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American Underslung Postings Disappeared?


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There were at least 8 pages of discussion on American Underslung in the General Forum.  They seem to have disappeared or least I can't find them for some reason.  

If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

 

Alan 

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 I was looking for this thread last night myself and couldn't find it. I wanted to send the OP a PM and I couldn't find ANY of his threads or postings. It seems they have all disappeared so I don't know......................

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I think OP of that thread might’ve gotten banned and if so, perhaps all his/her posts got swept off the board in the process.

I’ve been told it happened to all my posts on another forum couple year’s ago after I ruffled some feathers and was asked to leave. That content removal supposedly included an entire lengthy thread I had started. 

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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What I remember as the handle of the original poster, is still listed as a member, but his list of activity is empty.

 

Forum discussions do not make sense as permanent archives.  When you have hundreds of pages under one topic, as some of the photo threads do, it is effectively impossible to ever again locate any specific item.  And when the forum operator can delete content without notice, there's no guarantee that what you see will last any longer than the next 10 minutes.  I'm not saying this is wrong - I'm sure the forum has never made any guarantees, and that's the universe that we're in.  It's just that this is not the correct place to store information, it's the correct place to chat.

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36 minutes ago, StanleyRegister said:

What I remember as the handle of the original poster, is still listed as a member, but his list of activity is empty.

 

Forum discussions do not make sense as permanent archives.  When you have hundreds of pages under one topic, as some of the photo threads do, it is effectively impossible to ever again locate any specific item.  And when the forum operator can delete content without notice, there's no guarantee that what you see will last any longer than the next 10 minutes.  I'm not saying this is wrong - I'm sure the forum has never made any guarantees, and that's the universe that we're in.  It's just that this is not the correct place to store information, it's the correct place to chat.

I agree. I can't tell you how many times I've come across an old discussion on a forum that would have been helpful to ID something, only for the pictures to be gone or some of the posts missing.

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This is such a huge disappointment. Can anything be done? I look at threads like the underslung thread as an important document where one can go to look at and gain deeper knowledge into the car. It doesn't seem right that one persons bad behavior could cause the whole thread to be deleted? Why not just delete his posts? Several of us had a lot of content in that thread, a lot of work building the thread to what it was.

 

The Hamb site routinely deletes photos from threads; I'm guessing because of the server storage required to keep them. It is a disappointment when you go looking for something only to find the pictures gone.

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"Never underestimate the unintended consequences of your good(?) intentions" or something like that...

 

... or "Think before you drink and before you..." .

 

You get the idea (I hope).

Life and world is full of things we may find or think unfair, but that's how it works and always has.

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Who was the original topic starter?

 

Political posts are rampant lately and tolerance for them anymore is near zero.  Banning them is the last recourse.

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I was having a hard time believing the AACA would delete a thread like the underslung. I really appreciate the explanation. Tensions are very high now with every thing that is going on. I understand how hard it is to keep silent. Everybody needs a place to vent their frustrations but we are all sequestered with no outlets to express ourselves. This is not the place to do it however. We must respect the rules of engagement. I wish to express my deepest thanks to our fearless leaders, who hold their own tongues and put up with all of us.

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4 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

What I remember as the handle of the original poster, is still listed as a member, but his list of activity is empty.

 

Forum discussions do not make sense as permanent archives.  When you have hundreds of pages under one topic, as some of the photo threads do, it is effectively impossible to ever again locate any specific item.  And when the forum operator can delete content without notice, there's no guarantee that what you see will last any longer than the next 10 minutes.  I'm not saying this is wrong - I'm sure the forum has never made any guarantees, and that's the universe that we're in.  It's just that this is not the correct place to store information, it's the correct place to chat.

 

I don't know why they couldn't be a permanent archive.    Do we know for sure the thread was deleted by the thread creator?   I think I would turn off that functionality if that is what happened.

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I followed the American Underslung topic at

the beginning, but not lately.  I agree that all

on-topic insights into that rare make should

be preserved on our forum.

