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I have been in touch with Bob Lester, (BobinVirginia).  He is truly sorry for what happened.  He said it was completely out of character for him and he let his emotions get the best of him when confronted by another member on the Forum.  He told me he has been going through a very difficult time in his life, and that day was one of the worst he has ever had.  It culminated with his meltdown on the Forum after being challenged and confronted by another member.  He regrets taking the bait and now realizes that he should have walked away. 

 

He told he he had made several friends through AACA and he hoped they won't hold his one bad day against him forever.  He asked me to convey to everyone that he is deeply sorry that what he did resulted in the deletion of the American Underslung thread.  He wishes he could live that day all over again with what he knows now, as it would be completely different.  I was going to try and post this on the What Happened to the AU Thread, but now it has been closed to any new posts.  Regards, George

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I'm one of the friends Bob made in the forums, and have had text conversations with him the day following the exchange and yesterday.  What the OP reported above was also Bob's message to me.  He had just finished a 14-hr shift that he didn't want (he mentioned that to me in a PM before the incident) and learned of a medical issue that would likely affect his livelihood.  I want to also point out that the OP of *this* thread (thank you, George!) posted at ~0400 that day (more than 12 hrs before Bob weighed in) that the thread was getting too political and should probably be closed or deleted.  As the day went on, when I winced when I saw new posts and wondered why the thread was still open.  Looked to me like a couple of members, including Bob, were taking potshots at each other 'way outside civil discourse on car-related issues that we all come here for.

 

Let's all learn from this episode.  I know Bob has.  I *most strongly* recommend that he be allowed back in after a suspension, even if that means letting him in under a different user name.

 

My 34 years of gov't service, military and civilian, taught me the principles of "progressive discipline" that should be applied in this case.

 

 

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Yes, I really liked him. A LOT. I agree that he should be allowed back amongst us. Who knows how other people  handle extreme stress. I experienced high altitude dementia decades ago high on an Ecuadorean volcano. Never had any problems at that altitude before, (or since, for that matter). I became very paranoid and would have hated to be permanently branded by the temporary lapse. Please, powers that be : reinstate Bob at an appropriate time. Poor Bob. He needs us now more than ever, and certainly has suffered too much recently. Our George’s have made a convincing advocacy for Bob ; reading and considering their presentation of Bob’s case, I move for kindness , and loving understanding to be accorded. I must believe this provocation will never be repeated again.     Thank you,    -   Carl 

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We all can and have had bad days. I really enjoyed Bob's posts and support and really enjoyed the American-Underslung thread. Fortunately I missed the part were it turned south. 

 

I believe everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt. Its a very stressful time we live in. I pray that the circumstances that were weighing so heavily on Bob will be eased and that he knows that he and his family are in our thoughts and prayers and that he knows he has friends here and that we wish him the best. Will I be upset and angry if the powers that be decide not to reinstate him? No, but I will be disappointed and saddened at the loss. Sometimes its very hard to understand what people are going through and how it affects them. I remember well standing outside my classroom greeting students. One student, wearing a hoodie and trying to hide from the world walked in. I told him how happy I was to see him. He paused, lifted his hood and said to me "thank you mister Harper, that's the only nice thing anyone has said to me today." Sometimes that's all we need. I nice word, a simple hello, and yes, an act of forgiveness. If we learn nothing else during this mortal existence its learning from our mistakes and forgiving other's for theirs.

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The AACA forum universe is not a democracy - no one has a vote.  Decisions are centralized in a single individual.

 

Destruction of forum content created by people who are NOT misbehaving is exceedingly poor stewardship of public trust.

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On 2/9/2021 at 8:53 AM, StanleyRegister said:

The AACA forum universe is not a democracy - no one has a vote.  Decisions are centralized in a single individual.

 

Not accurate:  There are multiple administrators and moderators.

I'll bet you assume I banned the individual in question. You're wrong.  Steve Moskowitz did. Steve is the Exec Dir of AACA.

 

On 2/9/2021 at 8:53 AM, StanleyRegister said:

Destruction of forum content created by people who are NOT misbehaving is exceedingly poor stewardship of public trust.

 

Your assumption is the individual was not misbehaving. Steve banning him is proof that he was WAY out of line in his political posts.

 

----

 

Banning is "SELDOM" done around here, and is not done lightly or hastily. The individual earned it.
The individual has been provided instructions on how to get reinstated. He's chosen not to follow those instructions.

 

If you want to bitch about the job we do around here, please... call me:  Peter 520-247-5918

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:53 AM, StanleyRegister said:

Destruction of forum content created by people who are NOT misbehaving is exceedingly poor stewardship of public trust.

 

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Your assumption is the individual was not misbehaving. Steve banning him is proof that he was WAY out of line in his political posts.

I understood the quote, "people who are NOT misbehaving" to represent those whose innocent contributions on the thread were deleted along with the entire thread.

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On 2/4/2021 at 9:06 PM, Terry Harper said:

We all can and have had bad days. I really enjoyed Bob's posts and support and really enjoyed the American-Underslung thread. Fortunately I missed the part were it turned south. 

