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Loctite 620 I mentioned earlier is something else. I know for a fact that a 1/2-13 will fail and sheer before it turns loose. Heating with a torch is the only way to get it to release. Seals gaps up to a 1/64 and is tough!! 

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2 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

One of my big patients. It’s worth the time to salvage these 6,000lb blocks! 3520 CAT

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I have worked on lots of 3512's, they were my employers go to genset prime mover when we were replacing older generation units on our aging fleet of RO-RO ferries.

Also used in 4 unit { one on each corner driving through C.P, steerable  legs }. re- powers of 4 of our " intermediate size "  ships. But I never even knew it was built as a V20.

What are they used for ? On a ship a pair of V12's is preferred to one larger engine. Like Aircraft , Ship designers like redundancy.

Actually as far as component size and weight goes these ones are easy. The 3600 series Cat is quite a bit bigger. But none of them are even close to the marine main engines I used to spend lots of time working on , on top of and inside.3606 Generator Set (Medium Speed) | Riggs Cat Equipment Sales & Rentals

3606 with genset, we use these as standby power on a few of our largest ships.

 

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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16 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 

I have worked on lots of 3512's, they were my employers go to genset prime mover when we were replacing older generation units on our aging fleet of RO-RO ferries.

Also used in 4 unit { one on each corner driving through C.P, steerable  legs }. re- powers of 4 of our " intermediate size "  ships. But I never even knew it was built as a V20.

What are they used for ? On a ship a pair of V12's is preferred to one larger engine. Like Aircraft , Ship designers like redundancy.

It’s a gas compression gen-set. The larger alternative is a tandem 3516 setup. The 3600 series is available after that which would I’m not tooled for. 

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We rarely had serious failures of genset prime movers on the ship. They normally run at a fair bit less than their design output in order to have a good safety reserve. About 75% or so of rated output most of their running hours. So at overhaul time we don't run into too many cracks etc.

Main engines are generally run at much closer to their rated output. Often 90 % or more . They use too much fuel to build in too much overcapacity. But a much more heavy duty engine than your typical Cat. Piston crowns and exhaust valves are the first things to go. Then cylinder liners. Serious failures are quite rare and then there is very little to salvage. If a piston completely fails the con rod { often close to 1000 lbs } can almost cut an engine in half. Every now and then the compressor wheel of one of the turbo's will let go. Even that makes a pretty big mess. You don't want to be standing anywhere close if one does let go. The company has started to change them at a lower hour total starting a few years ago.

 

Greg

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11 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

We rarely had serious failures of genset prime movers on the ship. They normally run at a fair bit less than their design output in order to have a good safety reserve. About 75% or so of rated output most of their running hours. So at overhaul time we don't run into too many cracks etc.

Main engines are generally run at much closer to their rated output. Often 90 % or more . They use too much fuel to build in too much overcapacity. But a much more heavy duty engine than your typical Cat. Piston crowns and exhaust valves are the first things to go. Then cylinder liners. Serious failures are quite rare and then there is very little to salvage. If a piston completely fails the con rod { often close to 1000 lbs } can almost cut an engine in half. Every now and then the compressor wheel of one of the turbo's will let go. Even that makes a pretty big mess. You don't want to be standing anywhere close if one does let go. The company has started to change them at a lower hour total starting a few years ago.

 

Greg

I recently dealt with a 3516 that was a tandem engine. It had an oil pump failure and the other shaft connected 3516 drove it until the crank broke. I had to metal stitch #5 main and #6 from heat cracking. The block actually twisted to the even deck .005” throwing the linebore out. I had to cut main cap saddles etc! 
 

Toughest linebore I’ve ever dealt with!! Took it .025” OS to straighten it. I traveled to see the crank installation. I’m 6’2” for scale 

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Edited by BobinVirginia (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The shop was building one of these..........not rebuilding.......they made the entire engine from scratch! Patterns, castings, EVERYTHING! I was more than impressed to say the least.

ADE80ED2-D2B9-498B-BBC8-93A5020302B0.png

Now that’s badass stuff!! 

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One of the engineers I used to work with is heavily into traction engines. His number one engine is a Canadian pattern, Reeves cross compound engine. I forget the exact size , but it is definitely a larger engine but not quite in the Case 150 league. A plowing engine so everything in the drive train is very robust. I got to drive it for a few hundred feet one day ,  a real workout !

 His number two is a 80 HP Case. It's significantly smaller than the Reeves . Also a project Rumley that mostly gets used steaming boat timbers. Like many Western Canadian engines it lost its undercarriage and was skid mounted for sawmill use.

Is the new engine going into a Chitty - Chitty style car or a airplane ?

 

Greg

 

 

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3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

One of the engineers I used to work with is heavily into traction engines. His number one engine is a Canadian pattern, Reeves cross compound engine. I forget the exact size , but it is definitely a larger engine but not quite in the Case 150 league. A plowing engine so everything in the drive train is very robust. I got to drive it for a few hundred feet one day ,  a real workout !

 His number two is a 80 HP Case. It's significantly smaller than the Reeves . Also a project Rumley that mostly gets used steaming boat timbers. Like many Western Canadian engines it lost its undercarriage and was skid mounted for sawmill use.

Is the new engine going into a Chitty - Chitty style car or a airplane ?

 

Greg

 

 

No, it’s a working machine completely recreated. Cool stuff 

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8 hours ago, edinmass said:

I was cam grinding pistons today........using a machine made in 1911. A first for me........and an enjoyable day.

Explain please.  Exactly what is cam grinding pistons?  Awesome engine by the way.

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7 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

Sorry George, I hijacked your thread!!! 

