1966 Fury III

[PhilAndrews]

I just bought this, because apparently I need a basket case to fix.

 

It should be here today, at some point; then the fun of finding how much is missing begins.

 

I like a challenge.

 

Phil

[alsancle]

Congrats.   

[PhilAndrews]

It's home now, the jigsaw puzzle begins.

 

Phil

[plymouthcranbrook]

The one car from my youth I wish I still had was a 66 Plymouth two door hardtop Fury III. 383, 4 speed trans. Manual steering and brakes.  Lured away by little British sports cars. Wish you well on your project.

Edited April 16, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

I pulled the seats and carpets out today.

 

Honestly, I've seen worse. The front sections of both footwell pans have both been replaced at some point, and the passenger side needs doing again.

I took a look and there's listed 66-70 B-body pans but they look different to this (I think they're Challenger pans). Anyone has a source of front pans for the Fury?

 

Thanks

 

Phil

Edited April 17, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

Finished sorting through a couple boxes of stuff.

I put its face back on because it looked sad.

 

Cheered me up a little to see the car look vaguely like it should.

 

Phil

[PhilAndrews]

This here was "previously professionally rebuilt".

 

If that's wrong, what else is? Thankfully it's not been run. It does turn over by hand though which is a good thing after being stored so long.

 

Phil

[plymouthcranbrook]

Looks like you are in the unenviable position of having to check everything.  The joys of projects

[PhilAndrews]

1 hour ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Looks like you are in the unenviable position of having to check everything.  The joys of projects

Very much so. I'm going to pop it open, check all the journals (if I can remember where my PlastiGage is) and see if they actually took it out and added 360ci pistons in, or if it's still just a plain 318...

[Bloo]

That's the wrong engine. 1966 318 engines are Wideblocks, not LA series engines. Also stuffing 360 pistons in an LA318 is a non starter. If I remember correctly, the cylinder walls are too thin on the LA318 block for that much overbore.

 

LA 273, 318, and 340 engines all have the same stroke and the same crank journal sizes. So does the Wideblock 318 that would have originally come in the car (assuming an "E" for the fifth digit of the VIN). The cranks are mostly interchangeable except for balancing (piston weight compensation).

 

LA360 has larger crank journals and a longer stroke, so the crank does not fit the others. All 360 cranks are cast cranks, all are externally balanced, and you will notice a huge eccentric weight on the harmonic balancer that the others do not have. There would also be weights on the flex plate at the back of the crank.

 

There may be a number stamped on the front of the block just under the head. It might tell you what the block is. It would have started "B 318" on the original engine, again assuming an "E" in the VIN.

 

A similar view of a 1966 318 would look like this:

 

.

 

.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

That's the wrong engine. 1966 318 engines are Wideblocks, not LA series engines. Also stuffing 360 pistons in an LA318 is a non starter. If I remember correctly, the cylinder walls are too thin on the LA318 block for that much overbore.

 

LA 273, 318, and 340 engines all have the same stroke and the same crank journal sizes. So does the Wideblock 318 that would have originally come in the car (assuming an "E" for the fifth digit of the VIN). The cranks are mostly interchangeable except for balancing (piston weight compensation).

 

LA360 has larger crank journals and a longer stroke, so the crank does not fit the others. All are cast cranks, all are externally balanced, and you will notice a huge eccentric weight on the harmonic balancer that the others do not have. There would also be weights on the flex plate at the back of the crank.

 

There may be a number stamped on the front of the block just under the head. It might tell you what the block is. It would have started "B 318" on the original engine, again assuming an "E" in the VIN.

 

 

You're correct to surmise it's the wrong engine- how correct it is, even for the parts it's supposedly got in remains in question.

It's got hydraulic lifters, and the seller said it was a later block, the original poly was badly cracked to the point of being irreprable.

 

 

Edit: Scraped the paint off and cleaned up the engine number: 3A167083.

 

 

Also, given how badly he was duped by the shop, it's totally possible this was just painted and that was claimed to be "rebuilt".

 

Phil

Edited April 19, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

The "spares" block is stamped 2B428637.

 

Didn't have my calipers with me to measure the bores.

 

Edit: 3.90" bore.

