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My old car does not like this cold weather


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Why I have a number of >1A float chargers and a 15w (max) solar panel on the tow car. Also a few knife switches.

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Had a 65 Corsa with a four carb spider manifold that mounted a quadrajet in the middle & trombone exhaust. Won a lot of autocrosses back before the rules got serious.

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16 hours ago, carbking said:

Just for the record, my older vehicles like the cold a LOT better than the new electronic marvels like it.

 

The newer cars with all the live sensors drain the battery in this cold in a couple of days if not started.

 

Jon.

 

A friend of mine had a side swipe that took the mirror off his late model Volvo door. Couldn't keep the car running. The OAT (outside air temperature) sensor was in the mirror. Fine now, a new $2500 mirror fixed it.

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On 2/15/2021 at 5:33 PM, Ed Luddy said:

This is the original 230 c.i. installed engine. Supplied buy the GM McKinnon plant in St. Catharines Ont.

jancar 005.jpg

Great engine in wrong car. Lamb in Tigers clothing.

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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On 2/16/2021 at 12:55 PM, Frank DuVal said:

 

Not a Stove Bolt, but the new designed lightweight six cylinder block. Stove Bolts are the ones with the "Stove Bolts" holding various covers onto the block and head. Last of that linage* was the 1962 235 cubic inch, however that was so far improved many do not think the Stovebolt term should even apply to them (with their pressure lubricated rod bearings!).😁

 

* Unless you also want to count the Toyota copy, the F engine.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_F_engine, that continued until 1990 or so....

Yes I know that. But everyone in Canada still calls any inline 6 McKinnon a "Stovebolt" even the end of the line 250's in the late 80's trucks.

The Canadian pre 64 261 Pontiac only was a great torque maker.

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13 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 OK, you don't, but Studebaker collectors know the truth!👍

Look, you seem to know something that I don't. Instead of playing a game here just come out with it. OK?

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9 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Look, you seem to know something that I don't. Instead of playing a game here just come out with it. OK?

Sorry, thought you knew. That engine in the Pontiac was also found under the hood of Studebakers of the same year, 1966. The Studebaker assembly plant in Hamilton, ON got all their engines from the McKinnon engine plant in the 1965 and 1966 model years, as the South Bend engine plant had closed with the end of Studebaker production there. No Studebaker designed engines in 1965 and 1966.

 

Therefore, the engine in the Pontiac posted is a Studebaker engine!👍

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Allow me to post a look under the hood of my old 1966 Studebaker Commander with the inline McKinnon supplied Chevy 6. Indeed they are the same engine as in my 66 Pontiac. Different bore and stroke and paint on this particular one, but the 230 was also available in the Hamilton Ontario built Studebaker as well as the Oshawa Ontario built 1966 Laurentian.

66stude 015.jpg

66stude 016.jpg

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I've had to leave my 1963 Studebaker GT Hawk outside for the last week as storage isn't available until next weekend and it doesn't like the cold -15 C today either! Wouldn't start yesterday. battery is weak.

sbaker 006.jpg

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On 2/20/2021 at 6:58 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Sorry, thought you knew. That engine in the Pontiac was also found under the hood of Studebakers of the same year, 1966. The Studebaker assembly plant in Hamilton, ON got all their engines from the McKinnon engine plant in the 1965 and 1966 model years, as the South Bend engine plant had closed with the end of Studebaker production there. No Studebaker designed engines in 1965 and 1966.

 

Therefore, the engine in the Pontiac posted is a Studebaker engine!👍

I somewhat knew Studebaker used other brands engines back in the day, but for us teenagers back in the day, the Studebaker wasn't something that drew much attention. It was to us- a dead mark so we didn't pay attention. Putting a Chevrolet or Ford engine in another make to me and my friends just meant that mark was on it's way out.

  The engine in the Pontiac posted is a Chevrolet engine that was also used by Studebaker trying to hang on just before it's demise. To us Pontiac enthusiast a Chevrolet engine in a Pontiac equals a Chevrolet, along with Powerglide, not as strong rear axle and that narrow track .

