Jump Starting a 6V Car

[greenie]

Let me throw another can of gas on the fire. I bought my ‘46 gmc pickup in 1997. When it needed a battery, the fellow at my local battery warehouse convinced me to try their 8-volt battery. The truck has no radio and is rarely (never!) driven at night, NTL- it has never blown a bulb. He instructed me to adjust the voltage regulator to 10 volts and that keeps the battery happy.

As it sits for months I keep an 8-volt Battery tender on it. The Battery Warehouse batteries have averaged 7-9 years of life.

Many will remember Sol who used to be a vendor at Carlisle and Hershey, selling Battery Tenders and Paint remover.  I asked him early on about an 8-volt unit and he told me they were no longer available; but he would “prod” the manufacturer about making another run. Several months later, at Hershey, he handed me my new tender. It’s over 20 years old now and has never been unplugged for more than a day.

We could get along fine with a 6-volt battery, all the cables and such were new when I bought the truck- but the 8-volt spins the starter better and gets the truck going faster. 

[supercub]

Interesting, I've never heard of an 8v battery before.

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, supercub said:

Interesting, I've never heard of an 8v battery before.

Wondering if you've ever heard of a six / twelve battery?

[supercub]

Yeah right

[Fossil]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:39 AM, greenie said:

When it needed a battery, the fellow at my local battery warehouse convinced me to try their 8-volt battery.

This was and still is a common practice on old tractors with 6v systems. Makes starting them in the winter much easier. 

[Pfeil]

6 hours ago, supercub said:

Yeah right

A friend of mine had a six/twelve on his hard cranking 40 Ford. solenoid mounted on top, it supplies 12V to the starter, and the six volt part of the battery to the rest of the car.

 

 6 & 12 volt combination battery | The H.A.M.B.

[Frank DuVal]

16 hours ago, supercub said:

Yeah right

 

Yes, Right! It is was a real product, a 12 volt battery with a (or two) solenoid to parallel three cells with the other three cells for running/charging and series connecting 6 cells for starting. Pfeil has a link.

 

Real answer is not buying a 6/12 volt battery or an 8 volt battery, but just fix the car. they started fine in all sorts of weather when they were new!👍

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[supercub]

I agree, they must have worked fine back in the day. I had a 6V bike that started just fine, after sorting out the wiring issues, the headlight gave a good brilliance and it started easily, worked just as good as a 12V.

[Bhigdog]

There is nothing in the lead acid battery ITSELF that could or will explode. A product of the charging process is hydrogen and oxygen (an explosive mixture) that can remain in the battery for some time. Disconnecting the jumper can cause a spark that ignites the gas mixture in the battery. It happened to me during a 12V to 12V jump. Quite the surprise.

Using a 12V or 6V battery as the jumper battery does not mean a thing. The ignition source, the spark, is the only thing that matters........Bob

[padgett]

BTW I remember that early hydramatics (at least pre-fire) did have a rear pump and could be push started. Do not know when it was dropped.

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

BTW I remember that early hydramatics (at least pre-fire) did have a rear pump and could be push started. Do not know when it was dropped.

Yes, a front and rear pump. Was dropped when Controlled Coupling Hydramatic came out in 1956 in Cadillac, Pontiac StarChief and Olds 98. Except that 1956 Pontiac 870 & 860 and Olds 88 used the old Hydro , and in 57 they all switched to the new trans. Also Roto can't be pushed started either.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[supercub]

My Hudson FSM for the hydramatic says that it can be push started at 20mph. 

I think the battery explosion is from the cell separators giving out from the induced 12v, that would short out the cells.

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, supercub said:

My Hudson FSM for the hydramatic says that it can be push started at 20mph. 

I think the battery explosion is from the cell separators giving out from the induced 12v, that would short out the cells.

That's because you're Hudson has a first generation G.M. Hydramatic which has a front and rear pump. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[padgett]

BTW both 6v and 8v batteries are common for golf carts. Sam's has both. Even has a 6v AGM.

[54vicky]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:06 PM, Pfeil said:

Yes, a front and rear pump. Was dropped when Controlled Coupling Hydramatic came out in 1956 in Cadillac, Pontiac StarChief and Olds 98. Except that 1956 Pontiac 870 & 860 and Olds 88 used the old Hydro , and in 57 they all switched to the new trans. Also Roto can't be pushed started either. my 57 eldorado with 365 would start with a 30 mph then pusher back off worked many times over the years.

