Selim 40 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Heard noises down my Buick super 1949. Went to check it out only to realize that propeller shaft housing is broken and need to be wielded . Attached YouTube’s showing it. Could it be wielded ? I can get a used one from 1951 Buick sedan , would it fit ? Or could I wield it ? Edited January 20 by Selim (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Bruce aka First Born 3,664 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I see no reason it cannot be welded back. Bigger question is why it is broken. Have never seen one broken. Ben 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 38 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: I see no reason it cannot be welded back. Bigger question is why it is broken. Have never seen one broken. Ben No idea why it was broken ! I got my car couple of years back and just realized this Link to post Share on other sites
avgwarhawk 4,457 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 It was welded when made. A reweld should work. Link to post Share on other sites
Fr. Buick 546 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Welding would be easy. The trick will be to get it straight and balanced... That thing spins fast going down the road. Link to post Share on other sites
37_Roadmaster_C 125 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Fr. Buick said: Welding would be easy. The trick will be to get it straight and balanced... That thing spins fast going down the road. Um... Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not the torque tube and therefore not spinning? The drive shaft is within the tube. Welding would be perfectly Ok, but the flange does need to be perfectly square to the tube to minimize stress and avoid future breaks... Edited January 20 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Bruce aka First Born 3,664 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 hours ago, Fr. Buick said: Welding would be easy. The trick will be to get it straight and balanced... That thing spins fast going down the road. ???? Ben Link to post Share on other sites
Smartin 1,941 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Weld it...it's just a tube. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fr. Buick 546 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 A tube with tight tolerances and no easy way to balance it like a conventional driveshaft that I could find in SoCal... Just a warning. I had my rear end rebuilt and the shop was a disaster. They cut the shaft in order to pull it off the pinion. Welding it back together put it off balance and gave me a noticeable vibration. I could not get it fixed or balanced, so had to find a replacement... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
37_Roadmaster_C 125 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 @Fr. Buick Please explain your reference to balancing a torque tube. The tube does not spin therefore balance is irrelevant. Now the shaft inside the tube is a whole different animal... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 12 hours ago, Fr. Buick said: A tube with tight tolerances and no easy way to balance it like a conventional driveshaft that I could find in SoCal... Just a warning. I had my rear end rebuilt and the shop was a disaster. They cut the shaft in order to pull it off the pinion. Welding it back together put it off balance and gave me a noticeable vibration. I could not get it fixed or balanced, so had to find a replacement... i am afraid i may face the same problem. is there any video to illustrate how to do it properly? i am going to weild it but not sure the shop will be able to put it back as original as they are not Buick experts at all. i am thousands miles away from the US and no one here has a clue about what they are doing! i need a video to illustrate what should be done Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 8 hours ago, 37_Roadmaster_C said: @Fr. Buick Please explain your reference to balancing a torque tube. The tube does not spin therefore balance is irrelevant. Now the shaft inside the tube is a whole different animal... any video to illustrate how to put the shaft back? Link to post Share on other sites
JohnD1956 6,227 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 This is something that is very rare and I doubt there will be anything on video. But your own short video gives some clues. To me it looks like the original weld is a 1/4 inch away from the end of the tube. It looks like the tube fits inside the flange attached to the trans and then was welded. To test this theory I would recommend cleaning the area as much as possible to ensure the weld really is back from the edge of the tube and if it is i would consider loosening the flange bolts and see if the flange slips over the end of the tube while the rear axle assembly is still in the car. If it does then make sure the rear axle is level and one or two tack welds while the flange is aligned by the bolts in the trans should give you the best alignment. At that point I would have to consider removing the rear axle unit to finish the weld. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Smartin 1,941 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 The tube that is to be welded is stationary and does not spin. So welding it should post no issue for balance. The propeller/drive shaft is INSIDE this tube. To weld this properly, you have to take it apart. It should be clear on which way it goes back together. Clean the metal and lay a big fat bead around the outside of the tube. Then put it back together. If you try to weld it in while it's in the car, you run the risk of burning/melting the shaft seal...because it is right there at the break. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 9 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: thanks could this be done without dismantling the whole rear axle unit? Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 12 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: This is something that is very rare and I doubt there will be anything on video. But your own short video gives some clues. To me it looks like the original weld is a 1/4 inch away from the end of the tube. It looks like the tube fits inside the flange attached to the trans and then was welded. To test this theory I would recommend cleaning the area as much as possible to ensure the weld really is back from the edge of the tube and if it is i would consider loosening the flange bolts and see if the flange slips over the end of the tube while the rear axle assembly is still in the car. If it does then make sure the rear axle is level and one or two tack welds while the flange is aligned by the bolts in the trans should give you the best alignment. At that point I would have to consider removing the rear axle unit to finish the weld. thank u very much. could this be done without dismantling the rear axle unit? Link to post Share on other sites
