67 Lincoln Contintental 4 Door convertible 92k or Offer

[alsancle]

30 years ago I drove one of these from Boston to Hershey at 80 mph the whole way.   What a great car.   My dad had to send his to RI to some guy who was the guru for making the top actually go down (and back up).   The 92K seems pretty high,  but this auction has an unbelievable 420 watchers.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Lincoln-Continental/324168737036

 

This is a 1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible in highly restored condition. This car is in exceptional condition. Paint and chrome are spectacular. Interior is in excellent condition. Mechanically the car runs beautifully. Car was restored with over $60,000 spent. For more details call Simon at: 786.317.4889.

Im not dealer Im private seller. I had this car for 7 years. I bought it from another collector. This car will turn anyone head.

I have 4 cars that I decided to sale from my collection to make a room for a new ones Im buying.

Any questions feel free to contact m

[Matt Harwood]

Best colors on worst year. Lots of money spent, but lots of alternatives for less. A study in contradictions.

 

I keep waiting for these to really take off, but aside from a few anomalies that pop up every now and then (which is why everyone thinks they're taking off) values always seem to flatten out again. I think a big part of it is that these are advanced collector cars, not for the beginner. Lots of guys see them on TV and want to have one then realize that it's $2000/year in maintenance just to own it, never mind feeding, insuring, and housing it. It is absolutely the American Rolls-Royce in every sense of the word.

[alsancle]

27 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Best colors on worst year. Lots of money spent, but lots of alternatives for less. A study in contradictions.

 

I keep waiting for these to really take off, but aside from a few anomalies that pop up every now and then (which is why everyone thinks they're taking off) values always seem to flatten out again. I think a big part of it is that these are advanced collector cars, not for the beginner. Lots of guys see them on TV and want to have one then realize that it's $2000/year in maintenance just to own it, never mind feeding, insuring, and housing it. It is absolutely the American Rolls-Royce in every sense of the word.

Matt, what do you think is the best year?

[Matt Harwood]

The earlier cars seem to command a significant premium. There were a lot of changes in, I believe, 1963 where the cars got longer and wider, the windows changed (flat vs. curved side glass), the shape of the top changed, and a lot of details were watered-down to make it cheaper to build. The 1966-67 cars are the largest of all with the least dramatic styling so they're at the bottom of this particular food chain. Condition plays a significant role, of course, but the purity of the early design makes it the one that serious collectors want to own.

[edinmass]

Fun cars.......I bought mine out of Chet’s junkyard in Springfield Mass for 300 bucks in 1986. I used it as a shelf in the barn for ten years. Then the guru from Connecticut or Rhode Island happened to visit the shop on an AACA tour. Sold it on the spot. The fenders that were sitting on the car (Pierce)are now hanging from the ceiling......where we put them in 1996. Time does sure fly. Made a fortune on the Lincoln. Bought a Pierce with it. Best car I owned and never took to a show. It needed a total so there was no down side. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Gearheadengineer]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

Matt, what do you think is the best year?

IMO, 1964. Longer wheelbase (3” added to the rear seat area), still the crisp clean styling.  Cleaner dashboard than the earlier ones. This was the year they went to flat (not curved) windows but they still look great. 1965 added disc brakes and had basically the same interior but the front end got a little busy. Full disclosure: I have owned a ‘64 for 21 years now.  I specifically looked for a ‘64 for the reasons above.  I think they are all great. 
 

As Matt says, these are not for the beginner.  You need very strong mechanical and electrical skills or deep pockets.  Come to think of it, you need deep pockets even if you have the skills.  When they are working, they are sublime.  I have put tens of thousands of miles on mine.  I did a road trip from CT to IA and back with my dad in 2010.  Cruising all day at 70mph with the top down was just awesome.  

 

Values take off with popular culture.  Matrix movie comes out, values go up.  “Entourage” goes on TV, same deal.  Rap videos, sports stars, etc.  I think the peak was about five years ago.  I should have sold mine then.  
 

I think this subject car is super nice, but it’s priced high for current market.  Even for a perfect car, and this isn’t that.  At a quick glance I see things like pitted interior chrome and broken window switches.

