spark plug question

[RIVNIK]

Greetings!   I seek reaffirmation on advice I was given years ago concerning the proper plugs for my '65 401. When ACDelco discontinued the recommended 43S plugs I was advised to switch to R44S, apparently the next closest available plug from AC. Any knowledge, advise, recommendations will be greatly appreciated.   Drew

[RivNut]

Search this forum for discussions on plug choice, it's been discussed before.

[RIVNIK]

snubbed

[JFranklin]

55 minutes ago, RIVNIK said:

snubbed

That really is what the search function is for. You could easily call your local car parts house or dealer and find your answer.

[Riviera63]

2 hours ago, RIVNIK said:

snubbed

 

https://forums.aaca.org/search/?q=spark plug&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=73

 

173 results for spark plug. You should be able to find the thread Ed was talking about. It has been discussed thoroughly.

[Jolly_John]

I don't get where Drew's "snubbed" comment comes from either. I had PM'd him about 15 minutes after he first posted, giving him Riv. plug application information from a slightly newer AC spark plug catalog I have. He didn't reply to my PM.....so, did he snub me?? Ha, I never thought about that! Just kidding, of course. After all, this is a great hobby, and we're fortunate to have the BUICK forum as an excellent resource. John

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jolly_John (see edit history)

[RIVNIK]

 Dear Ed, Franklin,& Bill.      Thank you all for schooling me on the proper use of a forum. You'll be happy to know I feel really stupid for asking. & now, if nobody else wants to chime in with more excellent advice, I'm gonna go eat some worms! 

 

[RIVNIK]

 Thanks John! I just found it. Appreciate your help!

 

[Riviera63]

47 minutes ago, RIVNIK said:

 Dear Ed, Franklin,& Bill.      Thank you all for schooling me on the proper use of a forum. You'll be happy to know I feel really stupid for asking. & now, if nobody else wants to chime in with more excellent advice, I'm gonna go eat some worms! 

 

Not meant to make you feel stupid. I was just trying to let you know that there was a lot of info on the topic and to give you a direct path to it without trying to explain step by step how to get there. 

 

Bill

[telriv]

Bill,

 

    Tell them the experience you have had with the plugs I recommended & sold you, IF any good or bad.

[RivNut]

21 hours ago, RIVNIK said:

snubbed

I wasn't trying to snub anyone. From my experience on this site, I've learned that when a subject is first brought up, there is a lot of discussion.  The next time, because it's been cussed and discussed to the ends of the Earth, there's very little discussion. Searching out the original threads and posts will give you a lot more information than rehashing something old.

[RIVNIK]

I realize that. comment was made somewhat in jest. I am just lazy & searching sucks.                                                   sorry

[J3Studio]

19 hours ago, RivNut said:

From my experience on this site, I've learned that when a subject is first brought up, there is a lot of discussion.  The next time, because it's been cussed and discussed to the ends of the Earth, there's very little discussion. Searching out the original threads and posts will give you a lot more information than rehashing something old.

 

That would be correct. There's relatively little new information on cars that average 42 years old.

Edited February 8, 2021 by J3Studio (see edit history)

[awk409ak]

All,

Not to drag this thread on and on, but I went back to re-read the thread I submitted on plugs (Sept. 19, 2019) and found I missed a reply from Tom and Bill.  Bill, I think stated about using; Bosch 4036, I also have seen an alternate number associated with this WR9FP.  They both said they really liked how the Bosch performed.  So it is at time useful to go back and re-read some of the old post.

 

Art

[telriv]

Just to let EVERYONE know I have been using these Bosch spark plugs for MANY years & have recommended them to lots of people. The 4036 & the WR9FP are one & the same spark plug. There are MANY reasons I have gone the way I have.  OF COURSE they were so popular that they have been

dis-continued.  Fortunately BEFORE they were no longer available I had purchased quite a few of them.

I liked them because I thought they had MANY advantages over other spark plugs. Anyone I have sold them to have been very happy with their results as far as I know.