Smartin 1,941 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 No. You will burn the seal. It needs to be taken apart. Link to post Share on other sites
avgwarhawk 4,457 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 31 minutes ago, Selim said: thanks could this be done without dismantling the whole rear axle unit? It would be hard to get a good weld. I would pull the rear out and the tube off of the axle. Then weld. This is a integral part of your drivetrain as you found out when it broke in two. A good clean weld will serve you better than a patch job while the rear axle/tube assembly is in the car. Link to post Share on other sites
avgwarhawk 4,457 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, Smartin said: No. You will burn the seal. It needs to be taken apart. And what he said!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bhigdog 3,115 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) There is only one way to properly repair this. The torque tube must be removed from the car. The area should be well cleaned and de-greased. The broken pieces should fit back together, assuming the ham handed prying with a screw driver didn't booger them up. Once you have a good trial alignment the broken edges should be V-eed out to about 1/2 way through. It will be a bitch to clamp so use 4 tack welds to hold alignment before the finish weld. Assuming you are stick welding I suggest a 1/8" 6011 rod at about 90/100 amps, either AC or DC. 6011 is a deep penetrating rod tolerant of rust or dirt. After welding check the face of the flange for flatness. The weld may pull the face into a convex shape. If so, dress it flat with a file. It looks Like there is not much clearance between the tube and bolt holes so you may be limited by allowable weld bead.Take your time and do it correctly............Bob Edited January 21 by Bhigdog (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
50jetback 566 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/21/2021 at 4:22 AM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: I see no reason it cannot be welded back. Bigger question is why it is broken. Have never seen one broken. Ben Ben is right - why would this break? I think I would be trying to source a good used replacement Torque Tube. Link to post Share on other sites
Bhigdog 3,115 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 5 minutes ago, 50jetback said: why would this break? Poor weld, off spec steel, HAZ embrittlement, off spec rod or wire????...... etc, etc, etc................Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fr. Buick 546 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Oh, now I watch the video and see you are referring to the torque tube and not the drive shaft. Since there is plenty of give at the torque ball, you do not need to be absolutely straight in welding it back on, but you do need it to be strong, as all the drive and rear brake force and rear articulation of suspension happen at that magic little spot. Once taken apart, you will see a seal in there that is important and will need to be replaced. Where it sits should be protected from the weld material. There is also a thing sleeve that spins on the seal as the drive shaft turns. That sleeve may have some groves in it and you want to remedy that by moving the sleeve a little or taking it off and putting it on backwards, so that the seal gets a smooth surface. Use a good gear puller, hammer and pipe. This area is visible in avgwarhawk's picture. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 6 hours ago, Fr. Buick said: Oh, now I watch the video and see you are referring to the torque tube and not the drive shaft. Since there is plenty of give at the torque ball, you do not need to be absolutely straight in welding it back on, but you do need it to be strong, as all the drive and rear brake force and rear articulation of suspension happen at that magic little spot. Once taken apart, you will see a seal in there that is important and will need to be replaced. Where it sits should be protected from the weld material. There is also a thing sleeve that spins on the seal as the drive shaft turns. That sleeve may have some groves in it and you want to remedy that by moving the sleeve a little or taking it off and putting it on backwards, so that the seal gets a smooth surface. Use a good gear puller, hammer and pipe. This area is visible in avgwarhawk's picture. thanks for the tips my question now, can I take the tube out and do the work 14 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: It would be hard to get a good weld. I would pull the rear out and the tube off of the axle. Then weld. This is a integral part of your drivetrain as you found out when it broke in two. A good clean weld will serve you better than a patch job while the rear axle/tube assembly is in the car. the thing is with poor mechanics here in Egypt (5 thousands miles away from u), it’s alway an adventure to dismantle anything. I am afraid with their poor knowledge things could be screwed up more. That is why, I always tend to choose the easiest path not the best one though being afraid of bad surprises with my technicians here 🙈 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Can I use the tube of a donor car Buick 1951 sedan ? My car is super 1949 convertible Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 10 hours ago, 50jetback said: Ben is right - why would this break? I think I would be trying to source a good used replacement Torque Tube. I was told that this part in pics was bent probably due to an earlier accident or something I don’t know and that increased pressure on tube! Not sure about this analysis though! Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Found a donor car Buick road master 1951 sedan would the tube fit mine? I mean instead of wielding , just exchange it? Link to post Share on other sites
