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1933 plymouth pd door handle repair


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On my 4 door sedan, two of the four outside handles will not return up unless it's manually lifted. The other two need a slight lift and the they raise up with the spring. All four doors are covered on the inside. Before i start taking things apart i wanted to figure out how the inside handles are released. Since there are no exposed screws on the fabric, i assume they have some type of push snap to hold it to the door?  

 

I searched but was unable to find any posts regarding the removal of door panels and handles. 

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated so i can get these door latches corrected without breaking anything. 

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I have a couple of 34s and some 33 doors and I believe they all come apart the same.  Outside handles are held on by the two screws on the outside of the car.  The inside handles are held on by a cross pin through the shaft on the inside.  Need to press the inside escutcheon plate in far enough so the pin can be seen and then simply push it out.  This is difficult sometimes due to the type of upholstery in place--if it is too thick it is hard to push the escutcheon plate in far enough to clear the pin.  There are tools made for this that work quite well, see internet/ebay.  33 door doesn't have vent windows, but if that is what you have those handles come off with a visible set screw, the escutcheon is simply held on with the handle.  The door card/panel is held in place by the window garnish, which is easy to remove by taking out the visible screws.  The panel itself is held in along the sides and bottom with clips--simply slide a putty knife or screwdriver into the edge and pry out.  Try to keep your pry device immediately adjacent to the clips--if you get too far away from it and the clip is being stubborn, you can risk punching through the door card.  The bottom edge is also held on by clips but there should be a sheet rubber gasket along the bottom as a draft stop.  Same approach with the clips.  If you need to take the door lever machinery apart, that is all held on with screws that are obvious once the door card is off.  The door latch itself, which may be the source of the problem, is removed by screws visible in the door jamb. Have fun.

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Thanks Scott. With your info i was able to remove the panel easy enough. 

20210326_151405.thumb.jpg.55878905a1ab7fa9382f55070f24540a.jpg

 

I realize what the have fun refers to 😄.

Now i have to shrink my hands to work this assembly out. Any tricks to it?

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I guess I would try to find out why the handles are not returning to full up first.  They are only connected to the inside handle by a flat bar and a bell crank, so I don't think those would be the problem.  I have taken the inside handle posts off before and that is easy, very accessible.  If you are in there you might want to check the springs which 'lock' the inside handles, those are notorious for breaking/wearing out and are easily replaced.  My guess is that the problem is in the door latch itself, which is what the shaft from the outside handle goes directly into.  If the square bushing that it goes into is worn out, then you probably will have to remove the latch assembly and repair/replace.  I would first loosen, but not remove, the screw heads in the door jamb that hold the assembly in place and shoot it full of your favorite 'loosener', be it WD40 or Kroil. Grab the tongue of the latch and make sure it is not 'cocked' in the hole and hanging up.  Work the assembly with the handle to make sure everything is working.  If that doesn't fix it, my recollection is that there is a spring in the assembly that accomplishes the 'return' of the tongue and handle.  That may be broken or simply worn out.  Don't have one in front of me right now but I seem to recall such an assembly.  No removal 'tricks' that I can recall offhand but I assume that you should run the window all the way up so that the track and arms are clear of the latch.  Lock is in the handle assembly so no need to remove the separate lock assembly in the door like on the 34.  Make sure your tetanus shots are up to date and dive in.  SMB

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Lol Scott couldn't tell if I've ever had a tetanus shot before.

 

On this passenger front door the interior handle when used returns via spring with no issue. I know the lock spring is broken as it has no resistance when moved in to or out of the locked position. The two back doors lock spring still work. 

 

Since the inside handle returns that make me think it's on the outside handle part or latch. I soaked the internal parts with some pb blaster and I'll let it soak overnight. Things have freed up but not working as it should. 

 

As this handle has a keyed lock and i don't have the key,  is there a certain way it has to be removed?

 

Thanks again for the guidance!

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That locking handle will come out with some wiggling. The shaft is square and it goes thru more than one hole, wiggle the inside handle turning back and forth a bit and it will eventually come out.

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OK, here is a series of photos of a 34 door latch taken from the driver's side, front, which should be about the same as your 33 since it does not have the outside door lock components that are on the passenger side 34.  You can see the square hole where the handle shaft comes in from the outside.  As I suggested and as Jack M noted, some wiggling of the handle, coupled with some WD40, should remove the outside handle once you remove the two outside screws.  On the latch assembly, you can see all of the 'wear' points which would drag and restrict the shaft returning to the full 'up' position.  What is most likely source, however, is that the curlicue return spring you can see in the picture is either worn out or broken.  Easy to replace, clean and lube the entire assembly and you should be good to go.  These springs are available almost everywhere, ebay, Mopar part sellers, etc.

20210327_104401.jpg

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2021 at 6:06 PM, Crazyred said:

As this handle has a keyed lock and i don't have the key,  is there a certain way it has to be removed?

The keyed locking outside handle has an internal "theft protection feature".  Meaning that if a car thief took the 2 outer screws out to then try to unlock that door, the handle still won't turn, and the handle cannot be removed because it's in the locked position.

 

On most cars, you need rotate the unlocked outer handle about 45 degrees, then it will pull straight out.  Sometimes takes wiggling like was mentioned, but still needs to be turned about 45 degrees first. 

 

The theft deterrent comes from a thief not being able to turn it 45 because the handle/latch is locked and won't turn.