A Pontiac Body on a Chevrolet chassis/suspension and powertrain = Chevrolet. Most Pontiac enthusiasts in Pontiac's heyday and die hard owners today in the states considered Canadian Pontiac's a Chevrolet.

Growing up late 40"s 50's early 60's and even through the late 60's and 70's the engine was the brand. That image was cultivated by the brand itself. Never so self evident as with the Oldsmobile engine lawsuits of the mid to late 70's.

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24 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Growing up  60's and even through the late 60's and 70's the engine was the brand.

There sure are a lot of Chevrolets out there that look like Fords and several other makes to me then since for some reason the SBC is the international engine of choice.

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I cheer on people who drive their old cars in very cold weather, but I generally avoid it, generally opting to start and maybe drive mine on the last warm days of early winter...just to keep a fresh shield of oil protection on internal surfaces. My brother worked for NAPA for over 40 years, and his observation was that cars break down during cold weather more than they do during warm weather. Acquaintances of mine with auto repair shops concurred with his opinion. 

 

The other reason I tend not to drive old cars when it's below mid 40's fahrenheit is because a hot engine and warm interior are pretty enticing to cold mice. No evidence of mice where I'm storing two of my cars now, and I'd like to keep it that way.

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1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

Growing up late 40"s 50's early 60's and even through the late 60's and 70's the engine was the brand. That image was cultivated by the brand itself. Never so self evident as with the Oldsmobile engine lawsuits of the mid to late 70's.

 

Absolutely true for GM. All of the car divisions generally started out as engine builders and morphed into car manufacturing.  That continued to be true up to about 1980 with the ascension of Roger Smith, a finance person calling the shots to consolidate engine production into one division, GM Powertrain.  But it really started earlier a few years where the consolidation became necessary because of emission requirements.  An example was every GM car division had a 350 cubic inch engine and they were not interchangeable in parts which required emission certification for each engine.  Remember, "I am from the government and I am here to help you"

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9 hours ago, JACK M said:

since for some reason the SBC is the international engine of choice.

 

The reason: For MANY years you could buy a GM Targetmaster 350 for $750.00! That is a complete NEW  engine, just bolt on your carburetor and exhaust system. Try to rebuild any engine to new quality for that little money in the 80s/90s. No wonder it was the engine of choice back then. Now, of course, they have the LS series to put in newer built rods. 

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9 hours ago, JamesR said:

I cheer on people who drive their old cars in very cold weather, but I generally avoid it, generally opting to start and maybe drive mine on the last warm days of early winter...just to keep a fresh shield of oil protection on internal surfaces. My brother worked for NAPA for over 40 years, and his observation was that cars break down during cold weather more than they do during warm weather. Acquaintances of mine with auto repair shops concurred with his opinion. 

 

The other reason I tend not to drive old cars when it's below mid 40's fahrenheit is because a hot engine and warm interior are pretty enticing to cold mice. No evidence of mice where I'm storing two of my cars now, and I'd like to keep it that way.

I took my 65 Type 111  1200"A" "Custom"    ( 1200 "A" Custom is a subset model of the basic 1200 "A" standard model not sold in U.S. and not a customized car) for a drive and a read  ( I took a James Herriot book) in our forest. When I left the house it was just about 32 degrees. My house is at 5,250 ft. elevation. The VW's 36hp engine started right up with it's manual choke. ( last year for the 36hp engine and a manual choke in a standard ( 1200"A") model. These cars have no problem at 14 degrees or 114 degrees. I've owned it for 53 years. Before I bought my 2012 Sentra SL it was the only car that could get over 40MPG.

 Image result for 1965 VW Type 111 Standard Beetle imagesImage result for 1965 VW Type 111 Standard Beetle imagesImage result for 1965 VW Type 111 Standard Beetle images

Just a little snow left over from our last snow storm 3wks ago

Image result for prescott forest imageImage result for prescott forest imageImage result for prescott forest image

 

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13 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

The reason: For MANY years you could buy a GM Targetmaster 350 for $750.00! That is a complete NEW  engine, just bolt on your carburetor and exhaust system. Try to rebuild any engine to new quality for that little money in the 80s/90s. No wonder it was the engine of choice back then. Now, of course, they have the LS series to put in newer built rods. 