 

I believe everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt. Its a very stressful time we live in. I pray that the circumstances that were weighing so heavily on Bob will be eased and that he knows that he and his family are in our thoughts and prayers and that he knows he has friends here and that we wish him the best. Will I be upset and angry if the powers that be decide not to reinstate him? No, but I will be disappointed and saddened at the loss. Sometimes its very hard to understand what people are going through and how it affects them. I remember well standing outside my classroom greeting students. One student, wearing a hoodie and trying to hide from the world walked in. I told him how happy I was to see him. He paused, lifted his hood and said to me "thank you mister Harper, that's the only nice thing anyone has said to me today." Sometimes that's all we need. I nice word, a simple hello, and yes, an act of forgiveness. If we learn nothing else during this mortal existence its learning from our mistakes and forgiving other's for theirs.

We all have crosses to bear. Some are heavier than others. On some days the weight may seem unbearable. That's when we need to step up from time to time and help shoulder each other's burdens.

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58 minutes ago, TexasJohn55 said:

 

I understood the quote, "people who are NOT misbehaving" to represent those whose innocent contributions on the thread were deleted along with the entire thread.

 

I understand your interpretation.  I suspect you're right.

 

I agree that the distraction of the entire topic in question was an unintended consequence of the individual being banned for blatantly breaking the forum rules. Unfortunately there is no reversing the process, or I would have already.

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3 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Banning is "SELDOM" done around here, and is not done lightly or hastily. The individual earned it.
The individual has been provided instructions on how to get reinstated. He's chosen not to follow those instructions.

 

Hello Peter,

 

I understand the tough position a moderator can be and I appreciate all you do to keep the discourse civil and on track.

 

So based on the above quote there is a process that allows for reinstatement? That's very good to know. I guess at this point its in his ball court. I also understand fully the frustration caused by the thread being removed in its entirety thus loosing a lot of great information. I am curious to know if there is any changes (outside of staying civil)  that could be made that would prevent the total loss of a thread in the event of a banning. 

 

As you well know these threads take on a life of their own with one person's post triggering a memory or a desire to share photos or information. Unfortunately once that is broken its very difficult to get it started again.

 

Again, thank you for all you do!

 

 

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It's actually pretty simple.

 

1.  I contributed solid research, information and photos to a forum thread.

2.  I followed forum rules and protocol.

3.  An administrator or moderator destroyed my contribution.

 

The name of the person who destroyed it is immaterial, as well as which other forum members needed punishment.

 

The rules and procedures that caused the destruction of my work are still in place. 

 

Any future contribution has the potential to be subjected to the same treatment.

 

Why would I contribute any more?

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6 minutes ago, StanleyRegister said:

It's actually pretty simple.

 

1.  I contributed solid research, information and photos to a forum thread.

2.  I followed forum rules and protocol.

3.  An administrator or moderator destroyed my contribution.

 

The name of the person who destroyed it is immaterial, as well as which other forum members needed punishment.

 

The rules and procedures that caused the destruction of my work are still in place. 

 

Any future contribution has the potential to be subjected to the same treatment.

 

Why would I contribute any more?

 

The guy who deleted that Underslung thread has repeatedly admitted his mistake and that he didn't even think that it would destroy the thread and has apologized profusely for it, up to and including making a new thread just to say he is sorry. Those who run this forum are discussing ways to prevent this from happening again. They had an emergency call to make when someone grossly violated the rules and didn't have time to check every thread he started to make sure something significant wasn't lost. Accidents happen and I'll assume you also have your share of regrets. It certainly wasn't intentional. It's simply the way the software works--remove the first post and all the others vanish with it.

 

 

Contribute or don't, but worrying that someone else will be banned and you will once again lose any contributions to that person's threads seems like it should be pretty low on the list of things to worry about.

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3 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

It's actually pretty simple.

 

1.  I contributed solid research, information and photos to a forum thread.

2.  I followed forum rules and protocol.

3.  An administrator or moderator destroyed my contribution.

 

The name of the person who destroyed it is immaterial, as well as which other forum members needed punishment.

 

The rules and procedures that caused the destruction of my work are still in place. 

 

Any future contribution has the potential to be subjected to the same treatment.

 

Why would I contribute any more?

 

There are over 2,000,000 posts, 350,000 topics from over 20 years.  90,000 users.
But the moderators ban someone for good reason, and inadvertently delete a long topic unintentionally, and apologized for it, and you're gonna damn the entire forum forever?
Not much we can do in that situation.

Not even sure why you use the forum at all anymore if you feel that way.

 

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Gentlemen.............Bob is back, some of the photos have been reposted, and things are good in the world again. The thread disappeared by unintended consequences...........nobody died, nobody was hurt. I understand the frustration of the people who took the time to post there.........but is it worth getting you blood pressure up? Now the powers to be understand the thread can not be recovered when certain criteria occur. I’m certain it won’t happen again. That’s why Peter G gets the BIG money!  I say we all just take a deep breath, be thankful for everything  we have, and the slow but positive recovery from the Covid we are experiencing. Things are getting better in the car world........let’s keep the wave rolling in the same direction. Best to all........

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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@StanleyRegister

 

Your content was very much appreciated and I hope to see more from you! Unfortunately, I put the moderators of the forum and contributors to the thread in a bad position. My apologies to both parties involved. It was a mistake I made that set forth the unintentional deletion of the thread. 

Edited by BobinVirginia (see edit history)
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