American Underslung Postings Disappeared?

[Graham Man]

Peter,

   I sympathize with your position, and do not want to underestimate the value of what you do.  The information in that post on American Underslung could have been published as a book.  Unpublished pictures, hundreds of hours of member research and personal love for the marque... lost.  I agree we are not the "assigned" keepers of automobile history... but for better or worse we are.  

 

RIP

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[mike6024]

A Woolf

• Members
•  104
• 46 posts

•  

Posted November 1, 2020

This is one my favorite early American photos that I have collected. It is what appears to be a brand new 1912 American Tourist.  The Tourist was the intermediate size four cylinder car in the American lineup for a couple of years.  The earlier Americans were well decorated with two tone paint and lots of striping.  They didn't reserve the flash!

Alan

 

[ElectricBanana]

I’m not on here all that often and I rarely post. But, I will say that, in my opinion, the value of the option for the OP to delete a thread outweighs the objections. Quite a few years ago, I posted what I thought (and STILL think) was an innocent question. It started a flame war the likes of which I never imagined could happen on this forum. I did some research, found the option to delete the thread and immediately did so. And, like the American Underslung thread, someone started another thread asking what happened to the original (I guess the ‘haters’ weren’t through with me…). I will have to say that the moderators were very supportive of me and the action I took.

That said, I do agree with the poster who noted that some changes to the forum settings would be welcome. I think that the banning of a member should not automatically delete all of his or her threads. A better solution might be to allow the moderators to selectively delete objectionable posts while leaving other ones that contain valuable insights.

Just a two-cent observation from one of the rail-birds.

EB

[A Woolf]

Peter,  Thanks for looking into why the posts were removed.  It is a shame that an inappropriate comment can poison the entire group of posts on a topic or topics.  I understand why moderators  have to ride herd on the posters and make sure the discussions are appropriate for the venue. 

 

For the most part the information from the American Underslung topic is not lost.  The most valuable input came from a couple of posters who helped fill in the historical record of a couple of the cars that still exist.  Some of that was new information to me.   There were also several period photos of Americans that were posted that I have never seen.  The topic was going in the direction of becoming a research tool.  Many thanks to each of you who posted or commented or had questions.   

 

Alan  

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, A Woolf said:

Peter,  Thanks for looking into why the posts were removed.  It is a shame that an inappropriate comment can poison the entire group of posts on a topic or topics.  I understand why moderators  have to ride herd on the posters and make sure the discussions are appropriate for the venue. 

After reading all the posts, it appears it was beyond the control of the moderator, and is part of this Invision template.  Whether the moderator(s) can override the 'delete' settings or not might take a bit of research, or a liaison between the two to modify the program, or provide a backup history where it can be restored.

 

Currently, its like one kid caught talking out of turn who makes the entire class stay for detention!!

 

Craig

Edited February 1, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[George Cole]

For those of you who did not see the offending thread, the moderator did the right thing...and perhaps should have carried it further.  The individual appeared extremely upset that one or several of his posts had been deleted.  His middle-of-the-night thread subject was, Free Speech.  Had the moderator seen his initial post, I'm sure it would have been shut down as soon as it was posted.  Multiple people reminded him this was not a free public forum and his participation was subject to the rules.  His response to each post became more and more aggressive.  Several individuals asked him to chill out and go to bed.  He didn't, and continued his rant.  It didn't help that at least a couple of members appeared to be prodding him into further confrontation, and he took the bait.  Increasingly foul language was in multiple posts from both him and others who responded, until he finally began threatening members with physical harm.  At that point I switched it off and went back to bed.  Several hours later the thread and the offending individual were gone.  Although he was definitely the initiator and instigator, others contributed to his obviously foul mood.  During the discussion, at least one individual came to his defense and said he knew the offending individual personally and he was going through an extremely difficult time in his life.  He asked others to take that into consideration and not respond to the thread.  But several people continued baiting him.  If I had been the moderator, I would have probably given some of the responding individuals with a 90-day suspension for encouraging and participating in his aggression. 

 

From what I understand, the way the Forum is set up, once someone is banned, all their prior posts and threads are erased as well.  Sobeit.  That's beyond the control of the moderator.  Now the question is whether I will take it in the shorts for airing the dirty laundry?  If so, I'm a big boy...pile it on.

[8E45E]

14 minutes ago, George Cole said:

From what I understand, the way the Forum is set up, once someone is banned, all their prior posts and threads are erased as well.  Sobeit.  That's beyond the control of the moderator. 

As I stated above, I hope that change in the settings of this particular forum template can be rectified.

 

Craig

[George Cole]

We all have crosses to bear.  Some are heavier than others...and on some days they may seem unbearable. Please keep that in mind before hitting the 'Submit Reply' icon.

[StanleyRegister]

It is unfortunate that, essentially, power is given to the uncivil member to destroy the antique car work of others.  Thank goodness he didn't respond to any of the "Period photos..." threads, or they would be gone too.  I hope the flamers don't realize that they have this kind of power to poison and destroy threads, or they may post a trail of destruction before they are removed.