 

OK, so they are cheap.

I have built several hot rods and my opinion is to keep along manufactures lines, An old Ford deserves a Ford engine. As does a Mopar deserve Mopar power.

Cheap and available kinda grinds on me in the broad scope of things.

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And before the SBC came out, Ford ruled the hot rod world with their flat head V-8. Lots of period soup up parts were available for that. 

 

Biggest HP for the Buck will always rule the hot rod world. People with money do what they want. The other 75% of rod builders watch their wallet. 

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In south Florida in the late '50s people preferred either Olds or Caddy V8s mostly with dual quads or tripower. Were a few big Fords but mostly in original cars. Mother had a 57 Ford wagon with a 430 engine (think it came from a shop in NC).

 

BTW thought the Pontiac 6 in 1966 was the OHC - US only ?

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:59 PM, Pfeil said:

I somewhat knew Studebaker used other brands engines back in the day, but for us teenagers back in the day, the Studebaker wasn't something that drew much attention. It was to us- a dead mark so we didn't pay attention. Putting a Chevrolet or Ford engine in another make to me and my friends just meant that mark was on it's way out.

 Therefore, the engine in the Pontiac posted is a Chevrolet engine that was also used by Studebaker trying to hang on just before it's demise. To us Pontiac enthusiast a Chevrolet engine in a Pontiac equals a Chevrolet, along with Powerglide, not as strong rear axle and that dangerous narrow track X frame.

A Pontiac Body on a Chevrolet chassis/suspension and powertrain = Chevrolet. Most Pontiac enthusiasts in Pontiac's heyday and die hard owners today in the states considered Canadian Pontiac's a Chevrolet.

Growing up late 40"s 50's early 60's and even through the late 60's and 70's the engine was the brand. That image was cultivated by the brand itself. Never so self evident as with the Oldsmobile engine lawsuits of the mid to late 70's.

A Canadian built Pontiac is still a Pontiac. Built and sold by GM of Canada for British Commonwealth and many other countries. Most True Pontiac enthusiasts don't exclude them.

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11 minutes ago, Ed Luddy said:

A Canadian built Pontiac is still a Pontiac. Built and sold by GM of Canada for British Commonwealth and many other countries. Most True Pontiac enthusiasts don't exclude them.

Well Ed, I've been following Pontiac for about 60+ years. I've got three Pontiac's and been to a great deal of Pontiac shows and been a member to quite a few Pontiac clubs so I'm familiar with what goes on and what's being said on the surface and beneath. There are many stories that could be told. Things have quieted down a bit with some newer people to organizations because they never grew up knowing the engine was the brand, they may or may not get the snub at a outing, but rest assured sometime they will. The clubs will tell you all is welcome, but I know better.

 I also have a 1976 Oldsmobile that I show in a unrestored survivor class and this car has a Chevrolet engine. I know all about being snubbed at a Olds event. In fact if you take a car like mine to a Olds event all you need to do is put the car on the show field  and stand back and observe and listen. For example at a zone meet where most people don't know each other and you are able to observe without someone knowing the link to you and your car you will hear all kinds of things like " it's not a Oldsmobile", "It's got the wrong engine in it", "It shouldn't be allowed" etc.

 The silent ones. They see the side of the car and they look interested, they check the interior, once they get to that engine compartment you can see the look on their faces. The other ones start at the engine compartment and take one look at the Chevy engine and  won't even look at the rest of the car, they are gone.

 Being a real Pontiac guy ( there is no Pontiac after 1981) I understand all this. 

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+1 GM did a lot of playing with both engines and transmissions. My Sunbird had a 305 Chevvy in it, still sold as a Pontiac. Transmissions were switched around A Lot particularly automagics in the 50's, fire at Hydramatic necessitated a number of changes to keep the lines going and I don't think anyone is bothered by the Ford 3-speeds.

