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Shocked watching TV on a cold day


Joe in Canada
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I watched an addition of Antique Road Show Vintage where they appeased a 1914 Packard pedal car in original very nice condition. In 2006 it was appeased at $6,000 to $9,000. on ARS. Then they showed the value for 2021 that shocked me at $1,500 to $ $2,500. Has the market been that bad for pedal cars were prices are crashing or is ARS out of tune with to-days market. 

I have also noticed there have been a large number of private car collections the past year auctioned off. Maybe people with large assets ( not calling it investment) in cars getting worried about recouping their cash.  

Yes I know we have beaten this topic to no ends but I was shocked when I watched the 1914 Packard toy appraisal. 

I myself bought a couple of very nice Victorian pieces that I always admired and made the plunge last year on them with the very depressed antique furniture market. I may now buy a couple of early pedal cars if the price is right.   

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My wife and I have always wanted a nice grandfather clock, but never really had the money to spare. About two months ago, she was looking through Facebook marketplace and found several for sale, cheap, and not selling. One turned out to be a longtime collector only a few miles from our house, that was fairly well known for rebuilding them and doing good work.

He is elderly, and reducing his collection. She was disappointed when the one she saw for sale disappeared from the listing. A couple days later, the ad returned, price dropped from $150 down to $100. And for that, he delivered it and set it up in our living room. Now, the clock isn't as old as I wish it was, I would really like one a couple hundred years old. But it is a well known and collectable clock older than I am! And it looks beautiful. Ten to fifteen years ago, clocks like it were selling for $800 to $1000. 

I think like Ed in Mass/Florida says about collectable cars. The best stuff will hold their desirability and value. Other stuff? The coming "new Normal".

 

Another consideration. All collectables have a nasty habit of running cycles and hot interest from time to time. I have seen and dealt with this on model T parts many times. Ten years ago, I needed a brass era model T engine pan (narrow nose style) for a car I was working on. I hunted, I looked in classifieds, websites, and searched swap meets. Rough ones were selling for three to five hundred each! I saw nice ones sell for six to eight hundred dollars! I simply could NOT afford that! But one of my skill sets is that I can fix or make almost anything if I need to. So I found two, one on eBad, the other by a fellow I have known for many years that sells a lot of good antique car parts. He is a good guy to know, he KNOWS what his stuff is worth, and doesn't sell cheap. But you always KNOW that it is worth what he is asking, and it is what he says it is. (He really knows his stuff!) Both were really pretty bad. Broken, and bent, but fairly good metal. I paid about $150 each. I spent hours repairing and straightening them, and ended up with two nice early pans.

Of course, my luck and bad timing. About three years later, so many people dug out the extras they had and flooded the market that prices on early pans plunged! The friend I bought one from, had two nice ones at a swap meet for fifty bucks apiece, and couldn't sell either one. At that same swap meet, another friend was helping to settle the estate of a longtime hobbyist, and had a whole stack of early pans. He was selling good pans for anywhere from $35 to $75 for really nice ones. He had a couple rough ones, and offered two of them to me, for free. He said there was just too much stuff and he wanted some of the rough stuff gone. The two I got for free were in much better condition than the two (and actually a third even worse one that I had later found for $30) that I had previously rebuilt.

 

Fatman steering wheels did the same thing. Fifteen to twenty years ago, nice ones were selling for $800 to over $1000. I had sold a couple cars I didn't want to sell, and had let the fatmans go with the cars. I had plans to restore another car and wanted a fatman wheel to go on it. Again, I searched a lot, and found a few on eBad that were so bad and missing pieces that I got three bad ones for around thirty dollars each (plus shipping). About ten years ago, prices on those dropped like a rock. Now, nice ones can be had for under three hundred dollars. But I did okay. I had some needed parts, and made some other missing pieces. One of those three is now beautifully hanging in my garage, just waiting for a car to be put onto.

 

It could just be that those pedal cars got hot for awhile, and then hit a "value correction".

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Automobilia is another thing that's all over the map. I watched an online auction of a large well known estate recently. Lots of early service station signs, oil cans, etc. There was a square B/A oil can with pictures of a 1916 490 Chevrolet touring on it. It sold for CDN $6050 plus 17% buyer's premium and 13 % sales tax ($7998 total) ! Apparently there are about five known to exist. I have the sixth. Heck. Mine still has the original oil in it. Guess I should put it in a safety deposit box.

Chevrolet oil can $6050.jpg

Edited by J.H.Boland (see edit history)
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Jim, that auction houses sales are worth watching. They seem to have developed a niche market in service station ephemera, or else every barn in this area is stacked high with the stuff. Tin signs, described as repo fetched over $ 4000 recently. It’s fascinating watching the bids jump. Gas pumps etc also clearly restored or painted as no original ever was are bid into the stratosphere in the pre bidding stage.  I think it is cheaper collecting actual cars!