 

Phil

Edited April 19, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Where is the pad those numbers are stamped on? Maybe post a picture of the engines from further back?

 

3.91 is a 318

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

14 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Where is the pad those numbers are stamped on? Maybe post a picture of the engines from further back?

 

3.91 is a 318

 

Yeah, figured it was a 318.

 

That's on a flat section, bottom right of the engine by the oil pan and (what looks like) an oil gallery plug.

 

[PhilAndrews]

I guess my next question is:

 

Is this block actually compatible with hydraulic lifters...?

[Bloo]

Based on a bunch of assumptions, yes. All LA engines had hydraulic lifters except most (all?) 273s. If I remember correctly wideblocks are drilled for them too, although those all had solids except the ones they used in 59 Dodges.

 

Look on the front of the block (facing the radiator), right below the head for stamped numbers. Maybe we can figure out what kind of block it is.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

Both are block casting 2536030 318-12, so LA 1967-1975.

 

Engine in the car:

3M318 01161446

(1973, Mound Rd., 318, April 26th*, s/n 1446)?

 

Spare block:

HM318R 39330692

(1972, Mound Rd., 318 Regular Gas, Nov 3, s/n 0692)?

 

Phil

 

*doesn't match their epoch numbering system

Edited April 20, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[Bloo]

The 3 makes no sense to me. Year should be a letter i think? Letters started over in 1965 with "A". I would have guessed both 1974, but I just don't know. Original engine would have started out "B 318".

 

Definitely LA318 blocks though.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

31 minutes ago, Bloo said:

The 3 makes no sense to me. Year should be a letter i think? Letters started over in 1965 with "A". I would have guessed both 1974, but I just don't know. Original engine would have started out "B 318".

 

Definitely LA318 blocks though.

 

Apparently they interchanged the letters and last number of the year depending on who was stamping the numbers that day. 

But yes, 318 LA blocks.

 

Apparently if you go to maximum overbore you can get 328ci, says Google?

[Bloo]

The 59 Dodge wideblock was 326, and I think it was .040 over. The way I remember it an LA318 will take .060 easy as long as there's not severe core shift or anything. Don't take my word for it though, find someone who knows.

 

[PhilAndrews]

I don't trust anything to have been done to this engine until I take it apart and measure it; an aerosol can of orange paint and an invoice is cheap...

[PhilAndrews]

Found the carburetor, in the bottom of a box.

No, I don't know why the choke is missing.

 

Phil

[Bloo]

I doubt that is worth screwing around with. By the time you found all the missing parts, it would probably exceed the cost of a better carb. I assume there's a 4 barrel manifold then? I doubt anything like that ever came stock on a 318 of any year.

[PhilAndrews]

3 hours ago, Bloo said:

I doubt that is worth screwing around with. By the time you found all the missing parts, it would probably exceed the cost of a better carb. I assume there's a 4 barrel manifold then? I doubt anything like that ever came stock on a 318 of any year.

I have the stock manifold and 2bbl Carter, but the engine in the car has a Holley manifold on that fits this carb.

It'll be good enough to fire it up when the time comes, I'll clean it up.

 

Phil

[PhilAndrews]

Buffed the top of the wing out of morbid curiosity. 

Nope, the paint was lain on so badly it looks like a bowling ball.

 

Phil

[plymouthcranbrook]

Not to be more negative than absolutely necessary and no disrespect intended this car is looking like a “jack up the hood ornament and slide another car in” moment. Gonna be a LOT of work.  

[PhilAndrews]

2 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Not to be more negative than absolutely necessary and no disrespect intended this car is looking like a “jack up the hood ornament and slide another car in” moment. Gonna be a LOT of work.  

 

Oh, I know. This is my "keep me busy" time!

The body is overall fairly straight, though the paint is terrible. I have boxes of new bits and the intention of this is chip away at it slowly over a couple years.

 

Phil

[plymouthcranbrook]

The sad part for me is now I want one🙁

[PhilAndrews]

1 minute ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

The sad part for me is now I want one🙁

I'll sell it to you when it's done!

[plymouthcranbrook]

1 minute ago, PhilAndrews said:

I'll sell it to you when it's done!

