48Super Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 I had to buy a new battery for my '65 today and while I was installing it I was thinking about how often the subject of proper battery cable routing comes up on these cars. I looked in my shop manual and there was a perfect illustration showing the correct factory cable routing with the negative terminal closest to the fender. I've scanned this image and included it here for reference. The configuration shown would represent how the cables would look when using a Group 27 battery with the terminals located closest to the front of the car and the cables going between the filler caps. Some owners prefer to use a Group27F battery which would put the terminals in the same orientation but behind the filler caps (closer to the engine). This eliminates the need cables to pass between the caps. I hope this is of some help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Although it works to use the 27F, there is more clearance between the battery posts and the hood at the forward position of the posts like the factory photo....that's why they positioned the battery that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 You'll also notice that the positive cable is shown tucked between the hold down post and the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I thought "originally" the first gen's at some point in time, the positive was near the fender with a rubber boot over it and the battery terminals on engine side, but then there was a change made to what is stated above. I still have the positive cable near fender with the rubber boot (64 Riv). Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, awk409ak said: I thought "originally" the first gen's at some point in time, the positive was near the fender with a rubber boot over it and the battery terminals on engine side, but then there was a change made to what is stated above. I still have the positive cable near fender with the rubber boot (64 Riv). Art That is not an original cable Art Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Hi Tom, You mean the ring clamp? You are correct. I know that, but installed it before I knew and have not removed it yet. So what does the original look like? Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I have no way of scanning it, but one of my 63 pieces of literature shows the original battery placement. A Group 27 Delco tartop battery with screw on caps. The Battery is oriented with the positive post closer to the radiator and both posts toward the front. The positive cable lies between the first and second caps on the left. Exactly like the illustration that @48Super posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I will make the change. Is the rubber boot still used.? Will need to order new cables to get rid of the ring clamps (they were used later, I have them on my 67 Firebird) Thanks, Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, awk409ak said: I thought "originally" the first gen's at some point in time, the positive was near the fender with a rubber boot over it and the battery terminals on engine side, but then there was a change made to what is stated above. I still have the positive cable near fender with the rubber boot (64 Riv). Art 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Was the positive cable always red or were they both black from the factory? Does anyone know where to find new original cables with the part number on the cables? Art (Edited) It states in the above diagram that the positive was red. Sorry! Art Edited February 28, 2021 by awk409ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) The picture to which I was referring shows both cables being black. The clamp for the positive cable has a ‘P’ stamped into it. No insulators covered the clamps. But @48Super‘s diagram says it’s red. If I were you, I would keep copies of each of the diagrams and Service Bulletins in your car to show the judges. Edited February 28, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Rivnut, I saw the same thing. I also saw that in the service information that the NEG cable is missing the ground wire to the base of the regulator, which is in the other (@48super) diagram. Got mine almost converted today, but could not find a red positive cable. Have to check what Cars Inc. has. I really prefer the black cable, because it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (if you know what I mean). Ha ha, I really do not get into that kind of judging much, good idea. I just like to try my best to keep most of it looking original as I can, especially the easy stuff. Art Edited February 28, 2021 by awk409ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Super Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 My '65 has the original positive cable which is red, I also had a '64 with the original cable and that one was red as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 48Super, Thanks. I really messed up on this, but it is all fixable. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 There’s a shop here in town that rebuilds starter motors for anything. They have some heavy gauge wire and will make battery cables to your specs. I had an 00 gauge cable made with the correct ends. Cable you get at the local jobber are usually 2 gauge and have the one size clamps. Look around and see what’s out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Ed, Thanks. Cars Inc. has some cables for our years, I may try them. I need a new hold down piece too and they have that too. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Lacquer thinner and a rattle can of Krylon will take care of wire colors pretty good. When I disassembled my '64 wiring harness and made repairs I couldn't get the apple green #14 wire for the temperature sensor. The replacement was yellow to start and the green paint has held up well. The purple #12 from the junction box to the start was an odd one. I had to order a few feet from Rhode Island for that one, and still have enough to make another. The wiring work table: Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, awk409ak said: Ed, Thanks. Cars Inc. has some cables for our years, I may try them. I need a new hold down piece too and they have that too. Art Try `Lectric Limited. Years ago they were mistakenly offering spring ring cables as originals for first gen cars. I sent them original cables with the factory part numbers still stamped on them. See what they are currently offering, Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Lectric Limited has both positive and negative. https://www.lectriclimited.com/battery-cables-and-ground-straps/battery-cable-141219 https://www.lectriclimited.com/battery-cables-and-ground-straps/battery-cable-140737 Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Hey guys thanks for the help. I think this is the neg cable, no picture to confirm if it has the secondary wire. https://www.lectriclimited.com/battery-cables-and-ground-straps/battery-cables-negative-ground/battery-cable-120854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I called Lectric Limited, they do not make a neg cable for 64 Riviera and do not offer a secondary wire on the neg cable. I put in 65 Riviera and the have the neg cable for that, but it's a spring ring clamp with the secondary wire. Kinda crazy! Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Can someone tell me if the 64 neg cable had a secondary wire to the regulator base, and did the neg cable connect to the head or the power steering bracket. Where is our real expert. 😁 just kidding. Those two diagram are different. Trying to get this right and having hard time finding a neg cable with the secondary wire. Thank you everyone, Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 You mean with a "Lead Wire"? Here in Canada, we have PICO Wire. They have a negative 4AWG with lead wires. Two actually, a 32" and a longer 48" https://picocanada.com/products/596 For the 32": https://picocanada.com/view_product/6259-0-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 They require a minimum of 2 gauge even better 1 gauge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 hours ago, awk409ak said: I called Lectric Limited, they do not make a neg cable for 64 Riviera and do not offer a secondary wire on the neg cable. I put in 65 Riviera and the have the neg cable for that, but it's a spring ring clamp with the secondary wire. Kinda crazy! Art Did you ask them while you had them on the phone if the negative `65 cable indeed has a spring ring end and if it has a secondary wire? I`m no expert but, if not, maybe the image is inaccurate? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) I do not remember any of the 63 or 64 Rivieras that I’ve owned having a wire running from the negative cable end to the voltage regulator, but I’m not the original owner and who knows what they may have done. The small wire is connected to the screw that holds the VR in place to ground the fender. With two ground straps goin from the block to the firewall is the ground wire really necessary? So many batteries seem to installed bassackwards that you’d think if there was a short wire to the voltage regulator that the batteries would have been installed correctly when they were replaced. But every Riviera that I’ve owned has had the negative cable attached to the power steering pump bolt, as shown in @48Super ‘s posted illustration. You don’t want to untorque a head bolt for that. Or if there’s a studded head bolt that the cable can reach, there’s probably no reason you can’t use it. Probably depends on the size of the hole in the cable end. Edited March 2, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 First, here is battery post on the head (see pic). It is head bolt with a stud that a nut is used for the neg cable. I copied a page from my 64 Chassis Service Manual which state to connect to this stud on the head (para. 2 highlighted). It does not mention any other wire and NO illustrations (I do not have a 64 body manual). So my plan for now is go without the secondary wire and connect the cable to the stud at the head. Pos cable, need to get a red cable (and I may say screw it and stay with black). It goes to show that you can have all this documentation and if they do not match or state the same thing they are useless as far as correctness. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 3 hours ago, awk409ak said: First, here is battery post on the head (see pic). It is head bolt with a stud that a nut is used for the neg cable. I copied a page from my 64 Chassis Service Manual which state to connect to this stud on the head (para. 2 highlighted). It does not mention any other wire and NO illustrations (I do not have a 64 body manual). So my plan for now is go without the secondary wire and connect the cable to the stud at the head. Pos cable, need to get a red cable (and I may say screw it and stay with black). It goes to show that you can have all this documentation and if they do not match or state the same thing they are useless as far as correctness. Art Art, The manual states "grounded to the cylinder head" which is a general statement in a general section with no mention of a studded head bolt. This section and statement are so general as to be virtually worthless for extracting details to apply to a specific model. For example, in non power steering applications the ground cable does indeed mount to the cylinder head with a standard hex bolt, not a studded head bolt, at the location of one of the threaded holes where the power steering pump brackets mounts, but that doesnt really apply to the Riviera models.... No matter what the general text in the manual states, I can assure you from 40 years of experience working on the first gen Rivs that the ground cable was originally placed as in the diagram in the first post of this thread. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJS Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Good day. For what it’s worth, right, wrong or indifferent, my ‘64 has the secondary wire off of the negative cable, and the negative cable connects to the power steering pump. In the 40+ years I’ve owned it, I don’t specifically recall ever changing the negative cable until recently but if I did it woulda been in kind. I would have assumed the secondary was there for a reason. The shop that I trusted to do the recent work would’ve also just replaced what was already there. Later, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) deleted Edited March 10, 2021 by awk409ak deleted (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Super Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share Posted March 19, 2021 Here is a picture of the "factory style" installation on my '65. The original positive battery cable is just long enough to route between the battery and the clamp hold down rod. The battery is a Walmart unit disguised as an OEM Delco using a detail kit from Weskcar.com . I think it looks pretty nice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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