 

 

 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, 54vicky said:

 

The drivetrain on a 57 Eldorado has a 315 HydraMatic which is called a Controlled Coupling HydraMatic. There is NO rear pump in this transmission. No rear pump means you cannot pressurize the transmission to turn the engine over at ANY speed. Perhaps someone put a dual range slant pan HydraMatic in there which in that case would be possible to start by pushing.

 Look in your 1957 El Dorado owners manual, it will tell you what I've just said.  

[54vicky]

I never took the time to read it just got pushed when needed.I guess owning it for years it was easier than reading what I could not do.try owning one rather than reading I suppose next you will say I would not be able to put a 58 385 in it WRONG

[Pfeil]

7 minutes ago, 54vicky said:

I never took the time to read it just got pushed when needed.I guess owning it for years it was easier than reading what I could not do.try owning one rather than reading I suppose next you will say I would not be able to put a 58 385 in it WRONG

 Still a 365 in 1958, besides Cadillac never made a 385😉

[PONTIAC1953]

On 2/23/2021 at 12:39 PM, Pfeil said:

  Dual coupling or Controlled Coupling 4 speed Hydramatic also know as= ( Super Hydramatic-Pontiac 1956-1964) (Jetaway-Oldsmobile 1956-1960) ( 315 or P315 Hydramatic- Cadillac 1956-1964) Cannot be pushed started because the pump in the transmission is driven by the engine, there is no pressure to apply the clutches when the engine is not running.

 

  Roto Hydramatic 3 speed four range Hydramatic.   Used by Pontiac 1961-1964, Oldsmobile 1961-1964. Cannot be push started because the pump is driven by the input shaft which is driven or turned by the engine, Therefore with no fluid pressure to operate clutches the transmission will not transmit power and turn the engine.

The controlled coupling aka dual coupling Hydra-Matic transmissions in 1956-1958 Pontiacs was named the Strato Flight Hydra-Matic, name changed to Super Hydramatic in 1959, and the 56-58 Controlled Coupling Hydra-Matics DID have a rear pump, the 1959-1964 Super Hydramatics did not have the rear pump.

Charles L. Coker

1953 & 1954 Pontiac

Technical Advisor

Pontiac Oakland Club International

Edited January 2, 2023 by pontiac1953 (see edit history)

[PONTIAC1953]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:38 PM, 54vicky said:

I never took the time to read it just got pushed when needed.I guess owning it for years it was easier than reading what I could not do.try owning one rather than reading I suppose next you will say I would not be able to put a 58 385 in it WRONG

1949-1955 Cadillac 331 V8, 1956-1958 Cadillac 365 V8, 1959-1963 Cadillac 390 V8, 1964-1967 Cadillac 429 V8, 1968-1974 Cadillac 472 V8, 1975-1976 Cadillac 500 V8, 1970-1976 Eldorado 500 V8.

[PONTIAC1953]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:39 PM, Pfeil said:

The drivetrain on a 57 Eldorado has a 315 HydraMatic which is called a Controlled Coupling HydraMatic. There is NO rear pump in this transmission. No rear pump means you cannot pressurize the transmission to turn the engine over at ANY speed. Perhaps someone put a dual range slant pan HydraMatic in there which in that case would be possible to start by pushing.

 Look in your 1957 El Dorado owners manual, it will tell you what I've just said.  

The Controlled Coupling Hydra-Matic transmission DID have a rear pump from 1956 to 1958, I doubt very seriously that 1957-58 Eldorados would not have a rear pump, when 1956-1958 Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles did.

[Pfeil]

8 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

The controlled coupling aka dual coupling Hydra-Matic transmissions in 1956-1958 Pontiacs was named the Strato Flight Hydra-Matic, name changed to Super Hydramatic in 1959, and the 56-58 Controlled Coupling Hydra-Matics DID have a rear pump, the 1959-1964 Super Hydramatics did not have the rear pump.

Charles L. Coker

1953 & 1954 Pontiac

Technical Advisor

Pontiac Oakland Club International

Here is a 1958 Pontiac Brochure that calls Controlled Coupling HydraMatic the Super HydraMatic.

