64 electric cooling fan options

[64Rivvy]

Have been struggling getting the oem fan and clutch fan setup to fit my shroud and might just switch to an electric puller cooling fan setup.

 

Is anyone running A good setup they would recommend?  What electric fan are you running and how did you mount to stock radiator?

 

What are you using for a thermal switch to kick the fan on?  That's always been the challenge when I've added them to cars that don't already have a port on the thermostat or somewhere that can be used.   Thanks.

 

Raul

Edited January 26, 2021 by 64Rivvy (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Both heads are the same.  The port on the passenger's side that is used for your cold/hot light has a cousin on the driver's side head that you could put a sensor in.  

[Turbinator]

I’ve got a63 with AC. I was told to try a GM severe duty 1 ton clutch fan. I loosened my shroud and took off the old fan clutch and out on the severe duty 1 ton fan clutch. Went on easy enough.

I changed my thermostat to160 degree unit. Also, I put in and hid a 2 L coolant overflow tank. The radiator I bought is a US Radiator with an extra core added. Runs good.

[telriv]

You  can get a senser that slips in between the upper radiator hose at the radiator. Simplifies the installation. That plug Ed is talking about is in the back of the left rear head.  Good luck removing it after 50+ years.  I have a way with heat & wax that simplifies the job IF your thinking of going that route.

 

Tom T.

[jsgun]

I'm in process of this right now, so I don't have results. I went with I believe a US Radiator, and a Derale twin fan shroud. Bought a PWM fan controller from Auto Cool to run the fans. It uses the slip in sensor that Tom described. Had one on my mustang, it did good. It's a little overkill, but it gets hot in the desert and I lost a ford engine to overheating once. Going to run a power steering and trans cooler also.

 

The radiator is a little tricky, the "low profile" cap is within a 1/8" of the hood. I had to slice and bend the leading edges of the fenderwell skirts at the frame rails to get it to fit. I'll have to mount the shroud to the radiator, and put them in as a unit. Shroud fit the size of the radiator perfectly.

[64Rivvy]

Thanks.  Which derale unit did you go with?  I was looking them last night. I'm planning to keep the oem shroud bc i like the oem look and just mount a single or double fan setup on the radiator if I go this route. Will check out the PWM controller. Appreciate the info. 

[RivNut]

If you mount the fans in front of the radiator, you'll have to contend with the a/c condenser which is not symmetrical with the shape of the radiator.

[64Rivvy]

Agreed. I was thinking I would go with a larger single fan mounted to the inside of the radiator nestled inside the stock shroud. Basically you will only see it if you look down inside the shroud. Will function as a puller fan like the original. That will let me keep the stock shroud look which I love and enable me to figure out the stock fan later.  Sounding very tempting but still want to try one or two more things on the stock fan to get it to work. Trying really hard to keep everything original but might have to deviate here just to keep things moving. 

 

One other question. How long can I run the engine with no fan at all. For now the fan is off and i wanted to do a few short shakedown runs and let it really idle for a good 10 min or so to find any leaks or other issues. 

 

[RivNut]

Drag racers do it all the time,. Some don't even have a radiator.  Depends on how fast you drive and how much air is forced through the radiator and what the air temp is outside when you do it. You don't really need to shake things down until you're finished, why chance getting into a situation that could conceivably damage something. If you're like me, somehow you'd  get stuck in a traffic jam and sit with the engine running for way too long.

[64Rivvy]

Shakedown runs was probably dramatic. I was more going to drive it around my neighborhood and let it idle a while. Once I know everything is solid and i have no leaks from the new tranny cooler lines, radiator and heater hoses, etc, I'm going to pull the valve covers, replace the timing cover and water pump, and repaint the valve covers, intake, crossover and brackets.

 

Just want to let the engine run long enough to make sure I'm not hearing any concerning sounds etc. I drove it about 15 miles home when i originally bought it, and drove around a bit after that, but hasn't really run for about 3 years. 

[jsgun]

4 hours ago, 64Rivvy said:

Thanks.  Which derale unit did you go with?  I was looking them last night. I'm planning to keep the oem shroud bc i like the oem look and just mount a single or double fan setup on the radiator if I go this route. Will check out the PWM controller. Appreciate the info. 

Here's the shroud I went with: https://derale.com/product-footer/electric-fans/shrouded-powerpacks/dual-powerpacks/16826-detail

Here's my radiator: https://coolcraft.com/product/buick-riviera-1963-65-v8-aluminum-radiator

 

Stuff wasn't cheap, about $300 on the shroud and fans, $200 on the controller, $600 on the radiator. But I plan on keeping the car for the rest of my life, and I don't want to redo it ever again.

