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Is this 1934 Packard correct?


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9 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Green theme, continued..

 

I would love to see this car in the darker shade with only the beltline in the lighter green as an accent.

20181013_105254.jpg

 

I saw this car at many shows back when I lived in the DC area -- it was a regular at the Rockville MD show in October -- and I thought in person the wild colors actually kinda worked.  Although it may just be that I wanted to see 34 Packards so badly that I was happy to see it, as there were only a small number around. :)

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
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Another in the 'for whatever it is worth' department. Over fifty years ago, when I was still in high school, I bought my first 'antique automobile'. It was a 1929 Reo Flying Cloud master model C semi-sport coupe. It was a fairly decent original car with a '50s repaint to all blue. However, in places here and there, the original green showed through. And it was almost all green. The body, the fenders, side aprons, mohair upholstery (was really NICE original!), and even the leather rumble seat cushions were green.

About five years later, I sold the car as I had decided 1929 was just a bit too modern for my liking. If I had kept it, and restored it? I was planning on going back to the original all green body and fenders (I would have preserved that interior, and even the rumble seat leather was pretty good).

Within most reason? I like to have cars very close to how they were when they were 'the car'.

 

I find it interesting that Reo had all green as early as 1929. But there were a number of colorful offerings in the late 1920s. I know Buick had some bright colors on their sport roadsters and touring cars. A couple friends have owned those, and I have seen the literature. My 1927 Paige 6-45 sedan was originally black over green over blue over black. Not really bright, but rather colorful.

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Unusual colors back in the late 20’s and early 30’s were occasionally seen, often times they were show cars. A lot of the crazy colored cars that were displayed in the states, were actually delivered in those colors to customers in India. There were some really funky metallic silver‘s and several brilliant red cars all done by Pierce Arrow for delivery to the Raja rulers of India. Several of them still survive. The biggest problem with the crazy colors which durability. High metallic paints seem to turn into mud in less than 36 months. The monochrome silver high metallic 1931 Pierce Arrow Series 42 Dual Cowl Phaeton with Budd Stainless Artillery Wheels, that had a powder blue interior leather with matching light blue top was delivered in those colors to India. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Perhaps Walt can help me with this.  I understand that circa 1926-1927, technological progress in the printing industry made color advertisements in magazines much cheaper than they had been.  Accordingly, in the late 1920s there were color magazines ads for many cars, especially the Lincoln "exotic birds" series, in incredibly vivid, saturated colors Not Found in Nature nor in standard factory offerings.

 

About 30 years ago, a 633/733 Packard phaeton owner painted in three shades of purple frequently displayed his car at the Palo Alto Concours in Calif, and with it a framed magazine ad of the same car in the same colors, which he had specified when he had the car restored.  That was so jarring that I vowed to never rely on advertising art for authenticity.

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I think this wins the prize for worst color combination ever.   Baby blue & orange.   Photo from the 1960s.    Car is a 1930 Packard 733 dual cowl phaeton.   How much you want to bet the body is now on a 740 or 745 chassis?    

 

image.thumb.png.bf71a8ef8002a819e85655dd0b4f67bb.png

Edited by K8096 (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

Interesting that you posted the red 1934 LeBaron. I have some Packard literature somewhere that specifically states that "poly" was not available on the LeBarons. Yet, Nethercutts painted theirs with "poly." As for the yellow car, they painted that one to match one of the Packard illustrations. A mistake, in my opinion.

 

On the tour of the car collection, it was stated these were “original colors” of the cars. Their Merle Norman Cosmetics company used the red shade to make lipstick and nail polish. My wife bought the lipstick. That really revs my engine!

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15 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Vegas trip 297.jpg

I first saw this car in 2010 when I visited the National Car Museum where it is now.  

 

Previously, there was a photo of it in an Automobile Quarterly from 1968 when it was owned by Andrew Hotten, if it is the same car.  It was those exterior door handles on it that always struck me as odd.

 

Craig

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9 hours ago, Steve9 said:

On the tour of the car collection, it was stated these were “original colors” of the cars. Their Merle Norman Cosmetics company used the red shade to make lipstick and nail polish. My wife bought the lipstick. That really revs my engine!

So Mary Kay had to come out with a line of her products in Mountain Laurel.  And if her distributors sold enough, they received the use of a brand new Cadillac in the same color.

 

Craig

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10 hours ago, Grimy said:

Perhaps Walt can help me with this.  I understand that circa 1926-1927, technological progress in the printing industry made color advertisements in magazines much cheaper than they had been.  Accordingly, in the late 1920s there were color magazines ads for many cars, especially the Lincoln "exotic birds" series, in incredibly vivid, saturated colors Not Found in Nature nor in standard factory offerings.

 

About 30 years ago, a 633/733 Packard phaeton owner painted in three shades of purple frequently displayed his car at the Palo Alto Concours in Calif, and with it a framed magazine ad of the same car in the same colors, which he had specified when he had the car restored.  That was so jarring that I vowed to never rely on advertising art for authenticity.

