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1922 Buick 45?


Greacore
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Hello,  I’m Dave, I am in SE Wisconsin.  I have what’s thought to be a 1922 but the only numbers I can find tell me otherwise. It really doesn’t matter though because I now can someone’s  feeble attempt to replace the rockers. What I really need is an assembly for the steering wheel.  I also need the cable that runs through it.  I bought this two years ago, finally got it home last year and just got the radiator back from having the tanks repaired and a new, after market core installed.  Hugh helped me in getting the correct cap for that, Thank you Hugh.  
  I can spin the motor with the hand crank, its free but stiff, not real stiff but just stiff enough to make me feel like a sally. I don’t want to take the motor apart if I don’t have to.  I understand to remove the oil pan, that will allow a great view of my crank and also allows cleaning gunk from the pan as well.  Could I run something through the engine to remove the inside gunk?  I am working front to back in case the engine is junk I won’t be to far ahead to give up.  Any advice is welcome and appreciated. The number is from the rear of the body above the gas tank.  Could not find anything on the frame.  

C3D978A3-CC0F-4303-9630-C1DA5DCB0027.jpeg

87DBACF2-EF79-4E19-9DEE-BDC7FC83E6BB.jpeg

BACBB781-AC7B-4792-B870-95244EBC945F.jpeg

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Dave, 

    Can you provide a photo of each side of the engine.  That may help with an ID of the year.  The serial numbers for a 1923 start with 826497, so the body tag may indicate 1923.   Not sure if that is a real ID tag.   The car should have a engine tag and a frame tag.  The engine tags start in 1922 with 767948 and 1923 starts with 890666.  The serial and engine tags do not match.

 

If you want to do the minimal, drain the oil and drop the pan.  Clean out the sludge (which there will be).   Put some oil in each cylinder thru the spark plug hole.  From underneath, Wipe the cylinder with oil  and feel how the cylinder walls feel.  This will give it some corrosion protection and lubrication.   You should be able to wipe each cylinder wall when they are on TDC.    

 

The old pan gasket will likely fall off in pieces.  Remove all the old gasket material.  Just get some RTV and make a temporary pan seal so you can put the pan back on if you are just wanting to see how it will run.   Personally I would order a new pan gasket from Olsons Gaskets.  The pan gasket is not that difficult to replace.

Add fresh oil.  Be sure to clean up the valves - I think you can remove the valve cages.  Lubricate the rocker arms.     

I can tell you if it were my car, I would disassemble the engine, but some people are willing to assume a little more risk.       

 

There is only 1 wire in the braided cable on the end of the steering shaft.  That is for the horn wire.  

Hugh 

 

 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Dave

Looking at a previous post of your car,  1923 had crowned/domed fenders,  where as 1922 had fenders with a bead around the edge.  Looks like yours is a 21 or 22  as the two years were identical.

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8 hours ago, Rod Wise said:

Dave

Looking at a previous post of your car,  1923 had crowned/domed fenders,  where as 1922 had fenders with a bead around the edge.  Looks like yours is a 21 or 22  as the two years were identical.

Yes, the fenders have are beaded. Thank you. 

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10 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Dave, 

    Can you provide a photo of each side of the engine.  That may help with an ID of the year.  The serial numbers for a 1923 start with 826497, so the body tag may indicate 1923.   Not sure if that is a real ID tag.   The car should have a engine tag and a frame tag.  The engine tags start in 1922 with 767948 and 1923 starts with 890666.  The serial and engine tags do not match.

 

If you want to do the minimal, drain the oil and drop the pan.  Clean out the sludge (which there will be).   Put some oil in each cylinder thru the spark plug hole.  From underneath, Wipe the cylinder with oil  and feel how the cylinder walls feel.  This will give it some corrosion protection and lubrication.   You should be able to wipe each cylinder wall when they are on TDC.    

 

The old pan gasket will likely fall off in pieces.  Remove all the old gasket material.  Just get some RTV and make a temporary pan seal so you can put the pan back on if you are just wanting to see how it will run.   Personally I would order a new pan gasket from Olsons Gaskets.  The pan gasket is not that difficult to replace.

Add fresh oil.  Be sure to clean up the valves - I think you can remove the valve cages.  Lubricate the rocker arms.     

I can tell you if it were my car, I would disassemble the engine, but some people are willing to assume a little more risk.       

 

There is only 1 wire in the braided cable on the end of the steering shaft.  That is for the horn wire.  

Hugh 

 

 

Thanks Hugh, I will order new gaskets. 
I will take better pictures of the engine in the morning, I am finding things are “hillbilly fixed” on this car. I think through the years, different owners cut and hacked but not a lot was done properly. This is the reason I am having doubts about the correct year. When I looked up the number that’s on the tag, I came up with a 4 cyl.  
  

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7 hours ago, Oregon Desert model 45 said:

It is a 6 cylinder motor right ? 

1922 6 cylinder serial numbers start with 753000. 

1923 6 cylinder serial numbers start with 879623

 

serials.jpg

Yes, it is a 6 cylinder. There is a number stamped on the housing under the cowl but I think it’s just a stock number.  The only tag I can find is on the outside of the body in the rear just above the gas tank.  

