Newer vehicle enthusiasms

[plymouthcranbrook]

The end

Edited March 15, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)

[erichill]

I don't think that is unusual. many cars today do their job well and without any fuss or special attention on our part. Unless there is something unusual like performance or luxury I think a lot of us feel like we are just driving a well oiled appliance.  When our Hobby cars that we do feel attached to were new most people driving them probably felt the same way we do about modern cars.  It was a vehicle to get places.  But I sure get what you mean.  I love my Frontier and all it does without any fuss, but I wont be giving it a name any time soon.

[BobinVirginia]

@plymouthcranbrook

I understand that completely. I’m 44 and grew up with conventional rear drive cars. That and old square body chevy trucks and you always felt in tune with different vehicles. They have some individual character for sure. New cars very much feel like a plastic consumer appliance to be thrown away. The last newer car I had (also my only foreign car) that felt spirited was a 2000 328CI Bmw that was a straight 6, manual trans and rear drive car. Quality built and the best handler I’ve had. But a front wheel drive from the same era just felt like junk. The only front drive non V8 we have is my wife’s car. 
 

I know cars are safer and more efficient nowadays but life is short. Drive whatever makes you happy. For me, I certainly feel more connected to the older more manual analog cars for sure. 

 

[John348]

I have been buying a new car for my wife every four years and one for myself every five years since 1988, and never had any attachment to any of them, just appliance to get to and from, and I traded them all in before the problems start. I never had a connection to any of them, I will admit that every new car was better then the one I traded in.

Edited March 5, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

56 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I was thinking the other day(I know, dangerous) and realized as I was driving my Chevy Traverse  down the road that I really, for the first time I can remember, did not feel any attachment to the car at all. It was like I was driving the refrigerator down the road. Ever since I began driving about 100 years ago I always felt, even on cars I did’t particularly care for, a sense of oh, I don’t  know,  oneness with the car.  I always enjoyed driving darn near anything and still enjoy the heck out of the old Plymouths.  But this one and to a lessor extent my wife’s Kia Soul, not so much. Anyone else like me or is this just another case of my being odd?

 

This is the exact problem with newer cars - they are transportation appliances. This is also why both daily drivers are 35 years old, and those are the newest cars we own.

 

[motoringicons]

I remember whenever a neighbor bought a new car, the whole neighborhood would be at his house to "inspect" the new car and make comments. 

 

That might happen nowadays if you bring home a vintage car, but I don't think it ever happens with a new car. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

34 minutes ago, motoringicons said:

I remember whenever a neighbor bought a new car, the whole neighborhood would be at his house to "inspect" the new car and make comments. 

 

That might happen nowadays if you bring home a vintage car, but I don't think it ever happens with a new car. 

I’ve got some Joneses type neighbors that are concerned with “new” vehicles. I laugh because they don’t understand new isn’t always better or valuable even if the appearance is up to date. 
 

Nobody pays attention to the plastic Lexus but man, when my 62 Impala and friends show up somewhere they notice 

[BobinVirginia]

I’ve had my Impala since I was 19 and you could say I’m in tune and connected with it. 

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, BobinVirginia said:

I’ve got some Joneses type neighbors that are concerned with “new” vehicles. I laugh because they don’t understand new isn’t always better or valuable even if the appearance is up to date. 
 

Nobody pays attention to the plastic Lexus but man, when my 62 Impala and friends show up somewhere they notice 

I see what you mean;

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

It was like I was driving the refrigerator down the road. 

Like this?

 

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, BobinVirginia said:

I’ve got some Joneses type neighbors that are concerned with “new” vehicles. I laugh because they don’t understand new isn’t always better or valuable even if the appearance is up to date. 

 

How can they tell when their vehicle is "new" when there's little to no change from one model year to another? Most times I can barely tell you what brand a vehicle is much less what year it is.

 

Boring cars in boring colors with boring interiors are enough to drive people who appreciate cars to drink! Or worse...

[TTR]

Is it just me or does it feel like some here have been reading too many of my comments about modern “appliances” ? 😉

 

Only thing I can add is that 30 years ago I found just about all vehicles less than 20 years old uninteresting.. 
Now that includes almost everything that’s 40-50 years old.

