16V flywheel/clutch differences

[Reaper1]

OK, so I learned a lesson today. I was attempting to assemble my new clutch to my flywheel on my 16V engine. In this car I am not using the Getrag, I have swapped to an A568. I knew that the dust tins were different, but I thought that was just because of the transmission...NOPE! The 16V uses a LARGER flywheel than the other Turbo Mopar cars. Not only does the clutch not bolt up, but the entire flywheel is too big for the bellhousing! 

 

So, I just wanted to share that little tid-bit with everyone in case you might have a 16V car that you are planning to swap the transmission on. 

[Hemi Dude]

Here is an experience that could have been avoided if you were a member of the TC America club. So many people here on AACA would benefit from membership.

[Reaper1]

3 hours ago, Hemi Dude said:

Here is an experience that could have been avoided if you were a member of the TC America club. So many people here on AACA would benefit from membership.

I have meant to join a few times, but just never have. I need to check back in to see if they have gotten the online membership thing working. Honestly, that was my hold-up...being able to send my payment.

[Reaper1]

3 hours ago, Hemi Dude said:

Here is an experience that could have been avoided if you were a member of the TC America club. So many people here on AACA would benefit from membership.

Oh, and you were one of the first people I thought of to ask, but I was in a time crunch and I didn't know if you were available.

[Garnet & Gold]

The TC America, Inc. can be accessed via: 

Chrysler TC by Maserati - Home (chryslertcbymaseraticlub.com) or by clicking near the top of this AACA site.  Once on the site click on the Membership tab and complete the information.  Payment is cash or check made out to TC America, Inc. for $39.50 and you can mail it to me at TC America, 4522 W. Village Dr. #148, Tampa, FL  33624.  We were not able to work out an agreement with PayPal and Visa and the like are to expensive.

[Turbo Kane]

Thanks Reaper1 that’s another good reason to swap to a large spline 523 when my clutch eventually goes. For now I baby it which is no fun. I have a different car fun fun though I guess. I swapped a 2.4 turbo into a 91 Spirit R/T. That’s kind of the way to go now. Every bolt on part available and more power out of the box. Mines a very modest build for daily driving. Just need to finish up the AC before next SDAC and I’ll take the whole family with in it. 

[Turbo Kane]

Incase anyone’s interested Jackson sells laser cut powder coated conversion mounts for $250 shipped. For both early and late TC’s. They bolt in and great and the engine will be centered and level. He’s a chassis fabricator. The cam driven distributor conversion is also bolt on and go. Very simple to swap in a 2.4 now days.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Turbo Kane
Typo (see edit history)

[Turbo Kane]

I have a spare Pt cruiser 2.4 turbo for sale in WI. $750 for the complete engine or $950 with conversion mounts included. Bolt in an easy 300 hp for under $1000. You’ll need a neon srt-4 intake manifold to make it fit it a TC

[Hemi Dude]

That looks like it would be a great conversion for a TC. Unfortunately no shop, no lift but too many years. Anyway I’d like to see my 8 valve hit 300K mi. Should make that on the trip to National and back home in September.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Hemi Dude
conversation changed to conversion (see edit history)

[Turbo Kane]

I bet you have the most miles ever put on a TC. The best part about the 8v’s and A413’s they are so simple to work on. As long as you have a spare HEP and SMEC power board you should roll 300k easy! I used to keep a spare in my glove box when I daily drove a 8v turbo caravan. 

[RobertLDuncan]

So what is the solution for a transmission swap? Can you use a different Mopar flywheel on the Maserati crank?

[Hemi Dude]

1 hour ago, RobertLDuncan said:

So what is the solution for a transmission swap? Can you use a different Mopar flywheel on the Maserati crank?

How about telling us what you have in mind?

Just a hint, I installed a Getrag 5 speed transaxle behind my 2.5L in my 85 Laser.

Maybe you can now figure out the interchangeability.

[RobertLDuncan]

My 16v TC has no functioning 3rd gear syncro.  Disappointing since the car only has 36k miles.  I am researching replacing it with an A568. From this post I see that the 16v flywheel will not fit in the A568 case. Will another turbo Dodge flywheel fit the 16v crank and allow the A568 to be used? Then what shift cables are required?

 

It looks like I can mix and match CV ends onto axle halfshafts for the left side to match the A568 splines, then rework the intermediate shaft for the right side. Is a turbo Dodge intermediate shaft a direct fit to the 16v block? Then convert to Dodge halfshafts. My understanding is that the wheel ends are the same as Dodge parts, the trans end is a special spline for the 284.

 

The other idea, I have a small machine shop, is to get a broken/spare 284 and experiment with making my own parts/tools to rebuild the 284. I have done something like this with a BMW trans. I was able to use parts from a common BMW 328 5 speed trans to fix a rare BMW 735i factory Getrag 5 speed car (1 of 410 in North America).

 

For the mean time I am driving the TC and skipping 3rd gear.

 

[Turbo Kane]

Word of caution the 284 is apparently spring loaded and dangerous to take apart. As for the flywheel you’d need to swap in a 568 go to rockauto.com and purchase a new luk replacement for $50. Look up any 90-94 dodge daytona/Lebaron/ect 5 speed flywheel. Grab some daytona axles too. If you want equal length passenger side I have one from a daytona that you could purchase from me. I’m located in WI. 

