Seeking "Pullman" Automobile Picture

[ksbortner]

I am trying to find any photograph of an early car.  The car was called "The York" and was built in 1904/1905 by the York Automobile Company which later became Pullman Motor Car Company of York, Pennsylvania. The car was the second car built by A.P. Broomell. The first being the 6 wheeled Pullman.  When the 6 wheel car was not successful it was dismantled and a new car called The York was built.  They reportadly built 17 of The York model.  I have seen several black and white as well as color factory renderings of the car but I have never been able to track down an actual photograph of the car.  Has anyone here ever seen a photograph of this car? I am posting some color renderings of the car for reference. I look forward to hearing from anyone who may have seen or have a photograph of this car. 

[dibarlaw]

ksbortner:

 Being form the South Central PA. area (Chambersburg) I have always been fascinated by the Pullman and regional industrial history in general. I have "The 100-Year Journey of the Pullman Automobile" put out by the York County Heritage trust. I see by you avitar photo that it is the same car shown on page 93. Noted as Pullman #22 a 1916 Model 4-24.

Living in the area for 36 years I have come across many photos of early cars at various auctions. Never seeing any of the 1904-05 York. The only photograph being of the ad on page 27 of the aforementioned publication.

 Since I am a Buick person. My reference for the 37 first year production 1904 Buicks do show many existing photographs. Unfortunately no 1904 Model B cars exist. Excepting a tribute car made up of parts to depict the first Buick. Although in a May-June 1973 Horsless Carriage Gazette letter to the editor there is a mention of a Buick Model B chassis in Florida. Motor #X19X and a photograph.  Looking through many earlier publications occasionally one can make a connection.

 The mistique of the Pullman in our region has gleaned much information by the Rosenmiller family over the years. Yet one never knows what may turn up.

Has any other Pullmans turned up since the publication of the mentiond booklet? At the time (2003) there were 27 listed survivors.

 I wish you well in your search. Hope we can get together sometinme to share stories obout our cars.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by dibarlaw
spelling (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

We restored Mr Rosenmiller's '08 Pullman as well as his '10. Also worked on the 2 other Pullman autos he had.  The '08 is now in the museum in Boyertown.  Several Pullman cars have been cobbled together from various parts but I know of no newly discovered cars.

[TheMoneyPit]

Although the advertising is not as prevalent as Studebaker, EMF, and Flanders, this gasoline measure has Pullman and Everett added to the bottom. It’s from a long forgotten garage in Portsmouth New Hampshire.  It’s one of the few things I have seen with Pullman on it.

I know I have had it over 30 years because of the gal I was junk shopping with wasn’t even my girlfriend yet... and we’ve been married for almost 30 years!

[Restorer32]

Jim Grundy of Grundy insurance is a good source for Pullman info.  His Grandfather was a Pullman dealer.  He has  quite a bit of Pullman lit.

[ksbortner]

Being a Pullman owner,  I know most of the other Pullman owners and have checked with to see if any of them have seen a photograph of the car, However I do not know Mr. Grundy and have no way of contacting him. I am planning to check with the HCCA as well as the ACCA libraries to see if they possibly have a photo but I doubt they do.  

[ksbortner]

3 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

ksbortner:

 Being form the South Central PA. area (Chambersburg) I have always been fascinated by the Pullman and regional industrial history in general. I have "The 100-Year Journey of the Pullman Automobile" put out by the York County Heritage trust. I see by you avitar photo that it is the same car shown on page 93. Noted as Pullman #22 a 1916 Model 4-24.

Living in the area for 36 years I have come across many photos of early cars at various auctions. Never seeing any of the 1904-05 York. The only photograph being of the ad on page 27 of the aforementioned publication.

 Since I am a Buick person. My reference for the 37 first year production 1904 Buicks do show many existing photographs. Unfortunately no 1904 Model B cars exist. Excepting a tribute car made up of parts to depict the first Buick. Although in a May-June 1973 Horsless Carriage Gazette letter to the editor there is a mention of a Buick Model B chassis in Florida. Motor #X19X and a photograph.  Looking through many earlier publications occasionally one can make a connection.

 The mistique of the Pullman in our region has gleaned much information by the Rosenmiller family over the years. Yet one never knows what may turn up.

Has any other Pullmans turned up since the publication of the mentiond booklet? At the time (2003) there were 27 listed survivors.

 I wish you well in your search. Hope we can get together sometinme to share stories obout our cars.

 

dibarlow:

I have been fascinated with York County history and in particular its transportation history most of my life. My father-in-law purchased the Pullman in my avatar from Fred Rosenmiller right after the book "The 100-Year Journey of the Pullman Automobile". was published. My father-in-law actually wrote one of the chapters in the book.  Meeting my future wife and finding out her dad owned a Pullman really sparked my interested in the Pullman Motor Car Company. The car had been on load to the Agricultural and Industrial Museum in York for years when he purchased it. He left it there until their special Pullman exhibit was over and then brought it home. Between my father-in-law and myself we have done a lot of research and amassed quite a collection of Pullman memorabilia and photographs of Pullman automobiles but have never come across one of "The York" I also spoke to the other Pullman owners that I know (which is most of them) and none of them have a photograph of the car either. I knew it was a long shot asking her but you never know what someone might have. 

