Jump to content

Large-ish centre door sedan - any ideas?


Recommended Posts

A forgotten body style! Model T Ford center-door sedans are very well known, and a few hundred of them probably survive. However, Ford was far from the only company offering a center-door sedan! Smaller cars included Maxwell (one is known to survive!). Numerous mid-size cars offered a center-door sedan. Most of them had bodies built by one or another of a couple companies that specialized in coach building. I suspect that some companies used artist renderings for their sales brochures, and would only order the special body fitted after someone decided to buy one.

I have seen photos of survivors of a couple Dodge, a Hudson, a Chalmers, and talked to someone that saw a Studebaker. I have seen era photos of a few bigger cars including a Pierce Arrow, and if I recall correctly, a Simplex. 

 

The details just aren't clear enough to make identifying this car easy. It appears to be fairly large. The hood looks too long for Cadillac. The fenders do have a late 1910s Studebaker look to them, but the rear hubcap doesn't look right for them.

Wonderful looking car regardless!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The car appears to have curved glass front windows which would be highly unusual for the era. That and the oddly contoured rear fenders may eventually lead somewhere. Has about 110"-115" wheelbase. With several hundred manufacturers back then and even more custom body builders, pinning this one down might take some time (or a real expert, not me!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Grant Motor Co exported Grant Six automobiles to New Zealand (I ASSUME this photo is from Kiwi-Land, since the OP is NZcarnerd).

 

My parents once bought a very uncommon 1921 Grant Six chassis from a Mr Black in New Zealand, and had it shipped here as a parts car for the 21 Grant Six roadster they owned at that time. At first I wondered if this one could be a Grant, but the hood seems too rounded, and if I'm seeing the hood-side louvres correctly, they are way down low on the side of the hood, and pretty short.  

Grant car 4.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Grant 6's , despite being a 6 are relatively small cars. The one in the photo looks reasonably large to my eye. Upper middle class car of about 1918 - 1921 and more likely than not an outside supplier body is about all I can venture.

 

Greg

Link to post
Share on other sites

The curved glass in the front section could possibly indicate a custom body not a factory "catalog" . Willoughby Body Co. of Utica, NY did the curved glass in the front section on some enclosed coachwork in the early 1920s . I have seen this in the photographs they took of some of the cars they built while under construction, that they had in their company files and records that were kept by the company President, Francis Willoughby. His personal photo albums exist .

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, lump said:

The Grant Motor Co exported Grant Six automobiles to New Zealand (I ASSUME this photo is from Kiwi-Land, since the OP is NZcarnerd).

 

My parents once bought a very uncommon 1921 Grant Six chassis from a Mr Black in New Zealand, and had it shipped here as a parts car for the 21 Grant Six roadster they owned at that time. At first I wondered if this one could be a Grant, but the hood seems too rounded, and if I'm seeing the hood-side louvres correctly, they are way down low on the side of the hood, and pretty short.  

Grant car 4.jpg

 

The photo of the centre door is from the US I think. It was on a facebook page.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

All,

    I’m pretty sure that the car in the picture is a late 1916 to 1918 Kissel Model 6-38 All-Year center door touring. These cars had a removable wood hardtop which could be removed and replaced with convertible fittings in a few hours. See pictures
A. The hood on those Kissel models had shorter side vents., as your car in the picture.

b. The front side windows on those Kissels curved into the windshield exactly as in the picture.

c. The door hinges for the front are hidden while the handles are correct Kissel rings.

d. Those Kissel cars had a relatively long 117” wheelbase. 
e. The wheels are a match to Kissel and the rear hubcaps are bigger as correct for Model 6-38 kissels

f. The windshield is identical to split Kissel slyly for that period

     I’ve seen a wrecked 1916-1918 Kissel 6-38 roadster with that same cubed glass front. I dismantled it but saved the pictures below.