 

And now I can appreciate “kids” enjoying modifying their later model “rides”, but 30 years ago I thought something like was absolute waste of time and effort. Go figure.

[John_S_in_Penna]

12 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I always enjoyed driving darn near anything and still enjoy the heck out of the old Plymouths.

But this one and to a lessor extent my wife’s Kia Soul, not so much. 

 

This will be an interesting topic, Plymouth Cranbrook.

I pretty much agree with others:  Today's cars have no Soul.

 

I have some old color and upholstery albums, such as for

my 1978 Lincoln Mark V.  It's fun to pick out combinations

for cars as if I were a buyer back then--so many combinations

of paints, molding colors, vinyl roof colors, vinyl roof styles,

velour or leather upholstery.  A person's car could be his own.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I wonder whether this lack of interest existed in

any earlier decades.  Back in the 1920's, did people

say, "Today's cars all look alike!  Give me back my

1914 Hupmobile!"  Back in the late 1930's, did

people say, "Today's paints are all dark and bland.

I wish I were back in the Roaring '20's!"

 

It would be interesting to find some old articles

that gave customers' views of their era's new cars.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[8E45E]

10 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

It would be interesting to find some old articles

that gave customers' views of their era's new cars.

 

Look for older copies of Popular Science magazine.  They had their regular 'Owner's Reports'  in the 1950's, '60's, and 1970's.  Not sure how early it started, but some of the owner's comments of the day were interesting to say the least!

 

Craig

[joe_padavano]

55 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I wonder whether this lack of interest existed in

any earlier decades. 

 

Of course it did. The comments about electric cars reminds me of the comments that flathead fans made about those new-fangled and overly-complex OHV motors. And in 60s my dad would constantly complain about how the (then) new cars were so "tinny" (his word) compared to older cars. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[BobinVirginia]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I wonder whether this lack of interest existed in

any earlier decades.  Back in the 1920's, did people

say, "Today's cars all look alike!  Give me back my

1914 Hupmobile!"  Back in the late 1930's, did

people say, "Today's paints are all dark and bland.

I wish I were back in the Roaring '20's!"

 

It would be interesting to find some old articles

that gave customers' views of their era's new cars.

 

Very true! Are we just in a cyclical trend that’s played out multiple times? 
I suppose every generation has that lack of interest for a certain thing? 
 

Interesting to think about and a great discussion! 

Edited March 5, 2021 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Perhaps too we are looking at the quality of materials - the majority of things now being made out of plastic, which is hard to repair if it cracks or breaks. Cars 70+ years ago were made of heavier steel, before that brass, bronze and wood were  used and before materials were invented to resemble the real stuff. Vynil decal replaced painted wood gran, which replaced real wood. Things look like they have quality but deep down we know it is not real. 

Think about modern home and building construction - Vynil siding rather then wood shingles or imitation brick and stone surface treatment to look like the real thing. Concrete colored to resemble slate or stone, Vynil decks to replace wood or stone . Even in the 1930s - the wood steering wheel rims were replaced by cast metal or plastic cast onto a steel ring. PROGRESS - but some progress perhaps is not what one thinks of when it comes to quality since it is trying to imitate the way something looks or is durable . This is not a judgement call just an observation.

[Rusty_OToole]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

Look for older copies of Popular Science magazine.  They had their regular 'Owner's Reports'  in the 1950's, '60's, and 1970's.  Not sure how early it started, but some of the owner's comments of the day were interesting to say the least!

 

Craig

My favorite was a comment in an owner's report on the 1960 Studebaker Lark. One owner said he wanted a smaller, more economical car but did not want to class himself with the foreign car drivers with their black rimmed glasses and screwball hats.

[8E45E]

5 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Perhaps too we are looking at the quality of materials - the majority of things now being made out of plastic, which is hard to repair if it cracks or breaks. Cars 70+ years ago were made of heavier steel, before that brass, bronze and wood were  used and before materials were invented to resemble the real stuff. Vynil decal replaced painted wood gran, which replaced real wood. Things look like they have quality but deep down we know it is not real. 