IF someone is unhappy with them for ANY reason I would like to know your experiences one may have had with them.

1st. off they DON'T carry the LARGE amount of $$$ most "Platinum" spark plugs of this type carry, single tip Platinum.  They are a Multi heat range plug. Meaning they will just about cover ALL the heat ranges most of our "Nails" need. So no more confusion over which heat range is good for your application. They take 1/2 the amount of voltage to fire IF you have GOOD spark plug wires.  Meaning that you could open up the gap to .050" plus to further help fully combust the air fuel mixture. NONE of this date coded crap being sold. Of course they WON'T solve malidies that already may exist. I have been using the Taylor Spiro Pro wires, 8mm, that will fit in the stock 7mm wire holders, that you make up yourself, for MANY years so you can route them the PROPER way to the EXACT length needed. They come in straight, 45*, 90* & 135* plug wire ends already installed & ALL you have to make up are the distributor cap ends which come with regular & HEI termnal ends & boots. So they will cover at least 90% + applications. IF you want to get fancy you could install the little numbers that slip over both ends of the wire so there is NO confusion over which wire goes where when wires are removed. AND you can get REAL fancy if  you run the wires behind the heads like on '53-'56 "Nails". Cleans up the look of the engine compartment. They are pretty much self cleaning.  IF they get fouled most times ALL that's nec. is to use the vehicle. I have installed them in MANY diff. cars over the past 15-20 years all with positive results.  The set on my Riv. are at least 20 Years old, including the spark plugs.

Just my Nickels for what it may be worth.

 

Tom T.

[Seafoam65]

Who told you that R43S plugs are discontinued?

They are for sale all over the internet from every known new car parts provider.

43S plugs are discontinued......the R43S is the same plug designed for elimination of interference on your car's radio......works the same as the 43S with the added benefit of less radio static. That being said, a car that you drive sparingly only on short trips or with a high mileage engine, which is the way most collector cars are driven are better off with a hotter spark plug. If it were my car I'd go with

R45S spark plugs.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I think Tom's saying the Bosch plugs have been discontinued. At least that's how I read it

27 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

Who told you that R43S plugs are discontinued?

They are for sale all over the internet from every known new car parts provider.

43S plugs are discontinued......the R43S is the same plug designed for elimination of interference on your car's radio......works the same as the 43S with the added benefit of less radio static. That being said, a car that you drive sparingly only on short trips or with a high mileage engine, which is the way most collector cars are driven are better off with a hotter spark plug. If it were my car I'd go with

R45S spark plugs.

 

[telriv]

Ed is CORRECT. I didn't mention ANYTHING  about A/C plugs. You either read that wrong or somehow mis-interpited.

[gungeey]

Per Factory Service Manual 44S is the correct plug as originally equipped is readily available. Can never argue with original equipment

 

45S for low speed city driving, if 44S found to fouling. 45S extended full speed throttle may result in damaged pistons.

 

AC R44S is a direct replacement for 44S

 

Never saw 43S mentioned in the Owners Manual or factory service Manual.

 

Any info to the contrary (whether Champion/Autolite/Bosch/Mitsubishi/Walmart brand) is free advice taken at one's own peril.

 

Funny thing about internet info, once one computer expert makes a claim, it's repeated over and over again til it becomes gospel

 

Steve

 

[1965rivgs]

21 minutes ago, gungeey said:

Per Factory Service Manual 44S is the correct plug as originally equipped is readily available. Can never argue with original equipment

 

45S for low speed city driving, if 44S found to fouling. 45S extended full speed throttle may result in damaged pistons.

 

AC R44S is a direct replacement for 44S

 

Never saw 43S mentioned in the Owners Manual or factory service Manual.

 

Any info to the contrary (whether Champion/Autolite/Bosch/Mitsubishi/Walmart brand) is free advice taken at one's own peril.