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Joe, I also watch Antiques Roadshow and it's sad to see how much some collectable items have been devaluated. Baseball cards, stamps, coins, matchbook covers, trains and pedal cars etc. aren't worth much anymore. As far as cars are concerned, Model T's are worth a third of what they once commanded, if you can find a buyer. Really nice Model A's can be purchased for $8.000. The items that we thought were cool to collect are just "stuff" to the younger generation.

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14 minutes ago, 46 woodie said:

 Really nice Model A's can be purchased for $8.000. The items that we thought were cool to collect are just "stuff" to the younger generation.

 It's sad, too, that many nice old cars, now affordable, are being street rodded. There doesn't seem to be a day goes by that original drivetrains aren't advertised for sale somewhere. They only wanted the body. I've overheard many conversations at car shows where they would install a SBC and Camaro front clip,etc. on a nice restored car.

I know,I know.To each their own. But if there's only a handful of survivors left, why ?

IMG_1212.JPG

1925 Buick coupe.jpg

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Antiques Road Show  and Pickers have one thing in common- their goal is to amuse and draw people to watch their show. Antique toys , like some cars, go in waves of popularity. Cast iron toy cars at one time were the rage ( this is 40 years ago) at the toy shows that were common in the NY Metropolitan area. there were at least 5 or 6 I used to attend each year with my friends Jim and Beverly ( Rae Kimes)  Cox. Now there are almost none, two of the best were held at a hotel near Kennedy airport.  How many people do you see supplying parts to restore old toys and pedal cars?  Certain ones will always remain popular - especially ones that are realistic looking compared to the cars they were modeled after in pressed steel . Most people want a toy that does not need to be restored ( due to time and skill needed to do so not to mention the cost of materials ( paint) and equipment ( bead blaster, spray gun, compressor to run the spray gun) . I particularly like larger pre war pressed steel toys - same skill needed to restore them as it does a real car of the same era. Cars shown here are all about 20 inches long and brought back to life by me from some pretty bent up originals. Just like the real cars - takes time, interest and most of all love and patience. the gray Graham I restored in 1972! white walls are my addition not original to the toys. All the toys had severely bent axles because kids would sit on them and push them along trying to go for a ride. Prices , value depends upon what makes you happy every time you glance at it when you walk by.

Right now we have a foot of snow on the ground and it is still snowing - looking at my toys and thinking about when, where I got them, the time spent bringing them back to the way they were in 1932-34 - can't put a price/value on that good feeling.

Well this didn't stray to far off topic..............................

Graham toy 1.jpg

AIRFLOW toys.jpg

graham toy 2.jpg

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Jim:

 The pile of 1925 Buick Standard parts I bought from Bend Oregon came from a 25-28 "restomod" project. They seemed to have had the car on the way to being restored and then changed their mind. I got the complete drive line, good running engine and 5 all new 600X22 B.F. Goodrich tires, tubes and flaps. I have not heard of their progress on the restomod. To get the 22" wheels (which my 25-25 had modified to 21" years ago) I had to buy everything . This included a crate of some 1925 Master parts as well. Most is still in a Buick Buddy's gararage in Vancouver Wash. I am still trying to get parts to those in need.

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26 minutes ago, dibarlaw said:

Jim:

 The pile of 1925 Buick Standard parts I bought from Bend Oregon came from a 25-28 "restomod" project.. I am still trying to get parts to those in need.

PM sent.

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Antiques Roadshow does lookbacks at previous shows and then gives updated prices.  Usually goes like “this item was appraised at $8k in 2006 and in 2020 it’s worth....”.  Sometimes more and sometimes less.  People’s taste and interests change.  A Michael Jordan rookie card recently brought $770,000.  Why?  I don’t know but it’s how the market goes.  Other than gold, not much else collected has a stable market.

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My father had a massive antique toy collection that I inherited 10 years ago.(about 10.000 pieces)  He had a tag on everything he purchased as to what show, the date and the price he paid. He purchased many of the toys at the shows Walt mentioned in the Tri-State NYC Metro area. To be honest they really don't do much for me and I have been selling them off. I was lucky if I sold the toy for about 20-15% of what he paid for it. I feel the internet became a huge factor in the declining prices. Now there is a selection and it is about condition. I took a lot to Hershey over the years and most of the sales were to older collectors, and again for about 10-15% of what he paid for them. 

Antiques are definitely a generational thing. I feel that a lot of these collections are being sold because the offspring have no interest in it and are going to sell it off anyway. The market gets flooded and the prices drop accordingly 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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I collect promotional model cars that were offered through automobile  dealers to help promote sales. Certain makes have kept their value, where as many have not. Value is what one is willing to pay for an item. I have seen mint red 1957 Thunderbirds from A.M.T. with box, where the seller can't give them away. The market has changed, and sellers are going to have to be able to adjust to that. It may come back , but nothing like we saw in the 1990's.