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Just FYI on the engine #
 

At some point in 1923 Buick went to the engine number tag on the engine.  Earlier 1923s still had the engine number stamped into the aluminum crankcase. 
 

It may have happened around the 1 million chassis number as I am just shy of 1M for both of my #s and my engine is stamped. 
 

Also while I’m at it, at chassis # 1M Buick moved the rear tail lamp from left of center to centered within the rear spare.  This has been well documented. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

All right sorry guys I’ve been sick but here’s pictures of the motor itselfAll right sorry guys I’ve been sick but here’s pictures of the motor itself. 
The first picture I can’t quite make the numbers out, The rest are just pictures that may or may not help.

C4F2800A-DC8F-4235-B492-7D696F102329.jpeg

E91FEFF6-D069-43E9-9B53-87A85B8EBABD.jpeg

945547B9-7B1A-4AB6-B389-8043605410DA.jpeg

E81F91FA-AD7F-471C-A26F-0ECC7265B561.jpeg

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On 3/28/2021 at 8:02 AM, Mark Kikta said:

The ID plate attached on the frame above the gas tank is correct for 1922.  Here is a picture of my 1922 model 45 when I found it

1922 Buick serial number.jpg

Great !! Thank you.  

On 3/28/2021 at 5:32 AM, Morgan Wright said:

I have a steering wheel assembly but its for 1918, if you want let me know

Would that be compatible with the 22?  

On 3/27/2021 at 4:58 PM, Oregon Desert model 45 said:

It is a 6 cylinder motor right ? 

1922 6 cylinder serial numbers start with 753000. 

1923 6 cylinder serial numbers start with 879623

 

serials.jpg

Thank you, it is definitely a 22. 

On 3/28/2021 at 11:10 AM, Brian_Heil said:

Just FYI on the engine #
 

At some point in 1923 Buick went to the engine number tag on the engine.  Earlier 1923s still had the engine number stamped into the aluminum crankcase. 
 

It may have happened around the 1 million chassis number as I am just shy of 1M for both of my #s and my engine is stamped. 
 

Also while I’m at it, at chassis # 1M Buick moved the rear tail lamp from left of center to centered within the rear spare.  This has been well documented. 

Was the taillight attached to the tire mount? I don’t see any where something could have been mounted on the tub.  

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On 3/28/2021 at 5:32 AM, Morgan Wright said:

I have a steering wheel assembly but its for 1918, if you want let me know

Where are you located?

On 4/17/2021 at 7:54 PM, dibarlaw said:

Grecore:

The 3 holes to the left side of the center license plate bar of the spare tire carier is where the tail light mounts.

I don’t think I have that bar, I only have the carrier for the spare tire.  

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1 hour ago, Greacore said:

Where are you located?

I don’t think I have that bar, I only have the carrier for the spare tire.  

Yes you do. It's in the picture, The center bar in the spare tire rack.

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Dave,

    The big circle on the left end of the spare tire cross bar is for the electrical wires to the tail lamp.  The 2 little holes are for the light mounting bolts.  The slots are for the license plate.  This link should help you.    You are also missing the Buick tail logo.  If you just want something to work, there is a model T tail light that is very similar to the one that Buick used.  The red lens is held in with a snap wire.  You can grind holes for light passage to the license plate and the Buick logo.  The glass cup could be added internally to the light fixture to make if work like an original tail light.  The Buick Logo is available from Bobs Automotive.  You can cut the logo mounting bracket from a piece of metal.  Sometimes these parts appear on Ebay as well.     Hugh

 

 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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18 hours ago, Rod Wise said:

Dave,

image.jpg.4663ba0f56f505b5d692fc5614e38400.jpg

Thank you !!

19 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Dave,

    The big circle on the left end of the spare tire cross bar is for the electrical wires to the tail lamp.  The 2 little holes are for the light mounting bolts.  The slots are for the license plate.  This link should help you.    You are also missing the Buick tail logo.  If you just want something to work, there is a model T tail light that is very similar to the one that Buick used.  The red lens is held in with a snap wire.  You can grind holes for light passage to the license plate and the Buick logo.  The glass cup could be added internally to the light fixture to make if work like an original tail light.  The Buick Logo is available from Bobs Automotive.  You can cut the logo mounting bracket from a piece of metal.  Sometimes these parts appear on Ebay as well.     Hugh

 

 

Thank you !!

10 hours ago, Mark Kikta said:

Here is the tail light on my 1922 Buick with the added STOP light and LED blinkers

!cid_4f9386b2-6221-4b47-aac1-68274924dece@namprd10_prod_outlook.jpg

Are the turn signals optional? 

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On 4/19/2021 at 8:04 PM, Greacore said:

 

Are the turn signals optional? 

 

 

Turn signals were not an option for 1922. They were first offered by Buick in 1939, and Buick was the first in the world to offer them. In 1922, all you got was tail lights. No brake lights, hazard signals, nothing. In 1922, you were on the road with horses, which had no lights at all.