 

Car isn't running at the moment, so i'm not sure about how loud the fans are or anything. That's part of the reason I went with a PWM controller, so that it can run the fans slow without making them rattle like relays tend to.

 

 

[jsgun]

A quick note about the radiator, if anyone reading wants to go that route. It's a very tight fit. I had to remove the bottom radiator mounts, they raise it too high to shut the hood. I have some UHMW plastic tape (for high wear areas) i'll put at the bottom tank. At the top, a factory mount holds it in place, but the cap is about 1/8th inch from the hood. The filler neck is offset to the passenger side for some reason. If they centered it, and it was 1/8th lower, there would be no clearance issues, probably even with the stock lower mounts. Not sure about running a mechanical fan with it, I don't have one to measure it.

[jsgun]

1 hour ago, 64Rivvy said:

Shakedown runs was probably dramatic. I was more going to drive it around my neighborhood and let it idle a while. Once I know everything is solid and i have no leaks from the new tranny cooler lines, radiator and heater hoses, etc, I'm going to pull the valve covers, replace the timing cover and water pump, and repaint the valve covers, intake, crossover and brackets.

 

Just want to let the engine run long enough to make sure I'm not hearing any concerning sounds etc. I drove it about 15 miles home when i originally bought it, and drove around a bit after that, but hasn't really run for about 3 years. 

I had mine running for a bit, it wasn't a problem. I'd get a laser pointer temp gun to measure it, or even a metal cooking thermometer and lay it on the motor to make sure it doesn't go above 240 or so. 

 

For what it's worth, I drove a 67 mustang coupe daily for about 15 years. It was a beat to death pile, but I loved it.

[64Rivvy]

Jsgun. Very nice setup there. Looks good and you should never have to worry about cooling. Similar to setup i did when I built my Cobra a while back. 67 mustang is my fav year. My last project was a 67 fastback.  Driving that daily for 15 years is some serious dedication.  Hat off to you. 

[Bill Stoneberg]

Wait,  it’s a lot easier to replace the timing cover and gears with the radiator and shroud off.  And the other items you talked about too.  Do it all at one time otherwise you will be doing some things twice.  
I suggest a Flowcooler water pump. It has served me well in a prior 64 Riv that I owned.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[64Rivvy]

Yes when i pull it back apart i will remove  the shroud but don't plan to remove the radiator.  Looks to be enough room  I'm having my ac compressor rebuilt also so will remove all of that and accessory brackets at once.  I have the water pump and hardware i got from Russ.  Any recommendations on best source for the timing cover.  Think I need to get gears and a timing chain as well.  Thanks. 

[RivNut]

57 minutes ago, 64Rivvy said:

Yes when i pull it back apart i will remove  the shroud but don't plan to remove the radiator.  Looks to be enough room  I'm having my ac compressor rebuilt also so will remove all of that and accessory brackets at once.  I have the water pump and hardware i got from Russ.  Any recommendations on best source for the timing cover.  Think I need to get gears and a timing chain as well.  Thanks. 

The radiator  is simple to remove. Both hoses, and the support that attaches to there radiator core support, and the bolt that holds the shroud to the support bracket. Remove the support bracket and lift the radiator up and out.  Then the shroud, clutch, fan, etc. can be removed easily.  The only source that I'm aware of for a new timing cover is from Russ Martin or Tom Telesco.  

[BulldogDriver]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

The radiator  is simple to remove. Both hoses, and the support that attaches to there radiator core support, and the bolt that holds the shroud to the support bracket. Remove the support bracket and lift the radiator up and out.  Then the shroud, clutch, fan, etc. can be removed easily.  The only source that I'm aware of for a new timing cover is from Russ Martin or Tom Telesco.  

Don't forget to remove the transmission cooler lines.

 

Ray

[telriv]

Raul,

 

   DON'T forget the trans. cooler lines ALSO have to come off.

I was in on helping the design of the original replacement cover with Paul.  At the time he was selling them for $695.00.  AS he said you can run ANY intake manifold that's readily available, BUT you can't run with a bad T/C cover, which he is right on.

Caution on using a timing cover from Russ as he gets them from T/A & since Mike is in business to make $$$$ he chooses to use the least costly way to produce a part. I figured I would use Russ as he does give myself a small discount, sometimes.  It ended up the cover I got was poress. When I called about it I was told to call T/A & let them handle it.  Ended up taking it back off & fixing the area myself instead of waitng who knows how long for a replacement. To me that's NOT the way to do business since he sold me the part. As of now I DON'T know IF the problem has been fixed yet.  I tried to buy some of the defective covers from T/A, BUT he wouldn't sell them to me at a favorable discount since I know what's needed to repair the problem.