 

 The only way to get that kind of money is to airbag it and put on 24” wheels with an LS engine. Not that I’m recommending that, but that’s where the money is for these. This one isn’t stock, but it’s not custom enough either.  I hope I am wrong because if this thing goes for anywhere near $92k mine will be listed on eBay the next day. 😁

 

- John

[JamesR]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

The earlier cars seem to command a significant premium. There were a lot of changes in, I believe, 1963 where the cars got longer and wider, the windows changed (flat vs. curved side glass), the shape of the top changed, and a lot of details were watered-down to make it cheaper to build. The 1966-67 cars are the largest of all with the least dramatic styling so they're at the bottom of this particular food chain. Condition plays a significant role, of course, but the purity of the early design makes it the one that serious collectors want to own.

 

I'd heard that JFK's assassination had kept those cars from being as valuable as they might've been. Did you ever perceive that to be true? Or was that too long ago to make any difference now?

[alsancle]

At least 1/2 the population doesn't know who JFK is.   I'm not sure there is any correlation.  Ultimately it is a 4 door,  although as a convertible that is what makes it cool.

[Matt Harwood]

I think most of them suffer from deferred maintenance. They have always been expensive to maintain and a vast majority of them are limping along at 70%. People know they're problematic cars, prone to rust, and that few people can afford to restore them (or have the will). That keeps values relatively low.

 

As I said, there are occasional anomalies that spike the charts, but most of them are spotty at best and nobody has the intestinal fortitude to jump in and make one of these right. So they just limp it along as best as they can until they're fed up and pass it along to someone else who does the same thing. Not quite the Rolls-Royce cycle of life, but close--the only difference is that these stay healthier longer than a Rolls so it's easier to limp them along. With a Rolls, failures are almost always catastrophic.

[63RedBrier]

I bought a low mileage '64 sedan out of the Car Corral at Macungie at least 25 years ago for a very reasonable price.  It was original paint dark green with an off-white leather interior.  I drove the car all the way home to Fairfax Virginia at least five hours, stopping at Firestone where my Brother-in-law worked for FIVE new tires and a front end alignment.  The original spare had sat on the shelf in the trunk for so long that the tread had actually fallen to one side!  It was here I learned from watching one of the tech's loosen the bolts on the front end how to intertwine two wrenches for more leverage.  I also replaced the entire dual exhaust system and got at least the driver's window to go down and up.  I remember contacting one of the Lincoln suppliers to order new window switches and was floored by the price!  He said, don't worry, that is not the problem.  The issue was the lubricant in the gears of the window motor which looked like hardened peanut butter!  Sure enough, I cleaned out all the hardened grease and re-greased and the window worked great!  The only issue with the car when I sold it was one of the exhaust manifold ears was cracked and the transmission had morning sickness.  Once it warmed up the trans worked fine.  My wife and I used the Continental in our wedding.  Great highway cruiser, but for the high single digit fuel mileage...  I sold the car locally and I believe it went down to the Fredericksburg area.  I used the funds from the sale to buy my 1963 Greenbrier which sits at the top of my collection!  I tell my kids if anything happens to me, keep the Greenbrier and sell everything else!  It has been THAT good to me!        

[alsancle]

I’m sure a brake job isn’t 10k like the 70-90 Rolls Royce either.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

61, 62 with the short wheelbase and curved glass cabin.  The front bumper on the earliest cars is shared with the Tbird.  63s are still nice.  I think the perfect proportions lose a little something with stretch in 64, and the grille in 65 is a bit less distinctive.  Big fall off for 66, 67.  I also prefer the pod like dash on earlier cars.  

[m-mman]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Not quite the Rolls-Royce cycle of life, but close--the only difference is that these stay healthier longer than a Rolls so it's easier to limp them along. With a Rolls, failures are almost always catastrophic.

They do have FoMoCo engineering underneath it all. So, regular brake fluid, Autolite ignition and charging (not British) BUT you have to take them on their own terms.

 

Accessibility is a huge issue. There is no "simple under dash repair". There is no "Popping off a door panel" to fix a window.  P/W switches do have fragile prongs but they are surprisingly easy to open up and clean ONCE YOU KNOW HOW. 

 

1964 Shop Manual - "Radio removal, step 1. Remove sun visors"(?)  Then the A pillar trim, then the top of the dash, (disconnect wires and rear mount) then the front of the dash (heavy diecast part door to door) THEN you can actually remove the radio from the dash. 