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Find Shackelton  Auctions in Ontario on the web   Some past auctions have the prices fetched posted. If not go through the upcoming auctions and find time to actually watch one. They are all on line only right now. Minitoys? and some other brands go sky high. Their bidders are from all over, definitely not the locals. Most auctions have a large chunk of  automotive stuff. 

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9 hours ago, J.H.Boland said:

Automobilia is another thing that's all over the map. I watched an online auction of a large well known estate recently. Lots of early service station signs, oil cans, etc. There was a square B/A oil can with pictures of a 1916 490 Chevrolet touring on it. It sold for CDN $6050 plus 17% buyer's premium and 13 % sales tax ($7998 total) ! Apparently there are about five known to exist. I have the sixth. Heck. Mine still has the original oil in it. Guess I should put it in a safety deposit box.

Chevrolet oil can $6050.jpg

 

The Ironic part is that one could buy a running 1916 490 touring for about the same price that the oil can sold for.... CRAZY, 

The can is cool, not 8K cool, but cool....

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Perfect segue to:

Terry's Rules of Collecting

1.  Three of anything is a collection. Two is just a pair. Maybe more than three is too many?  Once you have reached “collection” status, the collection must be nourished.  It must be properly managed studied, maintained and expanded so historic gaps are filled in.  The learning process has just begun.  Refer to rule numbers 2 and 8.

2.  Learn all you can about your collection. Learn the feel of the real thing. Know what it is and what it represents. It’s the history of what we collect that needs to be preserved, not just the objects. Take it seriously – this is history reflected in the objects left behind.

3.   Focus on quality - not quantity.  A single really nice item is always better than a dozen broken ones.

4.   It is really all about luck.  It doesn’t take a ton of money to be in the right place at the right time, just darned good luck!  But always remember, it takes hard work to make luck.

5.   Never buy to sell.  You may tell your wife what a bargain it was and how much it’s worth at Hershey, but if you never sell it it isn’t worth anything.  So – Buy things because you enjoy them first and wouldn’t mind keeping forever.  You can become a dealer later and sell off a few things to help pay for better stuff.

6.   Never buy to keep someone else from getting it.  You can enjoy things more if a lot of people collect what you do. The possibilities for friendships and lots of eyes looking for stuff is tremendous!

7.   You gotta have showcases! Put your things on display instead of in boxes in the closet. Collectors need showcases, or at least bare walls.  Put your stuff on display where you can enjoy it.   (I collect show cases too!)

8.   Share - you learned that in Kindergarden, right? show your stuff off  to others.  Share your knowledge. Telling your stories of treasure hunts keeps your collection alive. Discovering other collectors helps expand your horizons. There is so much to learn and so much to enjoy.

 

                           9.   Enjoy the thrill of the hunt. Remember when your folks told you getting there was half the fun? 

 

                  10. You’ll never have it all! Seize on that important fact.  Someone will always have  more        money than you do, and maybe even better luck.  The best thing you can do is find that person and make them a friend and enjoy collecting together.

 

Over the years, and the miles at the Hershey swap meet, I’ve learned that stuff does come and go - but the friendships last forever.

 

 

 

.

Edited by Terry Bond (see edit history)
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"You’ll never have it all!"  Dunno, some things depend on what you collect, think have every service manual, TSBs (techncal service bulletins), and parts book for Buick Reattas. Down to one Reatta though. Reatta is not an acronym.

"A single really nice item is always better than a dozen broken ones" may take several broken ones to make a single nice one.

"Never buy to keep someone else from getting it."  agree, you will probably pay too much. Corollary: never bid against yourself at an auction.

"Two is just a pair." With an AACA (really ?) eligible car, having one and a parts car is not a bad idea. Can be a problem if the parts car is too nice to be a parts car.

 

ps MBATR (Meanwhile back at the ranch) Don't spill a beverage on your electric blanket.

 

 

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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Terry, you stated it well, my friend. Life is short- we work hard to try to have a life we feel is comfortable , and the few toys we discover and manage to acquire are the icing on the cake. I was never jealous of anyone's collection - just so very happy and fortunate to be able to see it and in doing so it was an education on what was actually out there. One of my happiest experiences was when I got to see Pierce Carlson's collection in London , England. A great friend and an absolutely wonderful collection of pre WWII toys and trains of every kind. As Terry states it is the contagious enthusiasm and appreciation for the history as well as the beauty of the object that let's us cope with all the things we have to . Terry's rule # 8 says it all.

Edited by Walt G (see edit history)
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