 

Funny thing about internet info, once one computer expert makes a claim, it's repeated over and over again til it becomes gospel

 

Steve

 

  Correct....I suspect the original poster was referring to the R44`s. And yes, alot of copy and paste experts out there....comes with the territory.

Tom

[Seafoam65]

Going one heat range hotter from R44S to R45S is not going to ruin any pistons! My GTO has had R45S

plugs in it for 50 years.......pistons are still fine.

[gungeey]

4 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

Going one heat range hotter from R44S to R45S is not going to ruin any pistons! My GTO has had R45S

plugs in it for 50 years.......pistons are still fine.

 

 

Does it have a Nailhead in it?

[telriv]

R45S will not harm anything for anyone, especially the way these "Classic" vehicles are used today. Where one MAY run into a problem is during high demand, high speed driving/running. Maybe like driving to an ROA event many miles away which they are not normally associated with. IE trailing/towing heavy loads, a house trailer for instance, etc. drag racing, then again drag racing is usually only for a short period of time or any high speed, high demand, high load operations that demand more high load/demand/heat stresses on ANY engine. That's one of the many reasons I personally like the Bosch spark plugs.

[awk409ak]

telriv,

 

So the date coded wire are not any good to use.  Should use the 8mm wires

 

Art

[telriv]

Art & ALL,

 

    For ANYONE who has purchased the carbon core date coded wires. Do yourself a favor. Get an Ohm meter, learn how to use it properly.  Then measure the resistance of the wire end to end at the connectors.  It should not be ANY MORE than 5000 Ohms per foot. Pull the coil wire 1st. & test. Couldn't be any longer than one foot at the most??? probably less. ALMOST willing to bet it's a bit more than 5000 ohms. Then check the rest.  The supplier will more than likely NOT cover under ANY WARRANTY.  I have run into this so many times you wouldn't believe it.

    I'm doing a rebuild of a 425 GS Riv. Told the owner the plug wires were NG. He says they CAN'T be. Of course there is much other stuff to do in the rebuilding of this engine so I wasn't worried as eventually he would be at the shop & I could show him 1st. hand.  I told him to do a search on testing plug wires. When he finally showed up he bought his OWN test meter & tested the wires himself. He called the company & they basically told him to pound sand.  I used the wires I normally use, which are the 8mm.  In the quest to make EVERYTHING look as stock as possible I used the 7mm boots on the ditributor cap end & the 7mm boots with the cover the spark plug hole on the 8mm wires.  Now try getting 7mm boots on 8mm wires. I got it done, BUT I can't tell you the amount of time spent during this.  How can you charge for the amount of time it takes to do it right??? It's not as simple as one may think, even using silicone spray to help with the sliding on of the boots & getting the wires to show ONLY the black & NOT any writing.  Takes time, lots of time.

    As an example. A friend of mine did a nut & bolt restoration on an otherwise pretty nice solid car that his Dad bought when it was ONLY 6 months old.  ANYTHING used was NOS & properly dated coded replacement parts only.  When the engine was put up on the run stand it appeared to operate flawlessly.  In the vehicle it would fart, backfire & run VERY POORLY under a light load. He had used the date coded wires to match his vehicles build date.  This is how anal he got. When it was time, WAY BEFORE NEEDED, he even sourced the proper date coded exhaust pipes, tailpipes & mufllers.  I know how much was spent & the amount of time it took him to FIND all these parts.

   Told him to check all the date coded wires.   He & the assembly man both said it CAN'T be the wires as they are brand new, NEVER installed on the vehicle. Well after replacing the mufflers twice I told him AGAIN to Ohm test the wires. At this point there was NO WAY he was going to be lucky enough to find a new pair of mufflers with the proper numbers & date codes.

Guess what??? The new date coded wires were NG & DIDN'T pass the test, mainly the 6" coil wire. AS of this day he HASN'T been able to find the proper mufllers because of a bad coil wire. After they replaced the coil wire it was ALMOST OK.  Told both he & his mechanic to check the rest & they were better BUT they DIDN'T pass the test either. He called the company he got them from & you know what they told him????  POUND SAND!!!!!