 

Not quite a Rolls, but they sure arent a Mustang-Falcon either. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

To those who know:  Please keep the explanations coming!

I'm learning a lot.

 

Jay Leno did a video on this generation of Lincoln convertible.

He mentioned that the rear (?) side window goes down

a couple of inches automatically when you open the door,

so it clears the convertible top.  And I assume there is a 

series of electrical relays to open and close the rear panel

when the top goes down and up.

 

Are the sedans almost as complicated?

Are 1961-66 Ford Thunderbird convertibles equally problematic,

since they must have the same top/trunk panels?

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Somewhere I have a write up on these from around 1980.  This is by memory but I was a fan then as well.  "The average production time for a 1963 Caddy, 2 hours, the Lincoln was more like a day. "  very difficult to restore certain systems, but quality was incredible.  Electric window lifts, etc dipped in rubber.  These cars were built to last, not be restored"...

 

I just love all the little unusual touches on these cars, real wood trim, front hinged hood, crisp lines, etc.

 

Still might end up with one yet.

[Gearheadengineer]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

To those who know:  Please keep the explanations coming!

I'm learning a lot.

 

Jay Leno did a video on this generation of Lincoln convertible.

He mentioned that the rear (?) side window goes down

a couple of inches automatically when you open the door,

so it clears the convertible top.  And I assume there is a 

series of electrical relays to open and close the rear panel

when the top goes down and up.

 

Are the sedans almost as complicated?

Are 1961-66 Ford Thunderbird convertibles equally problematic,

since they must have the same top/trunk panels?

 

 

Yes, that is true about the windows.  As soon as the rear door starts to open the window drops about 4 inches. Pretty cool setup for ‘50s/‘60s technology.  Mechanical switches and relays. 
 

Top mechanism is pretty simple in concept once you spend some time to study the manual. It’s a sequence of operations. But lots of switches and connectors to deal with. One of the most complicated is the "upper back panel limit switch.” Also one hydraulic pump, electrically controlled hydraulic valves, and a couple of electric motors too. Oh, and relays. Lots of relays.

Sedans are less complicated, but they still aren’t Mustang or even Galaxie simple. 
 

Curved glass is nice, but my windows are almost always hidden inside the doors. Here is my ‘64, with the rare occurrence of my wife driving. She says it is too big for the rural roads around my house.

 

 

[m-mman]

5 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

He mentioned that the rear (?) side window goes down

a couple of inches automatically when you open the door,

so it clears the convertible top. 

 

1 hour ago, Gearheadengineer said:

Yes, that is true about the windows.  As soon as the rear door starts to open the window drops about 4 inches.

 

There were two engineering/clearance hurdles to overcome. 

 

1. the top rear corner of the rear glass window - The window is basically cut square, the top fabric has a radius to it. They are not matched so the window glass could/did get caught on the top fabric. 

 

2. The bigger issue - How do you seal between the hardtop windows (no post) with a rear suicide door??? 

 

This problem happened in one other place; the 57-8 El Dorado Brougham. In the Cads there is a half round rubber seal on the rear glass that pushes against the front glass. As the front door is opened the glass is easily pulled away from the seal (no problem). When the rear door is opened, the half round seal is dragged/snagged against the front glass (to gain clearance) and then pops back into shape when the door glass is free.

 

The Lincoln uses an "L" shaped seal like you would find on the rear window of any postless hardtop car. When closed this seal wraps around that BACK of the front glass and is resistant to wind and water. However by design it is also mechanically locked behind the front glass. To open the rear door with the front & back windows raised, you would have to bend the seal flat(!) Then to close the door you would have to push the L part of the seal well beyond the front glass in order for it to return to shape. (not possible)

 

To remedy this dilemma as soon as a rear handle releases the door latch (there is a little switch that is a part of the latch) the circuit is completed and the glass is lowered 3"-4". This moves the seal back and down from the front glass and top fabric. When the door is closed the window is then automatically raised fully. If the window is fully (or partially) down, nothing happens, the glass stays where it was. Because the seal is clear of the front door and top.

There are limit switches that tell the circuit whether the glass is fully up (so that the glass does its opening/closing dance) or lowered beyond the 4" area of interference. 