avgwarhawk 4,457 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 5 hours ago, Selim said: Found a donor car Buick road master 1951 sedan would the tube fit mine? I mean instead of wielding , just exchange it? Measure the length. Check the diameter of the nose of the torque tube. If it is the same size as the broken portion of your current torque tube I don' t see why it would not work. Replace the entire assembly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
g-g-g0 524 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Selim I am certainly no expert! I am sharing a picture from a parts book showing the breakdown of TORQUE TUBES......part numbers and years affected. Picture attached. It appears to me that Part Number 1338640 would be the correct tube for your application as it shows 1949 with no models identified. To me this signifies that the tube fits several models of ‘42, 1948 40 series and all models of 1949. The 1951 tube from the Super appears to be 1338317. I say they are not interchangeable. Again I am not the expert. My guess is that the overall difference between the various years and models is the overall length of the TORQUE TUBE. This length is CRITICAL and should not be altered. Hope this provides some guidance. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
g-g-g0 524 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 8 hours ago, Selim said: I was told that this part in pics was bent probably due to an earlier accident or something I don’t know and that increased pressure on tube! Not sure about this analysis though! In addition this strut/brace is SEVERELY bent! Appears to me that with this damage and the broken torque tube, the car was involved in some type of major accident at some time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Smartin 1,941 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 It looks like it's supposed to be bent like that. Can any other 49 owners check on this? If it was bent due to an accident, don't you think the metal would be boogered up in the bent spot? It looks like it was formed that way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 By the way what is the tube made of? Steel? Alloy? Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 (edited) Just started the job wish me luck any advice is welcome. Welding should be with argon or just electric regular wielding ? Edited January 26 by Selim (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Photos after dismantling what do u guys think ? Link to post Share on other sites
TexasJohn55 113 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 "Welding" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TexasJohn55 113 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 It will be hard to get it welded back in place without sophisticated equipment to hold it in perfect alignment. The critical part is to keep the flange faces perfectly square with each other. If not square, the tension will break it again. I would replace the tube AND the braces. John 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 22 minutes ago, TexasJohn55 said: It will be hard to get it welded back in place without sophisticated equipment to hold it in perfect alignment. The critical part is to keep the flange faces perfectly square with each other. If not square, the tension will break it again. I would replace the tube AND the braces. John Do u mean I have to change the tube? Find a replacement ? My technician is suggesting adding a sleeve ! Link to post Share on other sites
TexasJohn55 113 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, Selim said: Do u mean I have to change the tube? Find a replacement ? My technician is suggesting adding a sleeve ! Can you keep it square? If it were me, I would replace it and braces. Can you keep it square? The sleeve is not an issue, But it would be a brilliant method of squaring up the flange. If you had a tube sleeve which snuggly fit around the outside diameter of the torque tube, cut both ends square on a lathe, install it on the torque tube to touch the backside of the flange when in position to weld. Clean up both faces of the flange with a file and measure the thickness of the flange at several equidistant points to be sure it is square. Tack weld it at 4 points inside. Check that it is still square. Remove or hack saw the alignment sleeve so you can access to finish welding on the outside. Re-read this slowly to grasp the idea behind the suggestion. It could be done another way with the same idea for alignment. If it were me, I would replace tube and braces. John 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Selim 40 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 10 minutes ago, TexasJohn55 said: Can you keep it square? If it were me, I would replace it and braces. Can you keep it square? The sleeve is not an issue, But it would be a brilliant method of squaring up the flange. If you had a tube sleeve which snuggly fit around the outside diameter of the torque tube, cut both ends square on a lathe, install it on the torque tube to touch the backside of the flange when in position to weld. Clean up both faces of the flange with a file and measure the thickness of the flange at several equidistant points to be sure it is square. Tack weld it at 4 points inside. Check that it is still square. Remove or hack saw the alignment sleeve so you can access to finish welding on the outside. Re-read this slowly to grasp the idea behind the suggestion. It could be done another way with the same idea for alignment. If it were me, I would replace tube and braces. John Where can I find the tube and braces ? Any leads ? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
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