[PONTIAC1953]

7 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Here is a 1958 Pontiac Brochure that calls Controlled Coupling HydraMatic the Super HydraMatic.

well it makes me wonder, this GM United Service Manual says Strato Flight 

[PONTIAC1953]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:43 PM, padgett said:

BTW I remember that early hydramatics (at least pre-fire) did have a rear pump and could be push started. Do not know when it was dropped.

The rear pump was dropped in 1959.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:35 PM, Frank DuVal said:

 

Yes, Right! It is was a real product, a 12 volt battery with a (or two) solenoid to parallel three cells with the other three cells for running/charging and series connecting 6 cells for starting. Pfeil has a link.

 

Real answer is not buying a 6/12 volt battery or an 8 volt battery, but just fix the car. they started fine in all sorts of weather when they were new!👍

 

No they DIDN'T.   Not always. Folks LEARNED to MAKE them work.  Dad removed the battery from his 1934 Chevrolet and placed it behind the heating stove if the temp was to get into the low 30s or lower.  Placed a pan of red coals beneath the engine the next morning.. After leaving them for awhile, the battery was installed. 

 

  BenMore voltage has ALWAYS been better.  I am sure Dad would have jumped at 12V.

[Pfeil]

38 minutes ago, pontiac1953 said:

The rear pump was dropped in 1959.

I know the 59 Pontiac automatics could not be push started, but it's also interesting the 59's were the last controlled coupling hydra-matics to be cast iron.

[Paul Dobbin]

If a 6 volt car has a dead battery at a show, I would want to know if the owner killed the battery trying to start it.

If so, I would not jump it with 12 volts because the battery is not the cause of the non starting.  This would cause

the jumper cables to be connected to long.   

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Dad removed the battery from his 1934 Chevrolet and placed it behind the heating stove if the temp was to get into the low 30s or lower. 

Probably because the battery was two years old and needed replacement! Batteries back then failed early in life, and people with moderate resources (90% of people) did what they could to avoid buying new ones.

 

Not everyone could build a fire under their car when it was below 30°F out.  Being from Richmond, a more moderate climate, I only heard of issues starting when it was below 0°F.

[Buick35]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:08 PM, 60FlatTop said:

When my daughter started driving I gave her a '65 Electra to drive. I also bought a jumper box and put it in her trunk. She was warned the the Buick had a very special electric system and could not be used to jump other cars. The couple of times she used it to start a friend's car they thought she was a pretty cool girl to have tools like that.

 

I'm sure the Electra was happier for it.

 

On the jumper cables, it seems like it may have been in a Cheech and Chong movie where I heard one had to be a wealthy man in some neighborhoods to own his own jumper cables. And here's my snob daughter with a jump box and a laborer to keep it charged for her.

 

Say what you will about Mexicans but you can always rely on them to have a set of jumper cables.

[arcticbuicks]

we still do it all the time on the farm,just quick connect the cables and crank,can burn the points out if they are closed and you dont crank it right away........and boy will it crank over fast

[Marty Roth]

Making up your own 6-Volt charger-pak is not an altogether bad idea. I once did that with a smallish spare 6V battery and heavy cables and clamps, to carry around, "just in case". 

I have, on rare occasions, carefully and safely jumped from 12V-to-6V, first engaging the starter, and then holding the final ground jumper wire connection where I could immediately break the connection as the engine was starting. That way there is less chance of damage to the 6V system and its components.

[arcticbuicks]

today is -20 and quite nice,i left my 55 merc outside,its 6 volts and will start if you know the car and just how much to pump the gas,as you dont get much cranking before the battery runs down

[arcticbuicks]

i see a lot more 8 volt batteries at car shows,and they come in the long narrow style to fit cars like 40s buicks [if im thinking the right style]........guys tell me that the 6 volt charging actually puts out more than 6 volts at charge....so its great,and they say 8 volts isnt enough to burn anything out.......and they sure start better.........just what i have seen a lot lately and heard,.......i changed my 6 volt running and tail light bulbs to LED bulbs.......so nice and bright as the LED bulbs work with a wide range of voltage

[Matt Harwood]

8-volt batteries are the cheat codes of the automotive world.

[Frank DuVal]

Yep, to charge an 8 volt battery, one needs to adjust the voltage regulator or third brush to put out 9.5 volts+ or the 8 volt battery will be in a state of discharge and not last long.