 

Many Canadian Pontiacs (Parisiennes, Beaumonts, Acadians, & even Fireflys) are still Pontiacs, even the rebadged/reconfigured Holdens in the US this century. Pontiac said they were Pontiacs and that is enough.

 

For Pontiacs in particular the billing records say exactly what engine was installed so is documented. That said I would not consider a Vaxhaul to be a Pontiac.

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15 hours ago, padgett said:

+1 GM did a lot of playing with both engines and transmissions. My Sunbird had a 305 Chevvy in it, still sold as a Pontiac. Transmissions were switched around A Lot particularly automagics in the 50's, fire at Hydramatic necessitated a number of changes to keep the lines going and I don't think anyone is bothered by the Ford 3-speeds.

 

Many Canadian Pontiacs (Parisiennes, Beaumonts, Acadians, & even Fireflys) are still Pontiacs, even the rebadged/reconfigured Holdens in the US this century. Pontiac said they were Pontiacs and that is enough.

 

For Pontiacs in particular the billing records say exactly what engine was installed so is documented. That said I would not consider a Vaxhaul to be a Pontiac.

Or a Holden, or Canadian Pontiac. Or any Pontiac after 1981.

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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Looks like a 195 hp 2bbl 283. Consider that in the US the base engine for a 67  was a 265 hp 389 (also 2 bbl) but then you probably do not worry about AC. At least you didn't get a 6.

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1 hour ago, padgett said:

Looks like a 195 hp 2bbl 283. Consider that in the US the base engine for a 67  was a 265 hp 389 (also 2 bbl) but then you probably do not worry about AC. At least you didn't get a 6.

1966 is the last the last year for the 389. This is a 1967, so the base engine in a U.S. Real Pontiac would be a 400.

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Cold sometimes comes unexpectedly and it seems that worse could not be imagined. However, I can say that there are worse things for me - frequent rains. I hate it when I have to drive on rough terrain in the suburbs and wash the car from sticky mud with clay EVERY day. Thank God I do not live at the time to do it with my hands but just used this thing. Second thanks for moving away from the standard cowboy lifestyle on the farm. This is just iron and not a pet that requires special care in any bad weather.

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On 2/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, Frank DuVal said:

And before the SBC came out, Ford ruled the hot rod world with their flat head V-8. Lots of period soup up parts were available for that. 

 

Biggest HP for the Buck will always rule the hot rod world. People with money do what they want. The other 75% of rod builders watch their wallet. 

Before the SBC in Hot Rods were Olds and Cadillac V-8 then before them the Ford flathead, sometimes a Buick nailhead after 53, a narrow engine for a rod is a +.Post Image

Why these five cars are the greatest hot rods of the 20th century | Hemmings

image.jpeg.cc86052d6f9097f12177e0c5efb8a272.jpegoccasionally one of these> Classics: 1932 Ford Cabriolet Is a Hemi-Powered Hot Rod That's Rare and  Driven - PressFrom - US

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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In the '50s American engines were close to an art form with multiple carbs, cross rams, and even FI available from several manufacturers.

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On 2/24/2021 at 12:58 PM, Pfeil said:

1966 is the last the last year for the 389. This is a 1967, so the base engine in a U.S. Real Pontiac would be a 400.

No need to be rude. It's a Real Pontiac with documents to prove it's the original engine.

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15 minutes ago, Ed Luddy said:

No need to be rude. It's a Real Pontiac with documents to prove it's the original engine.

This is not being rude;

1966 is the last the last year for the 389. This is a 1967, so the base engine in a U.S. Real Pontiac would be a 400.

It is what it is.

 

 

  And I have this car;

I also have a 1976 Oldsmobile that I show in a unrestored survivor class and this car has a Chevrolet engine. I know all about being snubbed at a Olds event. In fact if you take a car like mine to a Olds event all you need to do is put the car on the show field  and stand back and observe and listen.

 

My Olds is what it is. It's a Chevy. I'm not being rude to myself. I accept the reality of it so it doesn't bother me. I understand the brand IS the engine. In my Olds case almost everything is Chevrolet.

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