Now we're talking about 1K in muflers blown/ripped apart  because of a defective coil wire.  

     The carbon wires go bad sitting on the self.

This is not the 1st. time I know this has happened. Has even happened to myself many times.

    Just a word of WARNING.  DON'T take ANYTHING for granted. The seemingly simplest operation can wreck havic on the whole outcome.

Just my dimes worth. Take it for what it is.

 

Tom T.

Edited April 18, 2021 by telriv (see edit history)

[awk409ak]

Telriv,

Thank you, thank you!  Thank you for your expertise, much appreciated.   I guess one could carry the original dated code wires, air filter and other items that are easy to install and install them at concourse type show.  That not something I would do, but....

 

Thank again,

Art

[Turbinator]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:51 AM, telriv said:

That's one of the many reasons I personally like the Bosch spark plugs.

Tom, I like Bosch plugs in my Nailhead. Thank you for setting the gap on the plugs and installing the plugs. The engine runs just peachy.

Turbinator

[RIVNIK]

These are the gems you won't find on a search.                  The defense rests.

[RivNut]

Tom T.  addressed the use of the Bosch plugs back on February 8th. Very in depth about gap, etc.

[Chasander]

Tom

whats the model number on the “Taylor Spiro Pro wires “you use or do you buy in bulk. They make a lot of wires for different cars, but not for our engines. 

[RivNut]

Google "Taylor Spiro pro spark plug wire 8mm" and you will find a chart that gives you choices: number of cylinders, color of wire, and boot configuration (180° hemi. 180°, 135°, 90°). Once you narrow it down, you can figure out the part number.  I'm running spark plug covers on my engine some want 8 cylinder, 90°, black so I should buy kit #73051.  You probably want 180° boots so you'd want kit #73055. Very simple chart to follow.

[Chasander]

401 425 engine distributor has 4 90 degree connectors, to passenger side bank of cylinders, and 4 straight connectors, to drivers side bank. I was wondering if he had found a part number with this configuration or was making wires from bulk lengths. 

[telriv]

Are we talking about the '63 Riv. or the '66GS???  The only one I know is the '66 Riv. GS had that kind of set-up.

Ask JZRIV he would know more than I on the '66 Riv. GS. 

Since the plug ends are already done you have to install the distributor ends & both straight & 90* distributor ends are included. You will need a tool to make up the ends.

 

Tom T.

Edited April 26, 2021 by telriv (see edit history)

[RivNut]

In a recent thread or reference to an older thread are Jim Cannon’s measurements for the length of each plug wire.  I assume that’s using factory looms and factory routing.

Edited April 26, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I’ve got my fingers crossed. I got a close out notification from Rockauto. Looking through the items I found Bosch Sparkplugs with the WR9FP identification. They were $.88 each so I ordered 16. When they get here, I’ll let you know more.

[awk409ak]

Well, I ordered them too.  So we will see.

 

Art

[awk409ak]

So I got my plugs today from Rock Auto.  They are the Bosch 4236, not the 4036.  What is the difference.  I also read on the Bosch website that these are NOT compatible with my car.  Any thoughts.

 

Art

[telriv]

4036 were replaced with 4236. There have been two upgrades to these over the years with diff. numbers. One & the same.  I've been using them for about 20 or so years now.

 

Tom T.

[BulldogDriver]

4236 is a WR9FP  Spark plug. Tom T has referenced them in the past as 4236’s so he must have typo’d 4036. I also ordered 2 more sets. And they are put away safely.

 

Ray 

5 minutes ago, telriv said:

4036 were replaced with 4236. There have been two upgrades to these over the years with diff. numbers. One & the same.  I've been using them for about 20 or so years now.

 

Tom T.

Or that.

 

Ray

[telriv]

Believe me Ray that was no typo.

 

Tom T.