It went the other direction as well. 

 

In the 1950's and '60, textured cardboard was being used rather extensively for door panels, headliner, and kick panels on some of the less expensive cars, or the lower trim line cars.  It did not take long for that carboard to wrinkle once it got wet.  Modern plastics did not do that, thankfully.

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

I have never really though about being attached to a car, although I seem to keep them forever so in a sense I suppose I am. If I find something I like I stick with it.  My current truck, DD is a 2006, my wife drives a 2003, my motorcycle is a 2001,etc. Although I did get her a new car a few years ago that she calls 'Baby' so you get an idea how she feels about that one!  Other than my bike or my trans am (or the convertible mustang on a sunny day when my wife lets me), I dont really get 'excited' about driving anything anymore.

[BobinVirginia]

Reading through all of this I’ve determined something. We all appreciate the ease of use concerning new cars and we appreciate different things about cars of all ages. 
 

I’m a big fan of early sixties super stock factory race cars. Many friends my age think they’re just big boats! Lol

I’m not a big fan of some of their fox body mustangs we grew up with either. I guess that I don’t pay attention to some vehicles while others might. That’s the beauty of there being so many different cars. If we all liked the same thing there just wouldn’t be enough of them for us to enjoy. 
 

Good topic of discussion for sure! 
Keep having fun with whatever you like I say! 

[1912Staver]

As cars get newer they do get better,.., from certain viewpoints. Fuel mileage and overall dependability , yes. And if you spend enough , quite high performance. But this is all at the price of a very complex electronics and mechanical specification . Very good cars for perhaps 15 years, but as they age and things start to fail a very complex troubleshooting and repair proposition. Perhaps the pinnacle of programed obsolescence.

 Older vehicles might not squeeze as many miles from a gallon of gas or as many BHP from a Litre of displacement. But they are generally reasonably easy to understand, diagnose and repair. And they are simple enough that in most cases the parts to keep them running are still reasonably cheap and available even though we might be talking about a 50 year or more old machine.

 Try finding a working computer or even more obscure, minor but essential electronic part for an up model Lexus when it is 50 or 60 years old. Might be a bit more of a challenge than points for a 58 Impala.

 

Greg

 

 

[rocketraider]

15 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

We all appreciate the ease of use concerning new cars

Until the damned thing breaks and the factory service people have no idea how to fix it!

 

Technology's great until it ain't. At that point it becomes a burden.

[BobinVirginia]

Just now, rocketraider said:

Until the damned thing breaks and the factory service people have no idea how to fix it!

 

Technology's great until it ain't. At that point it becomes a burden.

I have a friend with a Tesla model S and he ran into an issue like that. 
Had to take the car three hours away to find a technician that could fix it.

 

What headache! 

[BobinVirginia]

@1912Staver

I hadn’t thought about tracking down those types of parts in the future. That’ll truly be hard for anyone interested in the cars of today. 
Instead of casting and machining obsolete parts I guess folks will be making obsolete ECM’s and Sensors? 
 

[pont35cpe]

My daily driver is a 1982 S10 Tahoe, first year of production, i bought new on Dec. 18, 1981, and haven`t had a car payment since 1984, it has over 900,000mi on it now. I just did a complete engine/drive-train/suspension upgrade, rides and drives like a new one again. I`m riding with this truck to the end. I have no desire for one of today`s throw away cars, no matter how "smart" they are. Over the years i put my "new car money" into IRA`s and retired at 60. Now i tinker with my older old cars.

 

[Matt Harwood]

Everyone seems to have forgotten that all the old cars we love were once new cars with their own service issues and scarce parts and reliability problems. Designs that people love today (Airflow? Edsel?) were universally reviled when they were new. Far more new cars back then had far more reliability issues than new cars today. Think about it--you take a road trip in your old car, you check tire pressures and fluid levels and tweak everything to make sure it's as good as it can be, you pack tools and spare parts in the trunk (not you, Ed), and you drive gently and avoid highways. You try to plan for good weather and cancel plans if the weather is too inclement. But if you take a road trip in your modern car and you simply get in and drive to the destination, regardless of distance, weather, or speeds. I would argue that if we maintained our modern cars the way we fanatically maintain our old cars, they, too, would last forever. And if you're complaining about parts scarcity or the difficulty in finding an expert to service a modern car, have you been asleep the whole time you've owned a collector car? People send their cars across the country or around the world to have them serviced by experts. Parts are often impossible to find. Old cars aren't magically better in any of these categories and are often demonstrably far worse.