 

When I say Buick offered them, I mean they were standard, not really "offered". Rear turn signals in 1939, front and rear in 1940.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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Dave, 

       What you need to think about.  1922 was a tail light only.  The bulb had 2 opposing pins.  The minimum you want to add is a dual filament into the brake light housing, or add a separate red lamp for the brake light.  If you go the route of a dual filament, you have to make some modifications to install a dual wire plug in, and dual filament bulbs have offset pins so you either need to remove a pin or modify the pin slots.  Then the dual filaments are taller than single filaments, so other changes may be necessary.  You will also want to add a brake switch under the car.  Attached are a couple links to help you think thru what you may want to do.      Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337485-brake-light-installation-mid-20s-buick/?tab=comments#comment-1968834

  

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337486-turn-signal-addition/?tab=comments#comment-1969695

 

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Hugh:

 The 1158 bulbs are parallel opposing pins. That is what I used to convert my tail light. They are position sensitive . The bulbs are marked TOP on the shell. I went to a Model A supplier to get a brake light switch. All less than $10.00.

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Hugh:

Same as you. The 1157 is so available that is why I spent an inordinate amount of time converting my 1937s licence plate/tail light to dual filament. I wanted an upper brake light. DSCF8418.JPG.3c058039079220d382a9d0ce5b1920b8.JPG

I remade the socket for this and had to make a spacer so I could get the too tall 1157 to work.

DSCF8396.JPG.df6e3ea2a48191b8e64e2f0d5a7214d6.JPG  DSCF8398.JPG.12ae77f4bb275248166fd2cb531de596.JPG

An 1158 would have saved me half the work. Unfortunately 1158 is more difficult to find.

DSCF8447.JPG.06a682dcfa40cf8667bf4b572ea25e58.JPG  

Objective being that the arangement could be returned to original.

DSCF5656.JPG.66b1796136cf6ce0c61692b674e3c156.JPG 

When I got the Master it had a period accessory STOP light.

 1632612930_DSCF5785(1024x768).jpg.2215b17b5145267416b38ce6519df4f3.jpg   DSCF5801.JPG.63cc3dbe2fa208dea05fb49570219894.JPG

I had to rebuild the original tail light from several doner units. Then reinstalled the restored STOP light.

DSCF5800.JPG.2cf2d2d98030bc109691cb0e65cf2c2d.JPG

 

 

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On 4/19/2021 at 7:37 PM, Morgan Wright said:

 

 

Turn signals were not an option for 1922. They were first offered by Buick in 1939, and Buick was the first in the world to offer them. In 1922, all you got was tail lights. No brake lights, hazard signals, nothing. In 1922, you were on the road with horses, which had no lights at all.

 

When I say Buick offered them, I mean they were standard, not really "offered". Rear turn signals in 1939, front and rear in 1940.

This made my day.  I smiled quite a bit after reading.  I just have to figure the “best” configuration for signals and stop lamp.  I like the way Mark Kiktas looks.  I think I’ll look into that one.  I do live in a rural area, horses still don’t come equipped with lights.  

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#1158 parallel-pin bulbs are used on my 1948 Jeepster and probably later through their 6V era.  I've never had problems finding #1158s at swap meets.  The #1157 (staggered-pin) and #1158 (parallel-pin) are "3/21," meaning all of 3 candlepower for taillight and 21 cp for stoplight.  The repro Ford parts place Bob Drake, and probably repro Chev parts vendors like Chevs of the Forties, offer high-output versions that are 14 cp tail and 50 cp stop/turn for about $3.50 each.  My experience is that the high output versions are made offshore and have quality control issues (I had one whose filaments were out of register from the contacts and another whose globe twisted off during insertion) but the light output is a major, major improvement over 3/21 cp.  Accordingly, if you order, buy twice as many as you actually need.  The Bob Drake site doesn't mention #1157 or #1158 but goes by pin arrangement and output--and by Ford part number.

 

As for "TOP" marked on bulb, I've never seen that.  You have a 50% chance of getting it right the first time with parallel-pin bulbs.  Just don't install the lens until you actuate the lights to see if you have it right.

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Grimy:

 After several burn outs of the 21 cp filament I rechecked all my connectonns and voltages and saw that these were position marked. I had to exchange the wire position and now top is on top.

 It is just that this is my last 1158 and hope this one lasts. I will be on my search the next swap meet.

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On 3/27/2021 at 1:00 PM, Greacore said:

Hello,  I’m Dave, I am in SE Wisconsin. 

C3D978A3-CC0F-4303-9630-C1DA5DCB0027.jpeg

 

 

 

 

The complete steering wheel assembly should look like this. This is 1918, but they were the same for 1922.

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DSCN3871.JPG

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These are the parts I have. The short ones are the sector spark levers, long one is sector throttle lever, and some sector brackets. Plastic button on the spark lever is the horn button. The gears attach to the bottoms of the spark and throttle tubes. I don't know what shape your steering column is in, those tubes should all be telescoping inside each other. There are 5 tubes, from outside to inside they are 1. case 2. steering 3. stationary 4. throttle 5. spark.

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DSCN3873.JPG

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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