 

After all, a few years from now, some member

may have acquired one and be searching for

information and contacts.

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10 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

I don't know why they couldn't be a permanent archive.    Do we know for sure the thread was deleted by the thread creator?   I think I would turn off that functionality if that is what happened.

Not yet, we don't.

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1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Who was the original topic starter?

 

Political posts are rampant lately and tolerance for them anymore is near zero.  Banning them is the last recourse.

BobinVirginia started that thread.

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I just did an experiment and found that, although I couldn't delete a post that I started, I could hide it.  There's no obvious way for me to view it again, although the error message that appears when I try is different from the one we see when attempting to view the Underslung thread.

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Years ago, the *compliant* posts of a subsequently banned member remained visible after the banning.  I recall some instances of the "handle" being visible with the word "banned" underneath.  I *think* I recall some other posts where, perhaps, "banned" appeared where we would expect to see their handle.  Because there was so much excellent content in the Underslung thread, could we do that again?

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A forum is not intended to be an archive or a reference tool.  Sometimes it inadvertently serves that purpose for a while, but a forum is meant for chats and discussions.  I think that this online discussion service is provided to us by the AACA with no guarantee of any permanence of any content, regardless of interest level or participation volume.

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It may not be intended to be an archive but it acts that way.  If I got banned because of a few bad posts it would be a shame if all the threads I started which many people have contributed to were removed.

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Interesting that the information posted here can and does disappear. I just assumed that the club would keep it as a searchable archive for posterity. One thing for certain, there is a lot of knowledge and history posted here that if lost could never be found again. I routinely search for past topics when servicing cars and trying to catch insights into common problems with platforms that have been discussed in detail.

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24 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Okay, I'll jog a few memories here and post the contributions I made to the original American Underslung thread.

 

The one in the National Auto Museum in Reno.

 

10hm066.jpg

Strat a new thread. 

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1 minute ago, edinmass said:

Interesting that the information posted here can and does disappear. I just assumed that the club would keep it as a searchable archive for posterity. One thing for certain, there is a lot of knowledge and history posted here that if lost could never be found again. I routinely search for past topics when servicing cars and trying to catch insights into common problems with platforms that have been discussed in detail.


99% +++ of the posts in this forum remain from 20 years ago.   I’m doing my best to preserve all posts. 

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1 hour ago, StanleyRegister said:

A forum is not intended to be an archive or a reference tool.  Sometimes it inadvertently serves that purpose for a while, but a forum is meant for chats and discussions.  I think that this online discussion service is provided to us by the AACA with no guarantee of any permanence of any content, regardless of interest level or participation volume.

If you have a thread that you want to preserve, you can view the page then select "Save Page" in your browser.  This will save the page and all its images in a folder.  If the thread is multiple pages long you have to do this for each page, preferably each page into its own folder.  

 

When I tried this the saved page did not display very neatly in my Chrome browser but was perfect in Firefox.

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A Woolf

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Guys,

The photo of the American Underslung badge is the one on my personal car.  I won’t give out a lot of information about it right now but suffice it say it is a later six cylinder American touring.  It is currently under restoration and I have decided not to reveal much about it until the car is finally ready to debut.  The car found me a lot more years ago than I care to think about but with the help of my father and brothers the car is slowly coming back to life. 

 

As best as I can determine there are about 32 Americans that still exist. They built cars that were the size of a Model T Ford all the way up to a big six cylinder touring.   The remaining cars are a mix of the different types of Americans.  There were in business from 1906 to 1914 and there are no existing records that I am aware of that gives the production numbers for American.  Best guess is they produced about 4000 cars.  And for the Stutz guys Harry C. was one of the principals of the company early in its life.  The first cars built by American were on a “conventional” chassis (one of those still exists).  The Underslung idea was not conceived by Stutz but by Fred Tone who was the chief engineer of the company at the time. Stutz left the company pretty early on and went to Marion. Another American innovation was the full floating rear axle.  As I understand it they never patented the idea and it was widely copied.