 

Believe it or not, there are some modern cars that are fun and entertaining and endearing. Many are not. They're certainly different, but since I get to try all kinds of different cars on for size, I get to see what works and what doesn't. Each morning I look forward to driving my 2004 Audi (converted to a pickup but still 100% stock mechanically and from behind the wheel it's indistinguishable from a stock one). My new Buick has been a headache, but my previous Cadillac CTS was a good car that I enjoyed owning. My previous Audi allroad was flat-out the best car I've ever owned and there was never a time that I drove it that I didn't feel special. My 1993 Mustang (admittedly not a modern car but not an ancient one, either) is a party every time I turn the key.

As you all surely know, it's a mistake to write off everything in a certain category. There are turds and there are great cars, just as there have always been. Being old makes collector cars more interesting because they're different in myriad different ways, but that doesn't make them all great cars that were insanely interesting to their owners when they were new. Buyers regarded their 1936 Buick Special sedan as a transportation appliance just as much as we regard modern Buicks as such. Only the passage of time has given us these rose-colored glasses.

 

Try to be objective and you'll see (to paraphrase Billy Joel) that the good old days weren't always good and tomorrow isn't as bad as it seems.

[60FlatTop]

I can't really recall ever buying a car that wasn't special or unique in some way to me. I think my mother put it best when she heard my aunt left her lights on and got a dead battery. Mom said "If she didn't own such a drab, crappy car she would have turned around and admired it when she walked away like I do with my black Buick and noticed the lights were on.

My cruise nights are good sometimes I park by Fords, sometimes by Camaros.

And not a 3 Series.

 

Didn't open the hood on the Buick.

[joe_padavano]

I drive a lot of newer rental cars (well, I did until a year ago...). I've had a Hemi Challenger, a 2019 Camaro SS, a few BMWs, and the usual stream of rental car fodder. The only one of those that I found remotely entertaining to drive was the Hemi Challenger. It felt like a musclecar and had minimal electronic BS. The Camaro had a lot of power, handled really well, but was soulless to drive. The ten speed AT came with paddle shifters. I played with those briefly, but the gear ratios are so close together (to keep engine RPMs in the most efficent band) that it was a full time job to watch the tach and flail on the paddle shifters. First was only good across the crosswalk, and second topped out by the time you were across the intersection. The BMWs drove well but had the absolute worst driver interface I've ever seen. At least the transmission programming was always in the gear I would have chosen. The sea of Kias, Hyundais, Corollas, Cruzes, and anonymous crossovers were just mind-numbing. The Challenger was the only one I would remotely consider owning, and even that was a stretch.

[George Cole]

30 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

I have a friend with a Tesla model S and he ran into an issue like that. 
Had to take the car three hours away to find a technician that could fix it.

 

What headache! 

Don't get me started again with the bullsh*t electronic issues with my 2019 Escalade which the dealerships local technonerds have been unable to fix. Its been in the shop 5 times for approximately 2 months total and they give it back to me with driver control settings changed to try and mask the problems, but the problems remain. Then the service manager had the balls to tell me it's because I don't know how to drive it. I'll never buy another.

 

[TTR]

2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

...black rimmed glasses and screwball hats.

Now, where can I get some of those ? 