[Restorer32]

So your family bought the Cloverleaf Roadster. I wondered what became of that car.  Your engine is a Gulden, Belknap and Swartz.  We did a minor rebuilt on your engine years ago and actually found a NOS head gasket from Olson's Gaskets in Washington state.  Nice car. 

[ksbortner]

2 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

So your family bought the Cloverleaf Roadster. I wondered what became of that car.  Your engine is a Gulden, Belknap and Swartz.  We did a minor rebuilt on your engine years ago and actually found a NOS head gasket from Olson's Gaskets in Washington state.  Nice car. 

Yes my father-in-law purchased the car from Fred back in 2003.  It does indeed have the GBS engine.  It is a good running car we have had no issues with it other than with the carburetor. It is a lot of fun to drive, unfortunately we have little time to drive it. Maybe when my daughters are grown I will have more time to devote to the antique cars. 

[Peter Gariepy]

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 hours ago, ksbortner said:

I am planning to check with the HCCA as well as the ACCA libraries

to see if they possibly have a photo but I doubt they do.  

 

Peter, that appears to be the photograph that

he's looking for.  It came from an unexpected 

place:  an old ad.  The long search may be over!

 

Maybe it's not so amazing after all that the vast

knowledge and resources of our AACA Forum

members come through in yet another quest.

 

[TheMoneyPit]

Looking at that ad, and the date added in the way it was leads me to think it can be found in one of Clymer’s motor scrapbooks from the 50’s... I will have to see if I can figure out which one.

[ksbortner]

11 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Peter, that appears to be the photograph that

he's looking for.  It came from an unexpected 

place:  an old ad.  The long search may be over!

 

Maybe it's not so amazing after all that the vast

knowledge and resources of our AACA Forum

members come through in yet another quest.

 

I have seen this ad before, however I must admit that I always thought it was an illustration and not a photograph.  I guess it is actually a photograph of the car. Thank you everyone.

[John_S_in_Penna]

42 minutes ago, ksbortner said:

I guess it is actually a photograph of the car. Thank you everyone.

 

It clearly is a photograph, cropped for their

advertisement.  So a photograph was indeed

taken of that model.

 

Maybe the full photograph, complete with its

background and even clearer, still exists.  And

it's plausible to think that other pictures may have

been taken at the same time, or of other examples

at other times.  So let us feel free to continue the quest!

[8E45E]

I wonder if the Public Library in York still has old newspapers, or even their old photographs of local history.  They could be a good resource if any historical photos exist.

 

Craig

[TheMoneyPit]

I found that ad and a Pullman ad in Floyd Clymer’s motor scrapbook number 6. Those are readily available on eBay if you want it..:

[ksbortner]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

I wonder if the Public Library in York still has old newspapers, or even their old photographs of local history.  They could be a good resource if any historical photos exist.

 

Craig

I have a subscription to Newspapers.com which has newspaper archives for the York papers as well as archives from 20,000 plus newspapers from the 1700's through present.  I have done extensive searching and can find very little about Pullman and The York from that early.  I have however found many great articles about Pullman from later years.  Newspapers.com is a wonderful resource.

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

It clearly is a photograph, cropped for their

advertisement.  So a photograph was indeed

taken of that model.

 

Maybe the full photograph, complete with its

background and even clearer, still exists.  And

it's plausible to think that other pictures may have

been taken at the same time, or of other examples

at other times.  So let us feel free to continue the quest!

It would be great to track down the original photo used in this ad if it still exists.  My search will continue.

[ksbortner]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:22 PM, TheMoneyPit said:

Although the advertising is not as prevalent as Studebaker, EMF, and Flanders, this gasoline measure has Pullman and Everett added to the bottom. It’s from a long forgotten garage in Portsmouth New Hampshire.  It’s one of the few things I have seen with Pullman on it.

I know I have had it over 30 years because of the gal I was junk shopping with wasn’t even my girlfriend yet... and we’ve been married for almost 30 years!

What is the name of the garage this gas measure stick is from?

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 4/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, ksbortner said:

Maybe when my daughters are grown I will have more time to devote to the antique cars. 

 

Mr. Bortner, let me offer an alternative to waiting:

Involve your family more in old cars, even now!

There are many aspects which your girls can cherish:

The family getting together for country drives,

summertime stops for refreshing ice cream, even an

occasional car show that might also have crafts or

other diversions.  Don't make these activities the 

last priority in life.

 

Don't exclude the girls until they're gone, but let them

participate in making fond memories with Mom and Dad

and an antique car.

[TheMoneyPit]

2 hours ago, ksbortner said:

What is the name of the garage this gas measure stick is from?

Sinclair Garage on the corner of Richards Ave. and Middle St.