[Hemi Dude]

On 6/21/2021 at 8:17 AM, RobertLDuncan said:

My 16v TC has no functioning 3rd gear syncro.  Disappointing since the car only has 36k miles.  I am researching replacing it with an A568. From this post I see that the 16v flywheel will not fit in the A568 case. Will another turbo Dodge flywheel fit the 16v crank and allow the A568 to be used? Then what shift cables are required?

 

It looks like I can mix and match CV ends onto axle halfshafts for the left side to match the A568 splines, then rework the intermediate shaft for the right side. Is a turbo Dodge intermediate shaft a direct fit to the 16v block? Then convert to Dodge halfshafts. My understanding is that the wheel ends are the same as Dodge parts, the trans end is a special spline for the 284.

 

The other idea, I have a small machine shop, is to get a broken/spare 284 and experiment with making my own parts/tools to rebuild the 284. I have done something like this with a BMW trans. I was able to use parts from a common BMW 328 5 speed trans to fix a rare BMW 735i factory Getrag 5 speed car (1 of 410 in North America).

 

For the mean time I am driving the TC and skipping 3rd gear.

 

Have you thought about buying a good used 284 from Rick Diogo rick@rpiperformance.com  or arizonaparts.com or tcparts.com?

[RobertLDuncan]

My thinking is that the 284 is not worth investing dollars. It is not serviceable in the future. The Dodge transmission will easily take the power of the 16v moter and can be serviced in the future. 

[Hemi Dude]

2 hours ago, RobertLDuncan said:

My thinking is that the 284 is not worth investing dollars. It is not serviceable in the future. The Dodge transmission will easily take the power of the 16v moter and can be serviced in the future. 

OK, was just trying to make it a simpler repair for you.

As I wrote initially, I bought a submerged 91 TC that was in a flood, and used it’s 284 transaxle in an ‘85 Laser that I built a HP 2.5L engine for. 
That trans operated perfectly for me all the years that I drove that car. 
My first TC which is now approaching 300K has a 555 that I installed around 20 years ago. Here I bought every necessary part at a salvage yard from a scrapped Daytona. The important thing is to gather parts and trans from one car, so everything matches. 

[RobertLDuncan]

Is it as simple as using a Dodge flywheel to fit the A568 transmission to the 16v block?

 

So how does being a TC America club member help with Reaper1s transmission issue?

 

I am now a member. Other than two newsletters what information do I have access to? 

[Hemi Dude]

Hello Robert Duncan,

 

#1. Yes, you need the flywheel and clutch components. Also the shift cables and the clutch release cable. The 16V block is the same block as the 8 valve block, so the transaxle bolts up to the same bolt holes. The same for the crankshafts, even though they are very different especially the connecting rod journals and even the manufacturer,  but the flywheel mounting is exactly the same.

 

#2. As a TCA member he would have had earlier connection with people who are well acquainted with the car.

 

#3. You have access to any number of people who have information and people who have parts, look at the back pages of the newsletter, you will see that I am one of them.

The thing about helping is that we need good information as to the problem and what sort of outcome a person is looking for, then good communication from the person working with the problem since 'WE' cannot see what the owner is seeing and doing.

[Reaper1]

So, ANY of the 8-bolt 4-cylinder flywheels will bolt onto the Maserati crank. You have to match the flywheel and clutch to the application.

 

The 284 transmission is VERY similar to the 282, and the Oldsmobile FSM listed the special tools for the 284 (never made and never available from what I have read), BUT, the process is basically the same. I only know 1 person who has actually tried to take one apart, but I am going to be #2, because I am POSITIVE it can be done. The trick comes down to the shift mechanism. The 284 in my red TC (Doyle) has a bad 3-4 synchro mechanism because it just refuses to match gear speed, even double clutching (granny shifting like you should). Because the unit is already not worthy of reselling, can't screw it up any more than it already is! LOL

[RobertLDuncan]

Yes, I am with you on this. I can be #3, or maybe #2.5. If you can find a picture of the tools I might be able to machine something. 

 

I am going to fit an A568 to my car while trying to fix the 284. I expect it to take a year or so.

 

I found a reference to the detent mechanism being difficult.  It shows a cover inside the bell housing that prys off to expose balls and springs that mate to grooves in the shift rail shafts. Keeping track of these is very important. 

 

The input shaft seal is also an issue. It gets destroyed removing the retainer. It looks like a new retainer could be machined to hold a traditional seal. 

 

Then the parts that need replaced, the syncro rings/blocker rings might be able to be built up with metal vacuum disposition or plating. Or just machine new ones.

 

I have to believe that some other Getrag transmission has close enough parts to work in the 284, but finding them would be a chore.

 

Anyways, I would love to share information going forward. 

[Hemi Dude]

"I have to believe that some other Getrag transmission has close enough parts to work in the 284, but finding them would be a chore."

These transmissions were used in the Chevrolet and Pontiac midsize speciality body styles, don't remember their names, during that same era.

I use to buy the clutch discs from a Chevy dealer to use in my 16V  89TC and others.   Check it out.

[Reaper1]

Again, my bet is that 282 parts might work. Can't know for sure until one is apart. And even if I have to saw the case apart, I WILL get inside! Have Sawzall, will travel! LOL