Even though my Roadster is not a "foreign car", I think above "accessories" could enhance my experiences with it and drives with Italian Stallion(s) would benefit for sure. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by TTR (see edit history)

[Pete O]

If you think about it, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the blandness of modern cars.   What makes them bland is that they are too perfect.  Even the lowest price cars handle like a sports car from 50 years ago, the noise, vibration and harshness has been engineered out, 100k miles between tune ups, 6k miles between oil changes- neither of which you can do yourself.  They have no individual personalities.  What gives a car a personality is quirkiness, but nobody would buy a quirky car today.  The car you look back on with the most nostalgia is the one that gave you an adventure- maybe because of a breakdown on the roadside that you had to overcome.  Funky handling, a mechanical feel to it, the ability to raise the hood and do your own maintenance connects an owner to his car, but all that is gone because we demanded cars that handled better, ran quieter, had longer maintenance schedules ,were more reliable and the car manufacturers gave us what we asked for.

[BobinVirginia]

16 minutes ago, George Cole said:

Don't get me started again with the bullsh*t electronic issues with my 2019 Escalade which the dealerships local technonerds have been unable to fix. Its been in the shop 5 times for approximately 2 months total and they give it back to me with driver control settings changed to try and mask the problems, but the problems remain. Then the service manager had the balls to tell me it's because I don't know how to drive it. I'll never buy another.

 

Now that’s a headache!! 
Sorry for the troubles you’re having and I’m sure it’s a big disappointment. 

[rocketraider]

7 minutes ago, George Cole said:

 Then the service manager had the balls to tell me it's because I don't know how to drive it. I'll never buy another.

That would have elicited a nose-to-nose response that he'd better start showing me how to drive it.

 

It's like I told the young chef-owner of a "casual fine dining" restaurant a few years back. "Your food and atmosphere aren't good enough for your host and waitstaff to be condescending and surly".

[Matt Harwood]

Electronic gremlins are certainly part of the new car ownership experience and my new Buick is no exception--it's been in the shop with electronic bugaboos for about 40% of the time that I've owned it. And while I hated the car, I'm really going to try to give it another chance now that most of the problems have been excised. Yes, they did try to explain that I was doing it wrong, but when I asked them to show me how and it didn't operate they way they expected, they started taking me seriously. It is now two "brains" past that point and seems to be operating correctly. I'll give it a chance because everyone else says it's a great car and I've been so fixated on the electronic issues that I've ignored everything else. So I'm trying to keep an open mind. Maybe it'll win me over, maybe not. But it has the potential because it's pretty and practical and I like Buicks.

 

How many great old cars have been problematic? Buick Self-Shifters are practically extinct today because the buyers hated them and insisted that the dealers remove them. Seen many '50s cars with operational air spring systems? Or did they all get coil springs when the system proved so unreliable that it was unworkable in the real world. Chyslers with primitive fuel injection where there was a factory notice for dealers to quietly tear it all out and replace it with a carburetor? New tech is problematic and customers frequently hate it--that's not a new experience, either.

 

Time has a way of making us forget how awful things were in the past. If our brains didn't work like that, everyone would be an only child.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[TerryB]

My son who is in his late 20s says this is fun to drive.  You just need a big wallet too.

Note- it’s not his car, his wallet isn’t that big😀.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by TerryB (see edit history)

[George Cole]

22 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

That would have elicited a nose-to-nose response that he'd better start showing me how to drive it.

 

It's like I told the young chef-owner of a "casual fine dining" restaurant a few years back. "Your food and atmosphere aren't good enough for your host and waitstaff to be condescending and surly".

He told me to come back when he had more time to talk to me.

[George Cole]

26 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

Now that’s a headache!! 
Sorry for the troubles you’re having and I’m sure it’s a big disappointment. 

It was my wife's dream car. It's become my nightmare.

[TerryB]

24 minutes ago, George Cole said:

It was my wife's dream car. It's become my nightmare.

Been there too George.  My 2013 Dodge van with wheelchair conversion purchased in 2014 with 9k miles was supposed to be my ticket to go ride, my legs to replace my non working ones.  It was more of a nightmare for the first 4 years of ownership.  It’s finally better now but when I think of all the heartache it caused it was awful.  It’s not something you just dump and get another to replace it as the wheelchair conversion is not transferable to another.  It took all the money to get this one so nothing was left over to buy a different one. It mostly works now, sometimes the ramp side sliding door won’t close on hot days and only hot days, go figure.