 

.

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. 

 

I was finally able to remove the front passengers assembly.  I did have to wiggle the outside handle in order to remove it from the assembly.  Once removed I was able to determine that the latch assembly needed cleaning and a thorough oiling.  This freed up the handle in order to return to the up position on its on.  In order to make the re-installation on the door easier, I did remove the window gear assembly.  This proves to be a much easier way to remove and install the latch assembly if your glass is not glued in.  Fortunately mine is held in with a canvas material.  

 

The rear passenger latch assembly needed a good oiling once I removed the door panel.  I was not able to figure out how to remove the assembly since the window track was blocking the removal.  Either way, after oiling it now operates as it should.  So now on to the drivers side this week as time allows. 

 

Now I need to order the lock springs for two doors and also figure out how to get the keyed locking door handle working.  It appears that the key hole outside disc maybe chromed plated to the handle!?!:(

 

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21 minutes ago, Crazyred said:

Are these the correct remote handle lock springs?  I am always leery of ebay

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-1940-Dodge-Chrysler-Plymouth-Desoto-Door-Lock-Latch-Remote-Springs/393183827610

 

I didn't see anything on Andy's site so I'm looking elsewhere.

They look about right. The price has gone up quite a bit since I bought mine decades ago.

 

For what it is worth, I could not figure out how to install the springs without disassembling the "remote control" which entails bending the tabs that hold the side plates together. And that material was designed to have the tabs bent only once when it was assembled in the factory. I was careful/lucky and didn't break any of the tabs off. I could have just been blind and there is a way to install those spring without disassembly so check first. But if you do resort to bending the tabs and disassembling, take your time and be careful.

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Thanks Ply!  I'll order these and give an update once I get them installed.  Hopefully it goes well like your installation.  

 

I have the keyed handle and ignition switch at a locksmith hoping they can get them working and rekeyed. 

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1 hour ago, knobless said:

Have replacement spring “ Keepers” if you break yours 

changing the handle springs

I wish those existed back in the 1990s when I did mine. Or perhaps I should say, I wish I'd known about a source for them when I did mine back in the 1990s.

 

Anyway, I was lucky and able to reuse the originals.

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7 hours ago, ply33 said:

I wish those existed back in the 1990s when I did mine. Or perhaps I should say, I wish I'd known about a source for them when I did mine back in the 1990s.

 

Anyway, I was lucky and able to reuse the originals.

No one has them That’s why I reproduced them, in 2019

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Thanks Knobless for letting me know.

 

I received the springs early and was able to install them.  Since I was afraid of breaking the tabs on the keepers (now I know about knobless stash) I modified the spring some what.  Looking at how it installs I slightly bent the straight portion of the spring that locks into the keeper.  I was able to give it enough angle and then place it into position and carefully using channel lock pliers pushed up and with the spring flexing it slide through the keeper slot and into position.  This worked fine for the drivers door but not so well on the passengers door.  On the passengers door it over flexed or sprung the spring.  The spring was then too loose and did not provide enough tension for the locked position.  So then I decided to take the keeper off very carefully.  Once I removed the tabs on just one side I had enough working room to remove the spring.  I reshaped the spring, reinstalled it into the keeper and carefully bent the tabs back successfully.  Both doors now operate as they should. 

 

Again, I REALLY APPRECIATE everyone's help!  This forum helps ease the angst when diving into the unknown.

 

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While I was freeing up the door latches I found two pieces of rubber (one in each front door) laying in the bottom, that I have no clue what they are to be used for.  Also, I have a broken window bump stop that I am looking for a place to buy it from.  Any idea on the flat piece and cylindrical hardened rubber piece might be used for and are they needed?  Who might sell these three pieces?

 

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20210404_092854.thumb.jpg.6dcffeba3d464af160b1057fdb5bf7fa.jpg

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I will give Andy B a call to see if they carry these rubber pieces.

 

I have another dilemma now.  I took my keyed exterior handle and ignition to two different local locksmiths and neither one had the know how to rekey these.  Does anyone know of a locksmith in the Houston area that could handle this?  What have other's done in order to get the keyed handle usable so they can lock up the car? 

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21 hours ago, Crazyred said:

I will give Andy B a call to see if they carry these rubber pieces.

 

I have another dilemma now.  I took my keyed exterior handle and ignition to two different local locksmiths and neither one had the know how to rekey these.  Does anyone know of a locksmith in the Houston area that could handle this?  What have other's done in order to get the keyed handle usable so they can lock up the car? 

Already been there,,,,has to be someone, somewhere 

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On the keyed handle, although you seem to have done some of this, look for the oldest lock and key place you can find, usually in the 'old part of town'.  Those folks typically have the staff that have been around long enough to have seen it all.  Not in your area but what I found was ABC Lock & Key in San Diego (CA, not Texas) where I am located.  They were able to re-key an outside locking handle for my 34 Dodge panel, which has basically the same lock as your 33.  They also were able to re-key some 34 Plymouth Yale Omega 'bent key' locks, even had a couple of boxes of uncut keys on their wall, which has key blanks going back into the teens.  These guys are fantastic but are getting old and last time I went by there the store was closed (but still there and stocked).  Must be somebody like that in Texas. 

 https://www.yelp.com/biz/a-b-c-lock-and-key-shop-san-diego 

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