar]

I was living in Alexandria, Louisiana.  My hometown.  Late 1970s, heard of a Packard roadster or convertible coupe for sale, 1930/31.  Cheap.  Went to look, and jagged edges of being cut from a coupe very evident.  Ever since then, paying premium for an open car, I’ve been very careful...and there are a LOT of cut down cars out there even now...even if one believes not...

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I was living in Alexandria, Louisiana.  My hometown.  Late 1970s, heard of a Packard roadster or convertible coupe for sale, 1930/31.  Cheap.  Went to look, and jagged edges of being cut from a coupe very evident.  Ever since then, paying premium for an open car, I’ve been very careful...and there are a LOT of cut down cars out there even now...even if one believes not...

 

Wanna take a guess?   I'm thinking 50% of all Packard Convertible coupes or roadsters started life as coupes.   And 50% of all 12 cylinder open cars started life as eights.

[jcrow]

Some of the 645 (1929) and 745 (1930) and 845 (1931) roadsters had body switches

with the smaller series roadster body placed on the longer chassis. Very very hard to

detect and these larger series cars in roadster form bring very high prices. Very similar

to the placing of v-8 Cad bodies on the 30/31 v-16 chassis.

 

Johnny

[Restorer32]

There is another perspective to consider.  Many years ago I bought the body shell of a 1932 Packard Coupe or Coupe Roadster. Totally stripped down with only some of the wood remaining.  Now, there is absolutely no way to tell if this body was originally a convertible or a coupe.  Likewise there is no way of knowing if it is from 1932, '33 or '34.  Packard used the same sheet metal '32-'34.  The sheet metal comes in two sizes.  A larger body for the Standard 8's, Super 8's and 12's and a slightly smaller version for the '32 900 and the '33 1001. If someone decides to use my body to restore a Packard should they restore it as a Coupe or as a Coupe Roadster?  Surely no one will suggest it should be scrapped?

[alsancle]

Although technically a “speedster” this is your roadster if money was no object.

[alsancle]

Discussed previously.  Very decent driver level car.

[Cadillac Fan]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:01 PM, alsancle said:

Discussed previously.  Very decent driver level car.

Seems like a very fair price.  Is there a better open ccca classic for under $100k ?   
 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Seems like a very fair price.  Is there a better open ccca classic for under $100k ?  

 

As far as open fender cars go it seems like a decent deal.   But a dealer has it for sale who knows what he is doing, so I would say that must be full retail.

 

 

 

[John Bloom]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:00 PM, alsancle said:

Although technically a “speedster” this is your roadster if money was no object.

I think this is a good example of the saying......"checks every box".   

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

I think this is a good example of the saying......"checks every box".   

 

My dad's Auburn Speedster was that color and I did not like it.  But this car is so overwhelmingly cool that having just the body in that color works ok for me.

Edited June 8, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

 

My dad's Auburn Speedster was that color and I did not like it.  But this car is so overwhelmingly cool that having just the body in that color works ok for me.

When I first looked at it, I didn't dig the color.  After looking at it again five minutes later, the color was growing on me.  Color choices can fall into a few categories......

-Love it, the perfect color, can't imagine it any other way.....

-Looks nice, wouldn't change it.....

-It's ok, but if I repaint it, I'll change the color.

-I'd buy that car if it wasn't that color.

-what were they thinking...?

 

of course all the above comments are influenced by the cost of a bare metal full respray of a big classic.......get a quote......you might find you like the current color more than you thought you did.........

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

of course all the above comments are influenced by the cost of a bare metal full respray of a big classic.......get a quote......you might find you like the current color more than you thought you did.........

 

I will never paint a car again.   Figure 100k to do a high level paint job on a full Classic.   And if that sounds insane,  you are talking at least 15k in materials before you start.

[John Bloom]

OK guys, had a good time reading over this thread this morning with coffee and thought that I'd move forward with the Cadillac offerings in Roadster models.......

 

For 1926-1927  no Roadster was offered in the standard series, but the Custom 314 came with Cadillac's 314 V8 on a 138 inch wheelbase.  Mechanical brakes.

 

1928 had the 341A with 341 V8 140 inch wheelbase mechanical brakes.

1929 had the 341B with 341 V8 140 inch wheelbase mechanical brakes.

 

1930 had the 353 V8 on 140 inch wheelbase and the enormous 452 V16 on 148 inch wheelbase.

 

1931 had series 355 V8 on 134 inch wheelbase, the series 370 V12 on 140 in wheelbase, and series 452 V16 on 148 inch wheelbase.  

