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Mystery V4 Engine with duel magnetos


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This interesting V4, with double magneto and 1 spark plug for each cilinder, the other two spark plugs may be closing water ports. Size roughly 600 x 600 x 600 mm. The alloy valvegear covers give a modernish look to the concept. Early twenties? We wouldn't be surprised if it's a boat engine but that's only gut feeling. I gladly leave this all to you experts out there.  Maybe European made.

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Looks industrial to me. I agree Smokestack is the place to determine it’s origin. Maybe a boat?

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I recall a Ford V4 in a boat, much later than the engine in question.

1960s would be my best recall estimate. I seem to remember it being a push rod engine.

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30 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It’s a four stroke..........

 

31 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It’s a four stroke..........

Yes.  It is an ioe (inlet over exhaust) engine.  Two magnetos each firing four spark plugs.

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2 minutes ago, nzcarnerd said:

Have you had one of those alloy covers off? Wondering if it has atmospheric (suction type) inlet valves.

Push rods for the inlet valves can be seen.

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20 minutes ago, dictator27 said:

Push rods for the inlet valves can be seen.

 

So I guess it must have three camshafts? One in the middle for the inlets and one each side for the exhausts.

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Check the fasteners ( nuts and bolts) and other dimensions (not the spark plugs) to see what standard they are made to.

Generally:

British               Whitworth

American           Imperial

European           Metric

 

Crankcase mounting and smaller diameter flywheel are typical marine.

Magneto location and drive is commonly European.

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6 minutes ago, Layden B said:

Check the fasteners ( nuts and bolts) and other dimensions (not the spark plugs) to see what standard they are made to.

Generally:

British               Whitworth

American           Imperial

European           Metric

 

Crankcase mounting and smaller diameter flywheel are typical marine.

Magneto location and drive is commonly European.


 

Could also be USS...........mid America rust belt. And they made a bunch of marine stuff.

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1 hour ago, dictator27 said:

 

Yes.  It is an ioe (inlet over exhaust) engine.  Two magnetos each firing four spark plugs.

 

Commonly called an 'F' head. One set of valves low alongside the cylinder, and one set of valves over the cylinder. The inlet isn't exactly over the exhaust, it is moved to the other side of the cylinder by the rocker arms that actuate the inlet valves. 'F' head engines were fairly common on cars and other uses in the 1910s and 1920s. It was a medium grade improvement over 'T' head and 'L' head engines, less costly than 'T' head and 'ohv' engines, with better breathing than 'L' head engines and better compression than a 'T' head engine. Reo in the mid 1910s and early 1920s and many Essex cars of the 1920s were famous for their 'F' head engines!

I haven't ever seen many 'V' anything 'F' head engines (except for a few V-twin motorcycles?), so quite unusual. It certainly is intriguing! Whatever it was used for.

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Thinking along the Marine engine line of thought:

In the marine engine world there were only a handful of manufactures building V style engines which really didn't start appearing until the late 1920's and early 30's and then, with the exception of Scripps, Packard and a few high end makes were mostly automobile conversions. With that said it appears to be similar to the  "Barber Twin" marine engine marketed by the King Bros. of Syracuse, New York. You can see the mounting and position of the magneto is the same as well as some other details. Barber started in 1914 and eventually developed a comprehensive line of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 cylinder two strokes. Around 1926 King Brothers took over the operation and introduced the four stroke V style. In a limited search I did not find any evidence that they ever produced a V4 but that doesn't mean they didn't.

 

681121966_BarberTwin.jpg.40eedbd57ad389bec7524fcf47782e99.jpg

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Another thing to consider, although it most likely will lead nowhere? Is that those valve covers, which obviously fit that block perfectly and belong there, look an awful lot like the valve covers for a 1920s variation of the Rajo model A four valve head manufactured to boost he power of a model T Ford engine (earlier Rajo model A heads had no covers over the rocker arms). The Rajo model A head converted the model T engine into an 'F' head engine, and boosted the power considerably, but not as much as the later 'B' and 'C' series eight valve heads did.

There is a remote possibility (actually somewhat unlikely?) that there could be a commonality in manufacturer there. A lot of foundries and machine shops did work for numerous manufacturers. If you could find someone that has a Rajo model A head with the covers, comparing the covers could tell something? Or not?

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2 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

Another thing to consider, although it most likely will lead nowhere? Is that those valve covers, which obviously fit that block perfectly and belong there, look an awful lot like the valve covers for a 1920s variation of the Rajo model A four valve head manufactured to boost he power of a model T Ford engine (earlier Rajo model A heads had no covers over the rocker arms). The Rajo model A head converted the model T engine into an 'F' head engine, and boosted the power considerably, but not as much as the later 'B' and 'C' series eight valve heads did.

There is a remote possibility (actually somewhat unlikely?) that there could be a commonality in manufacturer there. A lot of foundries and machine shops did work for numerous manufacturers. If you could find someone that has a Rajo model A head with the covers, comparing the covers could tell something? Or not?

 

 

Also a very similar set up on the OHV conversion kits made by Elva sports cars for early post war, English Ford side valves.

Greg

 

 

Lotus 11 Sports Series 1 Graham Hill's Yellow Peril | THE SPORTS CAR  ONE-THIRTY-TWO SCRATCHBUILD FORUM

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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From looking at the photos the location is Europe - clues in the odd words of labels etc in the background.

7 hours ago, Layden B said:

Check the fasteners ( nuts and bolts) and other dimensions (not the spark plugs) to see what standard they are made to.

Generally:

British               Whitworth

American           Imperial

European           Metric

 

Crankcase mounting and smaller diameter flywheel are typical marine.

Magneto location and drive is commonly European.

 

I had a 1915 Fiat 2B project many years ago and the threads on the engine were Whitworth.

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Dual mags were used on some high performance cars and some racing engines, not just aircraft engines.  My Bentley flies down the road but doesn't fly in the air, it is equipped with two mags that fire both plugs at the same time.  Looks like this two cylinder engine uses two mags to overcome the V configuration problem.

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