[39BuickEight]

I think some folks don't understand that general forum topics and discussions are not meant to be some sort of permanent part of the world we live in.   Just like everyday conversation, they are often fleeting.  Enjoy and learn while you can and then move on to the next conversation.  Great info can be had, but don't expect it to be here forever.

[John Bloom]

49 minutes ago, George Cole said:

For those of you who did not see the offending thread, the moderator did the right thing...and perhaps should have carried it further.  The individual appeared extremely upset that one or several of his posts had been deleted.  His middle-of-the-night thread subject was, Free Speech.  Had the moderator seen his initial post, I'm sure it would have been shut down as soon as it was posted.  Multiple people reminded him this was not a free public forum and his participation was subject to the rules.  His response to each post became more and more aggressive.  Several individuals asked him to chill out and go to bed.  He didn't, and continued his rant.  It didn't help that at least a couple of members appeared to be prodding him into further confrontation, and he took the bait.  Increasingly foul language was in multiple posts from both him and others who responded, until he finally began threatening members with physical harm.  At that point I switched it off and went back to bed.  Several hours later the thread and the offending individual were gone.  Although he was definitely the initiator and instigator, others contributed to his obviously foul mood.  During the discussion, at least one individual came to his defense and said he knew the offending individual personally and he was going through an extremely difficult time in his life.  He asked others to take that into consideration and not respond to the thread.  But several people continued baiting him.  If I had been the moderator, I would have probably given some of the responding individuals with a 90-day suspension for encouraging and participating in his aggression. 

 

From what I understand, the way the Forum is set up, once someone is banned, all their prior posts and threads are erased as well.  Sobeit.  That's beyond the control of the moderator.  Now the question is whether I will take it in the shorts for airing the dirty laundry?  If so, I'm a big boy...pile it on.

George, I also read that thread and thought “here we are watching a train wreck in slow motion”.  I hope he is ok, but totally support the moderators. 

 

just a thought, I can see under my profile my post activity...I.e. what I wrote on different threads. If the thread is deleted, would it pull those individual comments that are under my profile that I can see out and delete them as well? If not, couldn’t we start a new thread titled American underslung and people that are interested in it and disappointed to see it all gone, could look under their personal profile at the individual posts they made on that thread and we could re-submit them to a new thread. They are time stamped so we could even assemble them in chronological order???
 

 

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

I think some folks don't understand that general forum topics and discussions are not meant to be some sort of permanent part of the world we live in.   Just like everyday conversation, they are often fleeting.  Enjoy and learn while you can and then move on to the next conversation.  Great info can be had, but don't expect it to be here forever.

 

You are not alone with the perspective that this is just "everyday conversation".    I guess I would want to understand why - minus some catastrophe - I couldn't expect my posts to be here in 20 years?   Disk space and hosting is very cheap - as are 3rd party backup services.

 

Also,  many of the threads are pretty detailed research discussions where the information doesn't exist anywhere else in the world except for the brains of a few 80 year guys.   If it not the mission of the AACA to preserve this info,  what is the mission?

[39BuickEight]

3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

You are not alone with the perspective that this is just "everyday conversation".    I guess I would want to understand why - minus some catastrophe - I couldn't expect my posts to be here in 20 years?   Disk space and hosting is very cheap - as are 3rd party backup services.

 

Also,  many of the threads are pretty detailed research discussions where the information doesn't exist anywhere else in the world except for the brains of a few 80 year guys.   If it not the mission of the AACA to preserve this info,  what is the mission?

Most of the discussions are preserved and still here, and likely will be for a long, long time.  I am just saying that shouldn't be the expectation from folks having everyday conversation on a keyboard, that's all.

[alsancle]

16 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Most of the discussions are preserved and still here, and likely will be for a long, long time.  I am just saying that shouldn't be the expectation from folks having everyday conversation on a keyboard, that's all.

 

I don't look at a lot of the conversations I'm having as "everyday".  In fact a lot of them are "once in a lifetime" as far as some of the wisdom being imparted by guys much wiser than I.    If that wisdom gets lost,  it won't be long before the cars are not running.

 

My question is simply  "Why would we lose content, minus a MAJOR catastrophe?".       And since I assume the forum is utilizing a 3rd party backup service,   a disk failure is not a catastrophe.

Edited February 1, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

10 hours ago, mike6024 said:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:I2_zA7M31q0J:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

click this link

 

can you see it?

It comes up in a Google search for me. The thread is "cached." Google archived it.

 

 

Peter typically doesn't take banning lightly and bans only as a last resort so was surprised to see he banned this individual vs a suspension especially if he read the fact that the individual was "going through an extremely difficult time in his life". So apparently much more was said at some point that led to it.

 

I was another follower of that thread and hated to see it go. Hopefully some of the original posters can crank up another one and restore at least some of the content. 

 

@mike6024 when I click that link to google cache, I am only able to view the first page. Is there a way to view the following pages even individually.

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

 

Peter typically doesn't take banning lightly and bans only as a last resort so was surprised to see he banned this individual vs a suspension especially if he read the fact that the individual was "going through an extremely difficult time in his life". So apparently much more was said at some point that led to it.