George, the magazine advertisements of the 1926 era on up , especially in the 1927-28 era featured many cars in wild ., bright , colors. It was for one reason only - to sell cars! For the most part the same colors rarely appeared in the company issued sales literature ( often printed by someone they hired to do so , was not an in house activity) They wanted to see car sales in volume, just like today, and by 1929 over a decade after the troops had returned home from WWI the USA saw the most cars sold in one year- ever. I would guesstimate that perhaps, maybe 20% of the time the magazine advertisements had a color on a car that was even close to what the factory offered as available on a standard basis if you really wanted to purchase a car. Fancy cars in fancy bright colors were what were on the showroom floor that you saw through the showroom windows. Many showroom floor cars had accessories as well - that accessory on the car saw a huge profit margin for the dealership. Perspective customers were attracted to "fancy" but most often bought conservative - very conservative.

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16 minutes ago, Walt G said:

George, the magazine advertisements of the 1926 era on up , especially in the 1927-28 era featured many cars in wild ., bright , colors. It was for one reason only - to sell cars! For the most part the same colors rarely appeared in the company issued sales literature ( often printed by someone they hired to do so , was not an in house activity) They wanted to see car sales in volume, just like today, and by 1929 over a decade after the troops had returned home from WWI the USA saw the most cars sold in one year- ever. I would guesstimate that perhaps, maybe 20% of the time the magazine advertisements had a color on a car that was even close to what the factory offered as available on a standard basis if you really wanted to purchase a car. Fancy cars in fancy bright colors were what were on the showroom floor that you saw through the showroom windows. Many showroom floor cars had accessories as well - that accessory on the car saw a huge profit margin for the dealership. Perspective customers were attracted to "fancy" but most often bought conservative - very conservative.

Keep in mind also, the cost of color separation and 4-color reproduction decreased remarkably in the mid-twenties as so many advertisers wanted full color ads in magazines, which made it affordable and more common.  Naturally, advertisers took full advantage of the opportunity and made the most colorful and splashiest full color ads they could muster.

 

Craig

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Like most threads this one got sidetracked rather quickly. I find it interesting that so many experts chimed in immediately that the car was a 'Fake'. Even though a magazine article was presented fairly early on in the thread explaining the in question automobile and then Packard Man chimed in with a statement that he knows the car is def. authentic. Mostly crickets after those posts. Just because a car may trade owners in the 7 or 8 figure price range, doesnt really mean that they wont be taken outside and shown some places. Personally, I think the car is absolutely beautiful as is. No offense to any Packard, or even classic car owners but they all seem to have chrome grilles. The painted one sets it apart from the others.

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1 minute ago, TAKerry said:

Like most threads this one got sidetracked rather quickly. I find it interesting that so many experts chimed in immediately that the car was a 'Fake'. Even though a magazine article was presented fairly early on in the thread explaining the in question automobile and then Packard Man chimed in with a statement that he knows the car is def. authentic. Mostly crickets after those posts. Just because a car may trade owners in the 7 or 8 figure price range, doesnt really mean that they wont be taken outside and shown some places. Personally, I think the car is absolutely beautiful as is. No offense to any Packard, or even classic car owners but they all seem to have chrome grilles. The painted one sets it apart from the others.

Great post!

 

I believe there were more than a few 1938 Packards which had the louvers painted body color.   I have seen at least two, including one in the Petersen Museum.

 

Craig

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Packard in the 1930s had more options than you might suspect.  Chrome hood doors? painted grill shells rather than chrome? wood wheels up until 1936? full chrome disc wheels? Never say never when it comes to 1930's Packards.

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15 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Great post!

 

I believe there were more than a few 1938 Packards which had the louvers painted body color.   I have seen at least two, including one in the Petersen Museum.

 

Craig

 

All Senior 1938 Packards came standard with every other louver painted.

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28 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Like most threads this one got sidetracked rather quickly. I find it interesting that so many experts chimed in immediately that the car was a 'Fake'. Even though a magazine article was presented fairly early on in the thread explaining the in question automobile and then Packard Man chimed in with a statement that he knows the car is def. authentic. Mostly crickets after those posts. Just because a car may trade owners in the 7 or 8 figure price range, doesnt really mean that they wont be taken outside and shown some places. Personally, I think the car is absolutely beautiful as is. No offense to any Packard, or even classic car owners but they all seem to have chrome grilles. The painted one sets it apart from the others.

 

Yes the below car is real.   There are 4 of the "runabout" speedsters.   Each in very large collections.   The article states that both cars are owned by the Lee collection which would make it one of the real ones. 

 

https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2021_02/image.thumb.png.5fc3d10865e57438dc1ba0f8c191b533.png

 

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On 2/4/2021 at 6:30 AM, edinmass said:

I know the owners of three of the real ones..........and theirs are not green...........so now the math is narrowed down to one in eight.