 

I don't get my panties in a wad over it...like some people on this forum do. We'll get back to mine when I've got something to add.  Right now I'm making plans to pull the engine...figuring out how I'm going to lift the off hood by myself, etc.

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Gentlemen....I’m pulling my off topic posts here down, don’t want to clutter up George’s post on his project car. This thread will be a reference for Cole cars in the future. We need to start a thread on cool stuff somewhere else.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, George Cole said:

Explain please.  Exactly what is cam grinding pistons?  Awesome engine by the way.

 

Most pistons aren't exactly round. They are a few thousandths smaller measured parallel to the wrist pin. This had the effect of minimizing piston slap. The machine Ed was using must have been one of the first made to do it since very early cars do have round pistons and I had thought the practice didn't come into general use until a bit later - in the 20s. That may still be the case since new innovations were never adopted by everyone as soon as they appeared.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Cam grinding seems to have really taken root after the introduction of the electric starter. The starter allowed tighter piston clearances since, by necessity, a hand cranked engine cannot be "tight". Aluminum pistons had much to do with this as well because they expanded much more than iron pistons - more so in period because it took a long time for the alloys used today to be developed. But, even though aluminum pistons were known as early as 1914, they didn't come into general use until much later.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Fixing any car is a simple formula of time and money. Just toss thousands of dollars at it, and it will slowly come together. 

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14 hours ago, AHa said:

Another formula is  patience, determination, and intuition. Where there's a will there's a way. We're not all filthy rich.

 

I don't know anyone here who I would describe as wealthy. The fact is today specialty repairs and service are just plain expensive. Hell, buy a gallon of red paint......the good stuff......it's about ten grand to paint a car now with primer, paint, harder, ect. Problem is the return on investment curve. It was never really positive. If you were lucky you got out of a car what you had in it after restoration. Today, you out number is 30 cents on the dollar for most restorations, and that doesn't include the cost of the car. Talent and ability will take you a long way........if you have the time and dedication. Add them all up, and few project cars will now be taken on.

 

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Ed, I meant no offense. Some people have disposable income and if they do they can throw lots of money at a restoration and as you said, it will eventually get done but not all of us hobbyists can afford to throw  money at a restoration and frugality is a measured response. The word, restoration, is a moving target. To go to Pebble Beach will cost truckloads of cash even if someone buys an AACA first place winner and just freshens up the restoration but not every car is or should be restored to Pebble Beach standards. All I'm saying is, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Edited by AHa (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

I don't know anyone here who I would describe as wealthy. The fact is today specialty repairs and service are just plain expensive. Hell, buy a gallon of red paint......the good stuff......it's about ten grand to paint a car now with primer, paint, harder, ect. Problem is the return on investment curve. It was never really positive. If you were lucky you got out of a car what you had in it after restoration. Today, you out number is 30 cents on the dollar for most restorations, and that doesn't include the cost of the car. Talent and ability will take you a long way........if you have the time and dedication. Add them all up, and few project cars will now be taken on.

 

Perhaps a major reason, the only Malaise era cars that have any value are pristine originals.  The cost of the paint materials alone cost more than one can get for what it's worth.

 

Craig

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3 hours ago, AHa said:

Ed, I meant no offense. Some people have disposable income and if they do they can throw lots of money at a restoration and as you said, it will eventually get done but not all of us hobbyists can afford to throw  money at a restoration and frugality is a measured response. The word, restoration, is a moving target. To go to Pebble Beach will cost truckloads of cash even if someone buys an AACA first place winner and just freshens up the restoration but not every car is or should be restored to Pebble Beach standards. All I'm saying is, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

 

No offense taken...........my observation is that 95 percent of the car collectors are at the hobby level. The serious trophy collectors...........they are the ones who take the giant hits. It takes EVERYONE to make the hobby. The hoarders who never show or drive, the road warriors who never show, the trophy mongers.......we use a different word, but don't want to get a message from the higher authority for using an objectionable  word........... and the non car owners who are content to voulenteer and help out. It takes every type of car person to make the hobby go. I have both extreemes in my garage...........barn find junkers to 100 point Classics. Both are fun. If I never see a show field with my cars I'm fine with that. As far as work goes.........we do cars to win on the field. All interesting and difficult challenges.  The trick to it all? HAVE FUN DOING IT!

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

George,

 

I was just going through some papers and ran across a note that Empire Motors in Texas casts manifolds, if they haven't gone out of business. Contact information is: phone 915 856 9607

       www.empiremotorsinc.com

      info@empiremotorsinc.com

 

They also do heads, etc.

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10 minutes ago, AHa said:

George,

 

I was just going through some papers and ran across a note that Empire Motors in Texas casts manifolds, if they haven't gone out of business. Contact information is: phone 915 856 9607

       www.empiremotorsinc.com

      info@empiremotorsinc.com

 

They also do heads, etc.

WARNING!!!  That company has an extremely bad reputation within a community to which I belong, in which a number of people have alleged that the unobtanium parts they sent for duplication disappear, full payment is required up front, and no delivery of promised goods in up to ten years.  That company had a previous or subsequent name of three letters, and is located in El Paso.  At least one single-marque club has denied them advertising privileges.   Not even photos of on-the-shelf products can be believed, according to a number of disappointed customers.

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Thankyou Grimy, I had picked up a flyer at one of the shows and know nothing about the company. That said, George is faced with the possibility of needing some manifolds cast. Can you make a recommendation?

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8 minutes ago, AHa said:

Can you make a recommendation?

Not really, primarily because I'm on the other side of the country.  That said, the wife of a longtime old car friend ("old" applies both to "car" and "friend") operated her family's boutique foundry in the Bay Area and now works for a company which operates several such (small) foundries in Northern Calif.  @George Coleif you're interested in following up with her, PM me and I'll give you her contact info.

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