    When you get to that point take pics of the front of the T/C cover where the water pump mounts. The the rear of the cover where it mounts to the block. Then where the O-Ring goes in the top. What we are looking for is corrosion caused by the anti-freeze around where the cover mounts to the block outlets on the head.  The water pump area on the outer corners where the water pump mounts to the cover. AND where the water manifold goes into the top of the cover.  These are ALL places where the corrosion happens.  It CAN be fixed by going to a machine shop & having them mill/cut between .020"-.040" from the mounting surfaces of both sides of the cover. You DON'T have to remove ALL the corrosion. Just making sure the areas will seal correctly by putting the right pressure on the gaskets. You need to clean the top part of as much corrorsion as you can using a dremel tool & wire brushes. Where the water manifold goes into the top I've actually used 2 O-Ring seals IF the corrorsion was that bad.  I had to use wood clamps to hold the manifold to compress the O-Rings down to get the bolts started which really puts the pressure down on the O-Rings.  IF it's not that bad you can just use an inner valve spring shim, cut down to fit into the top of the cover to put more pressure on the O-Ring to help with the sealin  on the water manifold of about .030"-.060" to do the compression.

    Doing it the way I'e explained usually solves ANY leaking problems.  ONLY thing you have to do now is make a shim that goes between the water pump hub & the water pump pulley so the belt alignment is good. Which you can cut a piece of sheetmetal that's close to correct thickness to make up the diff. you removed from both sides of the cover.

    Hopefully I've explained what I usually do clearly.

 

Tom T.

[drhach]

So where do you get the good replacement covers? 

[64Rivvy]

Thanks guys. I just replaced my transmission cooler lines, radiator, condenser, heater core,heater hoses,heater control valve, heater cables, and radiator hoses, thermostat and housing recently.  Doing the tranny lines is one of several reasons i want to avoid removing the radiator if I can when I do the timing cover. 

 

Only reason I'm going to replace the timing cover is the PO broke off several water pump mount bolts and drilled some screws in there in a sort of hack job. Its not leaking but it needs to be addressed and looks like crap.

 

Thanks Tom for all the details. Will definitely refer to this when I do it. I need to get a list of all the parts I need to make sure I can do it without having to stop and order more parts. What I know I need is new timing cover, timing chain, replacement metal timing gears and gaskets. Anything else I need? Already have the water pump,new mounting bolts and gasket. Also judging from the look of it I may need a new crossover/galley pipe. I know there are some gaskets and o rings needed for that also. 

[telriv]

Raul,

 

   I have a used cover I could sell you I just need to do the milling on it etc. AND supply you with the spacer you will need. I have the gaskets & the O-Ring & other gaskets nec. & can also supply the1/4" bolts for the water pump. IF something happens with the bigger bolts you can just go to the hardware store & pick some up.  OR I could supply you will good used ORIGINAL bolts.

   IF I remember correctly I also have a good used cam gear & maybe a crank gear & chain. I will have to look to see what I may have.

What is this crossover galley pipe your talking about??? You mean the water manifold??  I should have a good used one of that also.

 

Tom T.

[telriv]

As far as I know new replacement covers are NOT available at this time.

 

Raul,

 

   I ALSO have NEW CLOYES OEM cam gears IF you would be interested in one.

Like I say "IF I don't have it you don't need it".

 

 

Tom T.

[gungeey]

 

Don't want to cut into Telrivs action but timing covers are being repopped , centerrville has them (though I think he got kicked off the site in a scuffle. An ebay search will produce 100 of them around 400each

 

 

425 nailhead timing cover | eBay

 

That was easy LOL

.

[drhach]

1 hour ago, gungeey said:

 

Don't want to cut into Telrivs action but timing covers are being repopped , centerrville has them (though I think he got kicked off the site in a scuffle. An ebay search will produce 100 of them around 400each

 

 

425 nailhead timing cover | eBay

 

That was easy LOL

.

Yes, they were mentioned earlier in the thread. 

[telriv]

Yes, they may be available BUT are they guaranteed NOT to be poures???  ADD IF they are who will cover the warranty IF there is one???

[gungeey]

 

 

Tom, the guy's just asking if they are available, is all. I'm not trying to sell him anything, don't get so upset. The fact is they are available. They could be porous, they might be better than original. I have no clue.

 

The poster... I don't think even has a NEED for one. He just asked.  I happened to be quarantined for the past few weeks stuck at home with the 'Rona. I'm not taking food out of your mouth. (PS Don't worry I'm fine). Don't worry, you can have your used parts corner. But being in sales myself I have learned that the WORST way to sell is by bashing the competition. Especially implying they might be porous , warranty doubts etc.

 

You chased out Centerville auto family this month.. just for that reason you are now on my blacklist of vendors along with CARS, OPGI.

 

It's whittling down to Gene And Larry D. Hell, kick the bees hive and maybe I will start selling parts here. Gesus Chripes. Anyway, Tom ..Luv ya...