 

I was another follower of that thread and hated to see it go. Hopefully some of the original posters can crank up another one and restore at least some of the content. 

 

@mike6024 when I click that link to google cache, I am only able to view the first page. Is there a way to view the following pages even individually.

 

I guess I’m struggling with how banning someone means all their content has to be deleted along with a bunch of other posters.  I don’t see the connection.   The thread in question was started by the poster  and he was a cheerleader but had little to do with the GREAT content posted by others.

[modela28]

I agree with you Alsancle.  I would hope in the future that the individual could be banned, but their posts / threads that are not in violation of the forum rules could remain.  The OP contributed very little information to the American Underslung thread beyond his stated appreciation for what others had posted.

[JACK M]

14 hours ago, mike6024 said:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:I2_zA7M31q0J:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

click this link

 

can you see it?

It comes up in a Google search for me. The thread is "cached." Google archived it.

 

 

I guess there are ways to find pretty much anything on the web if you know how.

[modela28]

2 minutes ago, JACK M said:

 

I guess there are ways to find pretty much anything on the web if you know how.

 

JACK M., can you see more than just the first page?  I went to the link, but cannot see pages 2 - 8.

[8E45E]

Page 3:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Cbio3yWUwhoJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/3/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[8E45E]

Page 6: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wXU2RoE2wT0J:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/6/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[8E45E]

Page 5:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pvkqbOybBJoJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/5/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[8E45E]

Page 4:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MKdL5fgYKaUJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/4/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[8E45E]

Page 2: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j7NumLMuEqoJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/2/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

Its not numerically in order, but be thankful for what we got.

 

Moderator, can all 6 pages be archived?

 

Craig

[MrEarl]

Thanks @8E45E, but I'm seeing that a lot of the pictures are not showing up

 

8 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Page 3:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Cbio3yWUwhoJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/3/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

3 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Page 6: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wXU2RoE2wT0J:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/6/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

2 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Page 5:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pvkqbOybBJoJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/5/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

1 minute ago, 8E45E said:

Page 4:  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MKdL5fgYKaUJ:https://forums.aaca.org/topic/352894-american-underslung/page/4/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

[AHa]

The pictures not showing up may have to do with people attempting to copy right them. A lot of guys want to hold the rights to pictures. So even though they are posted on the internet for all to see, if you try to move them to another forum, they may stay for a short period of time, but then delete themselves. They sometimes leave an address that if clicked on, goes back to the picture.

[8E45E]

9 minutes ago, AHa said:

The pictures not showing up may have to do with people attempting to copy right them. A lot of guys want to hold the rights to pictures. So even though they are posted on the internet for all to see, if you try to move them to another forum, they may stay for a short period of time, but then delete themselves. They sometimes leave an address that if clicked on, goes back to the picture.

I don't believe its copyrights, but the links got broken when cached.  If our moderator is able to 'copy & paste' the original thread to this website, I believe it should restore all the links in the process.  However, if the moderator is only able to perform a 'saveas', then we might have to upload any photos or links done previously.

 

Craig 

Edited February 1, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

Since it appears this was indeed a much appreciated and followed thread and since several are adamantly looking for ways to replace it, I'll throw this possible work around out to @Peter Gariepy and ask that he consider. While not real well versed in just what tools a administrator might have at his disposal , I do think he has the ability to reverse a ban. If so, perhaps possibly do one of two things. 1. Consider reversing the ban and turning it into a 30,60 or 90 day suspension in hopes BobinVirginas personal problems improve thereby improving his attitude or 2. Temporarily reverse the ban (which I assume would return the lost thread) start a new thread titled American Underslungs then select and move all the threads except for Bobs to it, then re-ban him.  As someone stated above there were far more contributions by others than by Bob and it is a shame all those are now lost.

And Peter, I hope I'm not stepping too far out of line with this suggestion, it's just that I hate to see such a good thread lost forever.

[Peter Gariepy]

Bad News:

The previous topic to which you all refer is gone.

The original poster was banned, and all the topics he started are permanently deleted. 

No, it can not be reversed or fixed. 

 

Good News:

I've started an entirely new forum dedicated to the American Underslung.  

Find it here:
 

https://forums.aaca.org/forum/197-american-underslung/

 

Im locking this topic.  The right place to post future Underslung posts is in the new forum.

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

3 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

Since it appears this was indeed a much appreciated and followed thread and since several are adamantly looking for ways to replace it, I'll throw this possible work around out to @Peter Gariepy and ask that he consider. While not real well versed in just what tools a administrator might have at his disposal , I do think he has the ability to reverse a ban. If so, perhaps possibly do one of two things. 1. Consider reversing the ban and turning it into a 30,60 or 90 day suspension in hopes BobinVirginas personal problems improve thereby improving his attitude or 2. Temporarily reverse the ban (which I assume would return the lost thread) start a new thread titled American Underslungs then select and move all the threads except for Bobs to it, then re-ban him.  As someone stated above there were far more contributions by others than by Bob and it is a shame all those are now lost.

And Peter, I hope I'm not stepping too far out of line with this suggestion, it's just that I hate to see such a good thread lost forever.

 

No. I can not reverse a ban. Sorry.