 

Production records show that in 1961 six sedans were made with full hardtop windows (like the convertible) This was not a good idea and beyond these prototypes(?) all the Lincoln sedans had hardtop (frame less) doors, but used a thin pillar between the doors to seal against. 

 

The RELAYS are pretty robust and reliable. It is the LIMIT SWITCHES that are the trouble makers!!! These are little arm and button type switches that tell the circuit where things are physically (trunk up or down? Top locked/unlocked? top linkage up/down or slightly up or down) They are not sealed they are commonly placed in the wet bottoms and dirty corners of the car and when they don't make good internal contact, nothing happens! They are not easily opened or cleaned and their electrical connections are tenuous at best. This leads to the exclamation "Darn it!! It was working a moment ago!!"   And it might work perfectly fine a moment from now.  Or it might work perfectly in the opposite direction. <Arrrrrggggg!!!>

 

57-9 Ford retractable Skyliners have the same basic issues. In those circles a club member has designed/built a box of switches on a cord that can be wired directly to the relays. The box can be stored under the back seat. When a limit switch fails, you pull out the box, and a push of the correct button powers the motor you have selected and something moves. However your MUST completely understand what needs to be opened or closed next in sequence, or something will be damaged. 

 

[Matt Harwood]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:36 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

To those who know:  Please keep the explanations coming!

I'm learning a lot.

 

Jay Leno did a video on this generation of Lincoln convertible.

He mentioned that the rear (?) side window goes down

a couple of inches automatically when you open the door,

so it clears the convertible top.  And I assume there is a 

series of electrical relays to open and close the rear panel

when the top goes down and up.

 

Are the sedans almost as complicated?

Are 1961-66 Ford Thunderbird convertibles equally problematic,

since they must have the same top/trunk panels?

 

 

 

LOL, even Jay's car has a horrendous exhaust leak. The ALL have exhaust leaks.

[jimkf]

Many years ago I wanted a Lincoln and a friend's father offered up two from his collection - a 67 in mint green or a 68 in a darker shade of green. I opted for the 67 because it was all around the better car for the astronomical asking price of $800. Everything worked, including the pump driven wipers that I could set to run at a crawl. The car was indestructible and passed everything on the road but a gas station. I think I put something like 50,000 miles on that car and did nothing to it but regular maintenance. With the top down, it was quite the summer cruiser. But, with a growing family and storage a problem, I sold the car to a local collector in the late 80s.

 

With all of the disparaging comments about the 67, it sounds like I had one of the rare good ones!

[Gearheadengineer]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

LOL, even Jay's car has a horrendous exhaust leak. The ALL have exhaust leaks.

Mine doesn’t have an exhaust leak - it has a permanent partial cutout for increased performance. 

[ericmac]

Ever notice for such a rare and valuable car there are always a ton of them for sale? Over the years I have owned 12 of these cars and consider the 63 the be the purest from an appearance perspective, but with the best performance compromise overall.  I think (and this is 100% subjective) the '62 is the best looking of all years, followed by '65, however,  I find there seems to be no single year that is the clear favorite. As has been said before,  these are definitely not a car for a beginner.  I know one '62 that was the subject of 5 started and failed restoration attempts (including my own), though one owner (attempt number 7) finally succeeded. He finished the car and sold it to a very happy new owner. Personally,  I like a 67 thus I like the car that is advertised.  The colors are fantastic. My 37 Cadillac is a lot easier car to work on and much more reliable.  I'll stick with it and pass on the Lincoln. 

[EmTee]

I had a '67 sedan that I bought from the original owner in 1982 for $700 when I was in CA with about 100K miles on it.  Body, black vinyl top and interior were perfect.  Silver paint was burned- through by the sun to the primer in spots on hood and trunk lid, but those slab sides were perfect!  Drove it cross country without incident.  My wife described it as "a living room with cruise control". 

Edited April 18, 2021 by EmTee (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I have learned enough about these over years here and through a couple pals, enough for trepidation.  10 years on with an MB R107, arguably some complexity but no where near as scary as the Lincoln.  My point being after tackling a cpuple complex trouble spots myself and farming a big job out, I finally feel I am close to expert level with those cars.  I wonder how long the learning curve is on a Lincoln.  Certainly busted the "well, an American car from the 60s, how complicated can it be" myth a while ago...

Edited April 18, 2021 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)