Jump to content

New engine blocks and judging


Recommended Posts

I’ve seen where new 4 cylinder engine blocks are coming out soon, they are apparently correct or close to correct in external appearance but have some internal modifications. How much of a penalty is this in scoring?  I’m assuming it might be a big deduction in points. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No points deducted if external appearance is the same unless they change the Judging manual.

E. Engine
1. All radiator and hose clamps may be of
modern manufacture, but must be
visually of the era of the vehicle and of
the type specified by the vehicle
manufacturer.
2. Modern radiator core material used in
lieu of honeycomb or early type core
material is non-authentic and will receive
the maximum deduction,
as shown on
the judging form.
3. Added on fuel pumps (electric or
mechanical) which replace or supplement
the original
type pump or fuel
supply device on 1946 and later vehicles
are considered non-authentic and will
receive
the maximum deduction. Added
on fuel pumps on pre-1946 vehicles
should be located out of view and
installed in a workmanlike manner.
4. Electric starters are accepted for
early Brass Era vehicles up to 1915.
5. Non-factory air conditioning,
power
steering, power brakes, or hydraulic
brakes added to vehicles not so
equipped at the factory by the manufacturer
are non-authentic and require the
maximum deduction,
as shown on the
judging
form.
6. Cadmium plated spark plugs. First year
- 1956.
7. Batteries may be of modern manufacture,
but they must be visually of the era of
vehicle manufacture. Specific brand is
unimportant.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hwellens said:

No points deducted if external appearance is the same unless they change the Judging manual.

Sounds good. These are the blocks I’m talking about.  
 

http://www.modelaengine.com/photos-from-updates.html

 

It looks like they have made substantial progress on these, hope to see them available soon.  I was one of those waiting like a puppy for a scrap of bacon when a group announced years ago they were going to cast new flathead V8’s, but those haven’t materialized. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in the future, the Judging Standards Committee will need to address the installation of a new engine in a Model A. From what I have been reading, the block itself is very close to the original Ford block, with minor changes made in the casting process. It will take a sharp eyed judge to pick up the differences, but after a learning curve, the judges will be able to spot them. That being said I think it will be many years until we see the new block make an appearance. One factor will be the cost of the engine, as some of the numbers that have been floated around are around $10,000 for a complete engine. A fully rebuilt balanced, with insert bearings engine can be had for $4000 to $5000. This venture might have been a great idea about 40 or 50 years ago, but in reality there aren't many people restoring Model A's nowadays.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I think in the future, the Judging Standards Committee will need to address the installation of a new engine in a Model A. From what I have been reading, the block itself is very close to the original Ford block, with minor changes made in the casting process. It will take a sharp eyed judge to pick up the differences, but after a learning curve, the judges will be able to spot them. That being said I think it will be many years until we see the new block make an appearance. One factor will be the cost of the engine, as some of the numbers that have been floated around are around $10,000 for a complete engine. A fully rebuilt balanced, with insert bearings engine can be had for $4000 to $5000. This venture might have been a great idea about 40 or 50 years ago, but in reality there aren't many people restoring Model A's nowadays.

 

I'm trying to get into the Model A arena once my 57 Chevy is finished and gone.  The Model A has far less chrome, smaller, and just as much fun to drive, plus I want one to drive to work on most days so the more "modern" engine is a bit more appealing with the newer style bearings.   I would like to get into the show field with one car and drive the other.  I can manage two Model A's in the same space that I'm using now for my 57 Chevy.  I'm still an absolute newbie to the Model A (don't even have one yet) so the nuances are unknown to me yet regarding the judging.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had several Model A's and am in the process of re-restoring my '29 that I first purchased in 1968. It will be very hard to show a Model A and drive it to work on most days, as you state. If you are interested in showing a Model A and doing a correct restoration then you should purchase a copy of the Judging Standards. They are available from M.A.R.C and M.A.F.C.A. and will answer all your questions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, that’s why I figure I will end up with 2.  One that is the show queen, the other a driver.  I will start out with a driver first so I get all my mistakes done on that one and can do the show car correctly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

     What kind of judging are you referring to? When it comes to Model A judging, National AACA judging for Model As (as well as a few other specific marques/models) is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like MARC/MAFCA national "Fine Points" judging.

     A Model A that has a new block will likely slide through AACA unnoticed, but will be detected by MARC/MAFCA judges instantly and probably completely disqualify the car from "Fine Points" judging.

     It will be interesting to see if MARC/MAFCA will allow the new blocks in "Touring Class" judging. 

Edited by motoringicons (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Judging from the photos of a rough casting, there seems to be way too much finish work to make it affordable or practical. With the amount of good original engines still available and the cost to rebuild an original it seems more prudent to stay with an original engine, if for no other reason than keeping a good car original. Today it's so hard to find an "A" that hasn't been upgraded some how to make it drive more like a modern car! I say, if you want to drive a more modern car, then buy one! A correctly rebuilt and maintained original engine will most likely out last the owner, especially as for how much these cars are really driven. Besides, like 46 Woodie stated, the Model A, as with most old cars are starting to lose the interest they held even 40 years ago!

Link to post
Share on other sites

This will give you an idea how much the popularity of Model A's has fallen. My first year going to HERSHEY was 1968 and I still have the program from the meet. In '68 there were over 220 Model A's listed in the program to be entered on the show field. In 2019 there were about two dozen. I would bet that a great percentage of those cars are now hot rods.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, agree but more than one party has been working on replacement blocks.  I remember chatting with a couple younger guys in Schwalm's at Hershey maybe 15 years ago about their efforts.  Mennonites, I figured they wpuld get there given the work ethic.  But they are not whose doing these as far as I know.

 

Banger hot rod poularity might help make this financially workable?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As motoring icons points out, if judging a Model A is what you are looking for, always use the M.A.R.C and M.A.F.C.A. Judging Standards as your guide. I have seen Model A's with A.A.C.A., National First badges that would not get anything if judged by the Model A Club's. This is not taking anything away from the A.A.C.A. judging, they do a great job. The Judging Standards are almost 2" thick and every aspect of a Model A has had several changes over it's production lifetime. Judging of Model A's is done by teams of Model A experts that scrutinize every part of the car.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we download those standards or do we need to purchase a paper copy?  That would get me started on what to do and what to look for when buying parts. 

 

Edit:  Found them and ordered the whole set.  Thanks!

Edited by AURktman (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

AURktman, I think you will be amazed at the amount of research that has gone into the Model A Judging Standards when you receive them. I don't think there is a car made that has been more scrutinized and documented than the Model A Ford. For example there are two pages in chart form, on month to month changes to the carburetor alone. Most people think that the Model A chassis and components are all gloss black, not so. The frame was satin black, the front and rear axles were black, semi gloss and many of the other components were black gloss. It is impossible, to correctly restore a Model A to show condition without the Standards.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Now to find an acceptable candidate to restore.  I will keep an eye on those new engine blocks just in case they may come in handy. The link is actually provided to the engines from the MAFCA website. I wonder if there is a bit of endorsement that the new engine will be somewhat accepted, maybe not explicitly but somewhat implied. 
 

https://www.mafca.com/NewAEnginePhotos.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...