 

 

[RivNut]

Did anyone think to ask TA Performance why they no longer sell the timing covers?  Isn't Russ selling the same ones that TA quit selling?  Thought that I heard that somewhere. Just asking.  No matter whether you are a seller or a buyer, it makes since to know your product.  

 

Why would you want anything porous that is right next to an oil passage? When is the last time you've successfully mixed water with a lubricant?

[gungeey]

11 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Did anyone think to ask TA Performance why they no longer sell the timing covers?  Isn't Russ selling the same ones that TA quit selling?  Thought that I heard that somewhere. Just asking.  No matter whether you are a seller or a buyer, it makes since to know your product.  

 

Why would you want anything porous that is right next to an oil passage? When is the last time you've successfully mixed water with a lubricant?

 Are you saying right now you know for a fact these are porous?  That there's only one supplyer on timing covers in the whole world?Your sure? Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited January 31, 2021 by gungeey (see edit history)

[RivNut]

You said "they could be porous."  I 2as saying who would want them.  

[gungeey]

13 minutes ago, RivNut said:

You said "they could be porous."  I 2as saying who would want them.  

 

Ed, we both always agreed you were better with math than reading 

[telriv]

    1st. off I'm not upset in the least.  AND Centerville got taken off this site, not because of myself, BUT for the flaming that went on for NO apparent need or reason.

    I WILL still deal with Russ if in fact he lets me. Centerville makes parts that are NOT available anywhere else in the WORLD. AND, Russ farms out the majority of parts that they supply. 

    A need is being filled as small as an audience is that has dealings with the "NailHeads". 

ALL I'm trying to do is send out a warning so most won't have to go through what I did. Take it as you may as I'm not trying to BASH anyone.  I have even defended T/A & commend them for taking on a project that was going NOWHERE because of initial cost of $695.00.

AND, YES T/A is the only one in the WORLD doing this.

    Same goes for Centerville. A small need is being filled as small as it may be, it is still being done/filled.  Who else is willing to take on something of this nature/magnitude???  It takes lots of $$$$$ to perform some of these tasks as simple as they may seem, & the market is small & the investment is LARGE for somethings that may be seem a minor task to some.  You wouldn't believe how many $$$$ was tied up in the beginning stages of "Mini-Starters" for our beloved "Nails". Will I be able to EVER recoup my costs????  It's been going on 20 years & I'm almost too the point of covering my initail costs,  BUT it has lead into other things like Mini's for ALL "Nails" at this point & has even expanded to producing Mini's for the straight eights. So a need is here no matter how small it may be.

Take heed of the warning as one may as ALL I'm trying to do is make some aware of the situation is all.

    Isn't this forum for giving MANY who are not in the "know" tips & tricks to help others going down the paths I've covered over the years, as well as MANY others to HOPEFULLY NOT make the mistakes I & others have made over the years that I've made so that ALL know what to avoid OR???

     I've been doing this my whole life, 60+ years so I DO have experience on most of the matters that DO arise.

Am I being bashed because of my knowledge????   I'm NOT trying to upset ANYONE as that is NOT my intention, far from it.

    When I reply to a situation I try to explain it as fully as I possibly know how.  SOMETIMES I am lax in my communication skills, BUT NO ONE DIED & LEFT ME GOD.

 

Tom T.

[gungeey]

Got it, but still confused:
You said: : 

 

"New replacement covers are NOT available at this time". ( When I posted that that they are a click away on ebay)

Then, All of a sudden you know they are available and who sells them....

 

 

 

___________________

 

As a reminder, Centervelle got taken off this site, for the"flaming" when you (Tom) told Centerville that He didn't know what he was talking about when it came to Terminator Bobs loose Harmonic Balancer. 

 

Look Tom, I could go on and on, But will not further clutter the board with this. If you have an other fact you'de like me to keep established with you. You can certainly message me. That's the same envelope above we were talking about Bob's aftermarket balancer you sold him. Peace, Steve

 

[Turbinator]

Steve, Tom may be confused a bit on inventory availability. It’s hard to remember everything.

What I do remember was Centreville flamed Tom first and accused Tom of not knowing what he was talking about. I know for a fact Tom had done his homework regarding my harmonic balancer mishap. Tom knew it the situation.

The young fellow at Centerville unfortunately assumed too much lost his temper and flamed Tom. I believe Centerville was kicked off because of lack of restraint and a measure of immaturity. Tom, did not cause Centerville to get removed from the forum. Thank you for your consideration.

Turbinator

[telriv]

The EXACT same thing happened at the V8Buick website also telling the owner of the website/forum he idin't know wht he was talking about. He's only been building Bucik engines & dyno testing EVERYONE for the last at least 20 years.