 

Unfortunately I cannot say I have driven or even ridden in an American Underslung. That should change pretty soon as the restoration of my car proceeds.  Likely the reason few cars are seen on the road today is they are quite rare and several of the cars are locked up in long term collections.  But there is some documented and anecdotal evidence that Americans were driven and driven successfully.

 

In July 1913 American Motors Company entered two Type 644 touring cars (six cylinders, 4 passengers) in the Indiana–Pacific Indiana Automobile Manufacturers Association (I.A.M.A.) tour. The tour covered a route from Indiana to California. Seventeen cars representing every automobile manufacturer in Indiana participated in the tour. They included a Marmon, two Marions, a Pilot “60,” two Haynes, two Americans, a McFarland, two Appersons, two Hendersons, an Empire, a Pathfinder “40,” and two Premiers. Two trucks went along to carry extra equipment; one carried an entire load of spare tires.  According to a more recent book written about the tour the Americans made the trip with few problems. The biggest challenge for all manufacturers was apparently tires.

The red touring in the photo early in this post is a 1913 Type 56 American.  It is a four cylinder car, 500 cu in. L head engine, four speed transmission, six passenger touring on a 140 inch wheelbase chassis. It was found by Dr. Frank Miller in the late 40’s.   It was a 7000 mile car that was running and driving.  The car was driven by Dr Miller on some of the early Revival Glidden Tours and made an appearance at the AACA Devon Show. In an article in the Antique Automobile Dr Miller reported: “The 5-3/8 x 5-1/2 four-cylinder motor built by the Teetor Hartley Co. (forerunners of the Perfect Circle Corp.) develops 50 horsepower at 1,000 revolutions. She can, and frequently does, exceed 65 m. p. h., and her large wheels turn so slowly that it is easy to count the motor revolutions up to 40 m. p. h. We drove her over 1300 miles on the round trip from Glendale, Ohio to the Devon Meet where we joined the Glidden Tour last fall. Returning from the tour we covered over 270 miles in one day’s run. She steers very well and her four speed selective transmission is a joy in traffic with its direct drive in fourth and a very easy drop into third gear for quick acceleration. The Rayfield carburetor compensates nicely from idling to full throttle and gives from 9 miles per gallon in traffic to over 13 miles per gallon over the road.”

 

Somewhere along the way the car made its way to California and has been painted red and black.  It won an award at Pebble Beach a few years ago.  It would be interesting to know how many miles are on its odometer today.

 

One of the last Americans built before the company went out of business was the Type 666 (yes that is for real) and only one still exists.  It is a six cylinder car, 572 cu in. T head engine, four speed transmission, six passenger touring on a 140 inch wheelbase chassis. That particular car was in Case Reserve Museum for years and is now in a private collection in Indiana.  I talked to the owner a number of years ago and he told me that he had just completed a 600 mile with the car.  He said the odd shift pattern took some getting used to and he had to replace a fan belt but it performed just fine.  This particular car is more preserved than restored and hasn’t suffered from a lot heavy handed mechanics over the years.

 

I think the takeaway is that an American is probably a good road car.  That assumes the car is original and well maintained or a restored car that is well sorted.  And that is true of any prewar car.  Poor mechanical conditional does not mean trouble free touring. The American Underslung is one of the most eye catching brass era cars ever built.  It is a shame that more have not survived.

 

Also if you are interested in more information about American Underslung Walter Seely wrote two different articles that were published in the Antique Automobile.  The first was in the July-August 1972 Antique Automobile (Vol. 36 No. 4) and gives a good history of the company and the marque. The second article was in the Sept-October 1980 Antique Automobile (Vol. 44, No. 5) and he tells the story of first seeing the four Americans owned by the Deemer family.  Seely made a deal with the family to restore the cars with understanding he would get one of the cars.  The car Seely restored and owned is in currently in the Bill Rich collection in Pennsylvania. Copies of these magazines were available through the national AACA office a few years ago and they turn up on Ebay from time to time.  

 

Alan

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