5953F43C-DB72-4CB6-AAD9-00B3F1A1B321.jpeg

72F3477D-595F-44B3-A248-4DBCDC8DD1EE.jpeg

F927AB22-1C8C-4DFF-944F-E3DB4320A999.jpeg

FECD44DA-E6C1-4F21-B69D-7AF87C2F6267.jpeg

158F8BED-7B26-4278-AD5E-629361380354.jpeg

99DD432C-6EB3-4570-A13C-A3038E608C5C.jpeg

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

There were two different wheel sizes for he two different engine sizes. 
The 1916-1918 Kissel 6-38 usually had the 6 cylinder with 34 x 4 tires.

but you could get the Special Kissel double six (12-cylinder) which had 35” tires. 
One Kissel double six car survives at the Denver Fourney museum. And then in 1919 Kissel used left-over Double Six bodies on their first Model 6-45 cars - only one survives and I have it. Here is a picture.with the convertible top on. Center door.

Ron Hausmann

89D8FB51-D07B-4391-9B97-37D4A7ED92A3.jpeg

8162BB32-587E-4C61-B970-DDE1E99E7D3D.jpeg

A5BB71E7-1BD8-4468-AADE-F120895C34B8.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wayne sheldon said:

Even more rare than a large car center-door sedan!

Wayne,

My 1919 Kissel with the 1918 Kissel All Year Touring body in the picture above, is factory original and correct. For the first 1919 post war cars, those left over bodies were all that Kissel had available to sell. Mine is number 0235. It’s complete but not running (yet).

Ron Hausmann 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wayne sheldon said:

Ron H, You have a marvelous collection of Kissels! I always enjoy reading about them.

Here are four Kissels that I took out yesterday. We have very very few sunny, above freezing days here in Michigan so I got them going on that one day yesterday!

D9311D50-613B-450F-8BF3-676FC50B5C72.jpeg

351340D2-DF4B-4385-AEAE-7DDC1D54B50F.jpeg

6C474FF5-87F7-4E28-BB2D-83E738AE4E27.jpeg

06BAB360-830D-4A5D-B9FA-D3ED58D1EB4D.jpeg

1A44082F-2E65-4D20-B9EA-E331E5A64DF9.jpeg

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The late 1910s to the mid 1920s is second only to the brass era in my likes of antique automobiles. I think Kissel built some of the most beautiful cars of that era! And they were excellent performers as well. I did consider buying one a bit over thirty years ago, but generally, they have always been a bit out of my reach. You do an incredible job on the restorations you do. I very much enjoyed following your restoring the blue 'Sedanette'. Thank you for sharing the journey with us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ron hausmann said:

All,

    I’m pretty sure that the car in the picture is a late 1916 to 1918 Kissel Model 6-38 All-Year center door touring. These cars had a removable wood hardtop which could be removed and replaced with convertible fittings in a few hours. See pictures
A. The hood on those Kissel models had shorter side vents., as your car in the picture.

b. The front side windows on those Kissels curved into the windshield exactly as in the picture.

c. The door hinges for the front are hidden while the handles are correct Kissel rings.

d. Those Kissel cars had a relatively long 117” wheelbase. 
e. The wheels are a match to Kissel and the rear hubcaps are bigger as correct for Model 6-38 kissels

f. The windshield is identical to split Kissel slyly for that period

     I’ve seen a wrecked 1916-1918 Kissel 6-38 roadster with that same cubed glass front. I dismantled it but saved the pictures below.

5953F43C-DB72-4CB6-AAD9-00B3F1A1B321.jpeg

72F3477D-595F-44B3-A248-4DBCDC8DD1EE.jpeg

F927AB22-1C8C-4DFF-944F-E3DB4320A999.jpeg

FECD44DA-E6C1-4F21-B69D-7AF87C2F6267.jpeg

158F8BED-7B26-4278-AD5E-629361380354.jpeg

99DD432C-6EB3-4570-A13C-A3038E608C5C.jpeg


here’s a period correct picture or advertisement. Looks identical to nzcarnerds picture at the top.

ron hausmann 

CFE3FD22-CC97-458E-A049-D8D0A48812E7.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ron hausmann said:

Better picture yet. Identical to nzcarnerd’s mystery car picture at top.

 

E1AD3593-086F-40B1-966C-F70B877ED302.jpeg

 

Now I just have to remember where I found the mystery photo, and post its identity.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...