 

The Lee car is Green with that radiator treatment so I guess the percentages went way up.    I'm surprised by  that treatment and would like to see a period picture.

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7 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

My bad. I knew one of the green ones was real, and I guess I just couldn't believe someone would do that grille treatment to a real car... even though it was a factory option.

 

If I remember correctly,  each of the 4 is painted something that would never be found on any other Packard which would naturally make you wonder to begin with.

 

AND to further muddy the waters, when I saw the phaeton behind it I assumed it was this new coachwork car:

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj15/motor-city/lots/r147-1933-packard-twelve-individual-custom-sport-phaeton-in-the-style-of-lebaron/180427

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11 hours ago, Steve9 said:

On the tour of the car collection, it was stated these were “original colors” of the cars. Their Merle Norman Cosmetics company used the red shade to make lipstick and nail polish. My wife bought the lipstick. That really revs my engine!

 

Either they said "original" and were wrong, or they said "original" and meant "authentic." Either way, the LeBaron phaeton was NOT available with poly (metallic today) paint.

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44 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Packard in the 1930s had more options than you might suspect.  Chrome hood doors? painted grill shells rather than chrome? wood wheels up until 1936? full chrome disc wheels? Never say never when it comes to 1930's Packards.

 

 

Never say never? I will.

 

I have never seen a Packard Individual Custom Dietrich or LeBaron I don't like. There...I said it! Bet you can't find fault with the statement! 😇

 

 

 

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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1931 Second Series Graham was the first to offer color match fenders as a factory option, I believe it was a $3.50 cost.  The 1932 Graham Blue Streak came with color match frame option but that was short lived (1932 only).  I have seen Graham cars with the grill insert painted, but never as a factory option, they were always back or brightwork.

 

they never look correct

See the source image

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I thought I would include a picture of the 1955 Studebaker Speedster that craig alluded to. The were built as a show car and an attention getter by a company not able to afford the specialty cars that GM was showing. Later built in limited quantities (2215) in other stark color combinations. I've owned eight over the years, still have my first that I got in 1964, but it's a black and white, three tone. Today the color is much prized in the Studebaker world, but I've often asked myself who would have bought it as a new car? I know i wouldn't have wanted to stand out this way. men love it women another story.

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6 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

If I remember correctly,  each of the 4 is painted something that would never be found on any other Packard which would naturally make you wonder to begin with.

 

AND to further muddy the waters, when I saw the phaeton behind it I assumed it was this new coachwork car:

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj15/motor-city/lots/r147-1933-packard-twelve-individual-custom-sport-phaeton-in-the-style-of-lebaron/180427

I believe that one (Fran Roxas reproduction) is in Detroit.

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15 hours ago, 8E45E said:

So Mary Kay had to come out with a line of her products in Mountain Laurel.  And if her distributors sold enough, they received the use of a brand new Cadillac in the same color.

 

Craig

 

Not just Cadillacs, although I think only the Cadillacs are Mary Kay pink.

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On 2/4/2021 at 11:13 PM, Steve9 said:

On the tour of the car collection, it was stated these were “original colors” of the cars. Their Merle Norman Cosmetics company used the red shade to make lipstick and nail polish. My wife bought the lipstick. That really revs my engine!


I know for a fact cars in the main salon cars are not their original color........not even close. They have fantastic cars.....but they take lots of liberties when they restore them. I think today they tend to be more conservative with their restorations.

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8 hours ago, CHuDWah said:

 

Not just Cadillacs, although I think only the Cadillacs are Mary Kay pink.

I think a 'junior' distributor could earn the use of a Buick Regal coupe in that some color.  I recall a brand new one parked on the street in 1980.

 

I have posted these photos before in a different thread, but there were 97 1969 Cougars made for Rocky Mountain Life Insurance Company in a special Ford fleet color.

 

 

 

Craig

69_Cougar_1.jpg

69_Cougar_2.jpg

69_Cougar_3.jpg

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Al, I have attached a factory photo courtesy of the Detroit Public Library.  Not proof positive, but it looks to me like this car has the painted shell, rad louvers and painted headlight buckets.  Too bad it is not a coloured photo.67320513_ScreenShot2013-12-17at2_45_25PM.thumb.png.e00f97f0019daa3577e4782bc7c4eb12.png

 

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Packard12man.........it's probably barf brown. Wasn't one of them a muddy bronze/brown color originally?

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45 minutes ago, packard12man said:

Al, I have attached a factory photo courtesy of the Detroit Public Library.  Not proof positive, but it looks to me like this car has the painted shell, rad louvers and painted headlight buckets.  Too bad it is not a coloured photo.67320513_ScreenShot2013-12-17at2_45_25PM.thumb.png.e00f97f0019daa3577e4782bc7c4eb12.png

 

 

Looks like "proof positive" to me. Headlight buckets are painted, too, just as in the green car.

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