 

I know I said "Value Roadster".....and threw out the figure 100K as a ceiling.  Clearly some of Cadillac's offerrings will not be able to fit into that price point.  That is ok, besides being educational to me, the point of this is also to enjoy and hear what others with opinions and experience in these cars think about what was offered and available today.  

 

What do you guys have to say about the Roadsters Cadillac offered in that 1926-1931 era?

 

 

[Cadillac Fan]

Three distinct series, with the last one also have three distinct cars with in it .

 

26-27 are still pretty “boxy” and are pre Harley Earl’s design touches.   These lack the style of the later years and are not what I think of when you hear the term ccca roadster.  
 

28-29: look the part of a ccca classic roadster.  
 

v16 roaster:  probably the highest value production Cadillac.  Imposing.  You have definitely arrived.  For the elite in 1930 and for the elite in 2021. 
 

v12 roadster: 75 percent of the wow factor of the v16 roadster for 25-30 percent of the price.   Some say underpowered.  
 

v8 roadster: about half of a v12 roadster.  Looks the part. Terrible carburetor.  
 

All of these are pretty tough to maintain without an open checkbook or learned mechanics.  

My guess is that you could only get a 26-27 for under $100k.  (Talking a solid car professionally restored in the last 25 years, ie 90-94 point car). 

 

You may want to look at LaSalles next, which were Cadillacs companion car, and originally priced below the Cadillac V8s. 

 

[John Bloom]

13 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Three distinct series, with the last one also have three distinct cars with in it .

 

26-27 are still pretty “boxy” and are pre Harley Earl’s design touches.   These lack the style of the later years and are not what I think of when you hear the term ccca roadster.  
 

28-29: look the part of a ccca classic roadster.  
 

v16 roaster:  probably the highest value production Cadillac.  Imposing.  You have definitely arrived.  For the elite in 1930 and for the elite in 2021. 
 

v12 roadster: 75 percent of the wow factor of the v16 roadster for 25-30 percent of the price.   Some say underpowered.  
 

v8 roadster: about half of a v12 roadster.  Looks the part. Terrible carburetor.  
 

All of these are pretty tough to maintain without an open checkbook or learned mechanics.  

My guess is that you could only get a 26-27 for under $100k.  (Talking a solid car professionally restored in the last 25 years, ie 90-94 point car). 

 

You may want to look at LaSalles next, which were Cadillacs companion car, and originally priced below the Cadillac V8s. 

 

Great feedback and I appreciate your comments on looks, prestige, price point, and mechanical reputation. 
 

l agree with you and think the Lasalle offerings should be talked about and it would be natural to have them be discussed with their Cadillac brothers......  let me dig into their offerings as well for this era. 

[ericmac]

I personally think the 1927-28 LaSalle products were one of the most beautiful cars ever made by GM. You could have trouble keeping it running but as a worst case scenario push it out of the garage,  get a lawn chair and a beer and just admire the view.

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, ericmac said:

I personally think the 1927-28 LaSalle products were one of the most beautiful cars ever made by GM. You could have trouble keeping it running but as a worst case scenario push it out of the garage,  get a lawn chair and a beer and just admire the view.

 

If you own and drive a 27-28 LaSalle you don’t drink beer, you drink whiskey because you will need to!

[jaisome358]

Hi, guys! I would like to share my recent find. I found a site where you can compare different cars, both old models and new ones, including roadsters. And as I understand it, their database is constantly growing. Feel free to use https://cararac.com/comparison/

[alsancle]

That website could save a lot of time when you are trying to decide between a 540K Special Roadster and a Duesenberg SSJ.

[John Bloom]

Since my post last week about Cadillac Roadsters of that era, I am a little surprised at how few of them I’ve been able to look at and research. Several convertible coupes and Phaeton/touring open cars but it seems like Cadillac roadsters from 1926-1930 are like hen’s teeth...  I haven’t looked at production numbers but I would have thought the inventory and online representation would have been stronger.  I guess that in itself is educational. 
 

[Cadillac Fan]

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az21/arizona/lots/r0043-1931-cadillac-v-8-roadster-by-fleetwood/1017545

[Cadillac Fan]

https://worldwideauctioneers.com/car-details/?id=90&rid=17

[Cadillac Fan]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-cadillac/

[Cadillac Fan]

26-29 are pretty rare.  You see way more sport phaetons and phaetons than roadsters.  

[alsancle]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:11 PM, md murray said:

Hey here's a fun one! I realize it's smaller but certainly a rare roadster.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/206/?category=list&length=96&page=3

 

 

I guess Mark Hyman and I have the same taste.   I thought this brought all the money in the world at Bonhams,  but I see he bought it and cleaned it up.  Now available for 225K.

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/7018-1931-hudson-greater-eight-boattail-speedster/