If it goes like you plan I will most likely be too old to know the gas from the brake. Thanks for thinking of me though.

[PhilAndrews]

If it quietens down a bit at work I may pull the engine and transmission this weekend. Taking it apart is a low cost venture; it needs inspection because it's been sat so long and I really want to see what was actually done (or not) to it.

Weather's forecast to be crummy so perfect in-the-garage work. 

 

Phil

[kings32]

I have 66 conv Have spare parts and know a a owner that has more plus some extra engines ,66 318,s  Kings 32

[PhilAndrews]

Ok, so 318 gurus- a question.

 

+0.040" 32v hemi pistons + wedge heads.

Is that a workable combination?

 

Pulled the engine and lifted a head off.

 

Been stored damp, one valve is locked up solid.

 

The wedge head pistons appear to have a slight dish to the crown. I'm not sure if the valves on these will foul...? Hard to tell with hydraulic lifters.

 

Phil

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[Bloo]

It does look like they bored it. Compression is pretty low on those later 318s. I have no idea about any Hemi pistons. Is that what those are? If you are wondering about compression, I suggest measuring how deep the pistons are in the bore, CCing a head, and then doing the math. Don't forget to add the thickness of the head gaskets you plan to use. In my opinion don't rely on any estimates or what the books say. Measure it. There is nothing unusual about a little extra deck height on an LA block if I remember correctly.

[PhilAndrews]

4 minutes ago, Bloo said:

It does look like they bored it. Compression is pretty low on those later 318s. I have no idea about any Hemi pistons. Is that what those are? If you are wondering about compression, I suggest measuring how deep the pistons are in the bore, CCing a head, and then doing the math. Don't forget to add the thickness of the head gaskets you plan to use. In my opinion don't rely on any estimates or what the books say. Measure it. There is nothing unusual about a little extra deck height on an LA block if I remember correctly.

 

No, more the clearance from the top of the valves to the piston crown. 

Did Dodge do a 32 valve hemi? Those are 4 valves per cylinder pistons.

That's been machined and it's still mediocre. I haven't pulled the other head off yet.

 

Phil

 

[Bloo]

I'll bet they are standard rebuild blanks, but I don't know. My guess is that the extra divots allow you to use them on either side of the engine. You can check valve clearance with clay. Some, maybe all LA engines will bend valves if they lose a timing chain. Don't use any plastic timing chains.....

 

 

[PhilAndrews]

Yeah, been there, done that with interference engines.

All the lifters are totally pumped down so that's not a good indication, however I had a thought and the valve that's stuck open allowed the engine to rotate so that much lift is clearance to the crown.

 

Stock cam should be fine in that case. Looking at it I'm going with your assumption for the clearance divots.

 

Phil

 

Edit: I guess I need to stamp an A in the engine number now...

Edited April 25, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

Left bank picayune pistons.

All good apart from the rod on 7 is backwards. Yup, they've transposed 7 and 8.

 

Rings and lands are a bit grubby. I'll pull the rings, check gaps and reassemble. 

Main bearings are acceptable.

 

Phil

 

Edit:

I don't have a 318 manual- the cast in squares on the rods, all towards the front of the engine?

Edited April 26, 2021 by PhilAndrews (see edit history)

[PhilAndrews]

The old poly pistons from the other block are what I'm used to- the wrist pin is a tight fit in the piston and the conrod floats on the wrist pin.

The new ones the pin is an interference fit in the con rod and the wrist pin floats in the piston.

 

The latter feels.. wrong from an engineering standpoint; is that correct for this? I'm used to the wear point being the rod, not the piston. I've never had an engine with press fit pins before. I guess it's the choice for higher redline RPM builds? (No chance of losing a retainer?)

 

Phil

 

Edit: "Pee hole to the cam, numbers/locks to the outside" is apparently the rule on this, forgot that rule with old V8's.

Edited April 26, 2021 by PhilAndrews
Add'l comment (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Don't get me started....  Done correctly, pressed pins are reliable. Are they as good as full floating pins? No. They cost less to manufacture. For high RPM I would talk to a piston manufacturer. Piston and ring technology has exploded in the last few years. I would expect floating pins and double retainers or spirolox, but I may be out of date. Nylon pucks are another option.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)